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Old 02-11-2013, 02:51 PM   #1
808hi
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DGM

Default Rich code

. All the mods i have are as listed
Invidia bellmouth dp,
Q300
Cobb sf intake
Cobb ap running stage 2 ots map acn 91+cobb sf high wastegate (wasnt reaching target boost on normal wastegate map)
Kartboy shortshifter with front and rear bushings
Group n motor mount
Kartboy pitch stop mount
Defi boost
Aem uego wideband

My ap says im throwing a super rich code p0172 or something like that. When on the throttle at about 10% the car just feels very surgey and boggy.. The ots maps arent supposed to make your car run that right, right..? Thanks for the help! Its wierd because my car was running perfectly fine until today.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #2
808hi
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DGM

Default

If it helps at all i just switched to full synthetic oil for my 30k which i did a day ago
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:07 PM   #3
jebjkey
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You need datalogs (with WB AFR preferably) for anybody to really help you.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:57 PM   #4
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
. All the mods i have are as listed
Invidia bellmouth dp,
Q300
Cobb sf intake
Cobb ap running stage 2 ots map acn 91+cobb sf high wastegate (wasnt reaching target boost on normal wastegate map)
Kartboy shortshifter with front and rear bushings
Group n motor mount
Kartboy pitch stop mount
Defi boost
Aem uego wideband

My ap says im throwing a super rich code p0172 or something like that. When on the throttle at about 10% the car just feels very surgey and boggy.. The ots maps arent supposed to make your car run that right, right..? Thanks for the help! Its wierd because my car was running perfectly fine until today.
Hi there. Sorry for your troubles.

This particular code doesn't have anything to do with the map as long as you are running the correct map for your intake and injectors. With the +SF intake map you stated in this case, this would obviously be for the Cobb SF intake (which you have) and the stock injectors (which presumably you have).

So, if this is the case, then this means you have some sort of mechanical fueling issue that is causing the long-term fuel trims (A/F Learning 1) to remove fuel due to a perceived rich condition. To get this code, the trims have to be quite extreme, which means you have potentially a major issue. Connect the Accessport to the car and go under the "Live Data" function in the Accessport's "Monitor" menu and report back what each of the A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values show. Where the extreme value(s) are (for A,B,C,D) can sometimes give you a clue as to what you are dealing with.

The most common issues with extreme negative fuel trims are going to be a boost leak or bad front o2. For the former, a pressure or smoke test of the intake tract is your best bet. For the latter, since you have a wideband o2 sensor, check the "A/F Sens 1 Ratio" reading (front o2) against your wideband reading at idle. Of course, any number of other fueling issues can also cause extreme trims.

Bill
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:23 PM   #5
808hi
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DGM

Default

Should i be throwing a cel if im having a leak or bad o2?
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:43 PM   #6
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
Should i be throwing a cel if im having a leak or bad o2?
With the P0172 or P0171 code, you have some kind of extreme fueling-related issue. Certainly, that could be a post-MAF intake tract leak or it could be a bad front o2, or it could be some other mechanical fueling issue. Bad MAF sensor is also another common one, but usually you see extreme positive fuel trims (not negative) in that case.

You won't always get a CEL with the any of the above 3 mentioned problems, but any one of them can certainly cause P0172 (system too rich) or P0171 (system too lean) if it is extreme enough. But, as mentioned, it could also be something else fueling related.

Best thing to do right now is to look at the A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values and to check your wideband reading against the front o2 sensor as mentioned earlier. Avoid doing any heavy throttle pulls given this issue - drive the car very conservatively if you need to drive it. Given that this is a fairly newer car (2011 STi), intake tract leak is probably the most likely scenario. Best way to rule that in/out is via a pressure or smoke test of the intake tract.

Bill
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #7
808hi
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Default

1a -3.9/3.1 1b 1.5/1.5 1c-5.2/-5.2 1d -2.3/-2.3
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #8
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
1a -3.9/3.1 1b 1.5/1.5 1c-5.2/-5.2 1d -2.3/-2.3
Did you have the check engine light when you pulled these values or did you reset the ECU (or disconnect the car's battery) at some point before?

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #9
808hi
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Default

No, i didnt do any of that. I just recently switched to the low wg map and im still running quiet rich not throwing any codes anymore on ap. car is still running boggy it was recommended i switch to the low wg map along with setting up a future protune which im doing soon. Im also thinking that a ebcs would help out with the boost issues.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #10
sidewayz
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That's not enough correction to trigger a cel.


Correct me if I'm wrong but it needs - + 15 to trigger.. Reset it, drive for a day and report back.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #11
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
No, i didnt do any of that. I just recently switched to the low wg map and im still running quiet rich not throwing any codes anymore on ap. car is still running boggy it was recommended i switch to the low wg map along with setting up a future protune which im doing soon. Im also thinking that a ebcs would help out with the boost issues.
Reflashing a map is the same as resetting the ECU, so your fuel trims (and the CEL) were cleared at the same time. The A/F Learning 1 values are not extreme yet because it can take some time for them to populate accurately after a reset. I would continue driving around (normally - no WOT or heavy throttle pulls) and see if the CEL comes back. When it does, do not reflash any maps or reset the ECU - just check the A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D values.

Because on a car this new the most likely problem will be post-MAF intake tract leaks, I would highly consider getting a pressure or smoke test of intake tract done.

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:57 AM   #12
808hi
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DGM

Default

Thanks so much again for the info and help. Would getting a protune eliminate this problem? Or would i still have to get a leak test? The car seems to be cutting out pretty bad right now
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #13
808hi
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DGM

Default

AF1C is -24.6/-24.6 AF1D is -5.8/-5.8
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:14 AM   #14
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
Thanks so much again for the info and help. Would getting a protune eliminate this problem? Or would i still have to get a leak test? The car seems to be cutting out pretty bad right now
You do have the stock injectors correct? Can you go to the Accessport's "Tune" menu and select "Show Current Map" and read back what exact map name is shown in the reflash slot and what exact map name is shown in the realtime slot?

As long as you have the stock injectors and are running the correct original unmodified off-the-shelf (OTS) map for the Cobb SF intake (+SF), then this is not a map/tune issue but a mechanical one.

Is the -24% A/F Correction 1 you are seeing at idle? Is it fairly constant at that extreme or is that just the most extreme value you saw? Going too rich at idle doesn't really fit with an intake tract leak.

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:20 AM   #15
808hi
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DGM

Default

Thanks bill Correct i do have stock injectors. The current map im running in real time/ reflash (same map) stage 2+ SF ACN91 V300 boost select LWG
Currently im on a roadtrip cruising at 65 mph and AF1C is currently holding at -23 the most extreme ive seen it is -25
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:28 AM   #16
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
Thanks bill Correct i do have stock injectors. The current map im running in real time/ reflash (same map) stage 2+ SF ACN91 V300 boost select LWG
Currently im on a roadtrip cruising at 65 mph and AF1C is currently holding at -23 the most extreme ive seen it is -25
Well, in that scenario, it could potentially be an intake tract leak. Check to see what A/F Correction 1 looks like at idle (i.e. car in neutral with foot off gas).

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:45 AM   #17
808hi
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DGM

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AF correction 1 at idle holds at -25 /0

Would a intake tract leak lead to catastrophic engine failure / something i should get fixed ASAP? or is it something quick to fix? Im currently on a roadtrip headed to florida for a change of station(military)
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:54 AM   #18
808hi
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DGM

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Just threw a CEL AP is reading codes P0172 system too rich bank one, P0113 intake air temp circuit high input
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:16 PM   #19
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
Just threw a CEL AP is reading codes P0172 system too rich bank one, P0113 intake air temp circuit high input
Sounds like something is up with the MAF sensor assembly or associated connector/wiring. The intake air temp sensor is housed in the same piece as the MAF sensor. I would remove the MAF sensor connector and make sure there's not any dirt or other crud in the wiring connector end and MAF end (i.e. where the connector plugs in). Use a little bit of compressed air to clean that out (but do not do that on the actual MAF sensor or intake temp sensor portion - i.e. the part that fits inside the intake). Remove the sensor and make sure the gasket is not damaged. Also, check the MAF wiring around the connector and make sure there's no obvious damage on both sides. Reinstall and make sure the connector is securely plugged into the MAF sensor.

Bill
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #20
808hi
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DGM

Default

Thanks again bill youre the man. I will keep u updated
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #21
808hi
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DGM

Default

Pulled over in a rest stop and figured out the problem, maf was fried. Gotta get a new one. Any guesses on why this happened? I dont think it would be the intake because thats the whole reason for the ots map... But then again would i be wrong? I really cant afford to fry another one :/
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:44 PM   #22
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by 808hi View Post
Pulled over in a rest stop and figured out the problem, maf was fried. Gotta get a new one. Any guesses on why this happened? I dont think it would be the intake because thats the whole reason for the ots map... But then again would i be wrong? I really cant afford to fry another one :/
If you are sure that there's a problem with the MAF, it could have happened during the install. Make sure you disconnect the negative terminal of the battery whenever you are doing any kind of work on the car. Also make sure that the connectors are secure when doing any kind of work with sensors/etc. and that you are handling the MAF sensor carefully when removing/installing the MAF sensor.

Bill
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