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Old 01-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #1
TDagen
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Default Plasma/Ni-sil sprayed cylinder liners

Has anyone heard of this?

The new 2013 650hp Ford Shelby GT500 is sporting an all aluminum block with plasma sprayed liners. They say it should be good for 150,000 miles of abuse.

They cycled the motor on an engine dyno for 250 hours between peak torque and peak horspower to make sure it was up to the task.

So whats the deal is it possible that this plasma or Ni-sil spray tech on our huge turboed 4's with the extreme cylinder temps may work well?
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:52 PM   #2
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That sounds REALLY expensive.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:57 PM   #3
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^^^ This but in for any info lol
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #4
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I mean, how often do liners fail?

Isn't it usually a bearing that spins or a piston giving up on life?
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #5
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It is expensive, I think I seen it being done for about $210 per cylinder. But if your going for big power this may be an alternative to sleeving.

This isn't going to be needed for most setups out there, but could be insurance for setups running 600whp +
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:36 PM   #6
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They have been doing this in sportbike blocks for probably 10 years now. I don't think it would help hold any more power, just maybe last longer. In the bikes they did this instead of a steel liner. Just Nic-Sil in an aluminum bore.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:21 AM   #7
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It must be working if they are doing the plasma spraying on the new 650hp shelby and its and all aluminum block running 15psi. The previous shelby had steel or iron liners.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:07 AM   #8
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Interesting, I would think that adding any reliability would be something we should all be looking at.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:24 AM   #9
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Porsche has been doing this since the 70s.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:28 AM   #10
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^this
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:11 AM   #11
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The vr38 from the GTR is also plasma lined from the factory. The only downside is that it can't be bored if you have problems with the engine and need to go to a larger bore piston in the future. The liner would need to be resprayed.

-Ty
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:09 AM   #12
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so from what i gather from this thread is its been done for years by other people but ford is coming out like its ground breaking?
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:20 AM   #13
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I think its just new for the Ford crowd not that they are breaking new boundaries
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:47 PM   #14
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The big companies that do this are in Wisconsin, US Chrome is one of them. I asked them about doing this to subaru bores about 6 years ago. They told me it is not possible because of the composition of our liner material.

had well over 60 motorcycle engine cylinders done by them over the years
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutnus View Post
so from what i gather from this thread is its been done for years by other people but ford is coming out like its ground breaking?
Who said ford is acting like its ground breaking? Ford is acting like they have a 650hp boosted car coming out next year.

I just happened to look at the specs of the all aluminum block and it sparked my interest. Anyone making cylinder cracking power should be interested.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Scream View Post
The big companies that do this are in Wisconsin, US Chrome is one of them. I asked them about doing this to subaru bores about 6 years ago. They told me it is not possible because of the composition of our liner material.

had well over 60 motorcycle engine cylinders done by them over the years

Ok cool thanks for the heads up!
Which one did they say isnt possible is it the plasma coating or the Ni-sil coating?
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Who said ford is acting like its ground breaking? Ford is acting like they have a 650hp boosted car coming out next year.

I just happened to look at the specs of the all aluminum block and it sparked my interest. Anyone making cylinder cracking power should be interested.
I don't think this process will do anything for you when it comes to cracking a cylinder. This process simply allows the liner to be sprayed on yielding better heat transfer and mitigating the issue of thermal expansion differences between the block/dissimilar liner. If you somehow cast an EJ block with no iron liner, and alum bores I have a feeling it would be weaker than a sleeved block.
I doubt ford did this due to mechanical strength. The superior heat transfer helps the integrity of the oil film and allows you to run a tighter PTW clearance because the block more effectively pulls heat from the pistons. This is attractive from an OEM perspective.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazykev View Post
They have been doing this in sportbike blocks for probably 10 years now. I don't think it would help hold any more power, just maybe last longer. In the bikes they did this instead of a steel liner. Just Nic-Sil in an aluminum bore.
Closer to 30 years ago in mx bike applications. Better heat transfer, wears many times longer than sleeves, weights less. Weight is a major concern in mx bikes.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:08 PM   #19
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Cool, didn't know that. Huh, I am K Meyer.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSTi05 View Post
I don't think this process will do anything for you when it comes to cracking a cylinder. This process simply allows the liner to be sprayed on yielding better heat transfer and mitigating the issue of thermal expansion differences between the block/dissimilar liner. If you somehow cast an EJ block with no iron liner, and alum bores I have a feeling it would be weaker than a sleeved block.
To add to this ^^ or perhaps add my experience with NiCom or NikaSil, it is not so much the heat transfer properties that add value or benefit, but rather the increased hardness it imparts to the original liner material (cylinder bore).

It makes the bores a lot more durable, and less likely to score and develop grooves, which then leads to poor ring seal, and blowby.

I would do this in a heartbeat if it could be done to our liners.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #21
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I was told by two shops (that build Subie motors), that the cylinder wall of my late model 2.5L engine is hardened and one compared it to a Porsche engine cylinder.
I was told that if I honed it I would loose some of the hardened surface.
The other agreed it was hardened and suggested it was, or was like, Nickel-Silicon-Carbide (Nikasil/Nicosil/NiCaSil).
Now, isn't it common to bore cylinders .25mm over and more? Aren't these just ordinary ductile iron sleeves and nothing fancy?

Last edited by Scargod; 02-07-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:16 AM   #22
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GTRs make in the excess of 1500whp with OEM Plasma coated liners

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Old 02-08-2013, 05:52 AM   #23
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I thought we were talking Subarus... I had chrome lined cylinders on my Porsche, too. Doesn't get me any closer to a straight answer.
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