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Old 01-30-2013, 11:20 PM   #1
CygnusPerformance
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Default Swaybars & Endlinks - Impreza/WRX/STi Version

The following post is intended to help you better understand everything you need to know about swaybars and endlinks for the GD & GR Chassis Impreza/WRX/STi.


What are swaybars and why do you want to upgrade them?
Stiffer aftermarket swaybars are very beneficial to the handling of WRXs and STis. Upgraded swaybars are the best suspension modification you can make to these cars for the money. Like most cars, STis and WRXs come from the factory with a relatively soft suspension set up that is prone to understeer. This leaves a lot of room for improvement. If you are a performance minded driver who wants to get the best handling out of your car swaybars are a great place to start. A swaybar itself is a very simple part, but figuring out what type and size to buy is not so simple. There is no easy answer here, but in this post I hope to guide you in the right direction.

The purpose of a swaybar is to increase the suspension's roll stiffness. The stiffer the swaybar, the more resistant to body roll it becomes. This means that with stiffer swaybars your car will be flatter through corners, and your car will have more precise handling. Two of the other main benefits of upgraded swaybars are being able to fine tune your suspension to reduce understeer, and being able to increase overall grip though retaining more negative camber. Retaining more front negative camber (reducing dynamic alignment change) is particularly beneficial on cars like the WRX and STi because they use MacPherson strut front suspension (as apposed to double wishbone suspension). Double wishbone suspension is usually designed with a shorter upper A arm which allows greater dynamic negative camber gain as the suspension jounces than is possible with MacPherson struts. With MacPherson struts the fixed upper mounting position of the strut limits dynamic negative camber gain and actually causes positive camber gain once the suspension compresses past a certain point. During hard cornering if the front outside tire (the one with the majority of the weight on it) does not have enough negative camber the weight shifts to the outside edge of this tire. This results in much less traction than you would have if weight were distributed evenly across the width of the tire. For this reason cars that use MacPherson strut suspension will greatly benefit from reduced body roll and stiffer suspension. So to sum it up, a stiffer swaybar will help prevent dynamic positive camber gain for better grip, help keep the car flatter for better handling and help you tune your suspension to make your car feel more neutral.


Swaybar Sizes
I am often asked, "what size swaybar is best?" There is no single answer to this question. The answer will depend on many factors including what you use your car for, what other mods you have (if any), what your driving style is and what surface you'll be primarily driving on. Some people assume bigger (and more expensive) is always better. This is an incorrect assumption. If stiffer were always better the cars with the highest limits would have no suspension at all. Going with bars that are too large can be counterproductive. If a swaybar is too stiff it will not allow the suspension to properly do its job. For example, going with a 29mm front bar on a GD STi driven on a street with less than a perfect surface will cause the front tires to skip across uneven pavement resulting in less traction and poor handling. A 27mm rear bar on the same car may cause the rear inside tire to lift and will probably induce a lot of oversteer without the proper surface, tires and supporting suspension mods. These bars have their place, but for a car driven on everyday roads they are probably overkill. On the other side of the spectrum a bar that is too soft will not have enough benefit. The car will still have excessive body roll and you may not get the results you are looking for. Also keep in mind that if you have aftermarket springs or coilovers this will affect the size bars you'll need. Stiff coilovers will require a softer swaybar since they too resist body roll.

One nice thing about stiffer swaybars is the majority of the time they won't give you any increased noise, harshness or vibration. The only time when added harshness will be apparent is when you are driving on an uneven road where you are hitting bumps that cause the left and right wheels to move independently. If you drive mainly on well paved roads chances are the only time you'll notice your upgraded swaybars will be when you are going around a corner. If you frequently drive on rough, uneven roads it is important to keep in mind that stiffer swaybars will mean added harshness. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't upgrade your swaybars. It just means that you may want to go with a smaller bar than you would otherwise.

The 2002-2007 WRX and 2004-2007 STi share the same chassis and will respond similarly to the same combinations of swaybars. The same is true for the 2008+ WRX & STi. An important thing to note is that comparing the size of a 08+ swaybar to an 02-07 swaybar is not an apples to apples comparison. A smaller diameter 08+ bar will be equivalent to a larger diameter 02-07 bar. The 08+ 20mm bars are roughly equivalent to the 02-07 22mm bars, the 08+ 22mm bars are roughly equivalent to the 02-07 24mm bars and the 08+ 24mm bars are roughly equivalent to the 02-07 27mm bars. Lets look at some popular combinations of swaybars for these cars going from the softest to stiffest combination. It will be impossible to address all of the possible scenarios here, so if you have any specific questions feel free to reply to this thread or ask me privately if you prefer.

**Please note this section has been edited since the original posting to eliminate any reference to brand names. This was done to keep this post completely neutral so that it could stay in the tech section. Brand related info can sometimes be construed as "vending" by the mods.**


1) 22mm front & rear 02-07
This combo doesn't apply to the 08+ cars since ******** doesn't make a 20mm front bar for these cars. This is a very mild combo, but it is still a great improvement over stock. This is perfect for someone who drives on bumpy roads and doesn't want to deal with much increased harshness.

2) 22mm front / 20mm rear 08+ or 24mm front / 22mm rear 02-07
This combination is going to work well on street driven cars. It is conservative enough that it will be comfortable on almost any surface, but it still adds enough stiffness that handling will be greatly improved. The fact that the front bar is slightly larger than the rear bar will keep the car's natural tendency to understeer more than equal sized bars would. This is a good combo for someone who wants stiffer swaybars, but is worried about added harshness or going too extreme.

3) 22mm front / 24mm rear 02-07
Here is another combo that only applies to 02-07 cars. It may seem like an odd combination, but it is a combination that has been proven in street tire autocross. I'd only recommend a combination like this for cars that are using stiff coilovers. The rear bar will help make the car rotate while the soft front bar will work in conjunction with stiffer springs to provide the best overall grip possible. This is an ideal setup for the intricate low speed turns in autocross.

4) 22mm front & rear 08+ or 24mm front & rear 02-07
This is my personal choice for the street and street tire autocross. The equal sized rear bar gives the car a more neutral feel. It really does a lot to counteract the car's tendency to understeer. I use this combination on my daily driver and with adjustable swaybars it can be set up to perform well on the street, track and autocross course.

5) 24mm front / 20mm rear 08+ or 27mm front / 22mm rear 02-07
The large front bar will provide a great turn in feel with this combo while the small rear bar will keep the car from oversteering much. If you want to keep all four wheels on the ground and have a solid turn in feel this may be a combo to consider. To me this isn't a very neutral feeling combo. When I drove a car with this combination it understeered quite a bit.

6) 24mm front / 22mm rear 08+ or 27mm front / 24mm rear 02-07
This is another popular combination... Probably just as popular as combination #4. The stiffer front bar will give the car an improved turn in feel over combination #4. I find that this combination doesn't feel as neutral on street tires as combination #4. To me it feels like it gives you a flatter, better turn in feel at the expense of over all grip. If you are on a smooth track with grippy tires this is a different story. This combo is perfect for someone who does track days or time attacks. It is also the preference of many for daily driving. It does give more noticeably better handling than combo #4 for daily driving. It just doesn't suite my personal driving style as well as #4 does. National autocross champions have also confirmed that a bar this large in street tire autocross tends to make the car understeer. The fastest street tire autocross STis in the country for the past few years have used very soft front bars in combination with very stiff coilovers.

7) 24mm front & rear 08+ or 27mm front & rear 02-07
This combo is extreme. This rear bar will likely lift the rear inside tire when you go around corners fast. It is really only suited for cars racing on a smooth surface. If you have a dedicated racecar on race tires this might be the perfect combination for you. I don't typically recommend it for daily drivers though.

Whatever combination you decide to go with remember to drive conservatively and not push the limits until you become accustomed to your car's new handling characteristics. Changing swaybar sizes can dramatically affect the way your car handles at the limit


Adjustable vs. Fixed
Swaybars are available in both adjustable and non-adjustable (fixed) varieties. An adjustable swaybar allows you to adjust the stiffness of the bar. This is accomplished by multiple mounting holes in the end of the swaybar (as apposed to a single mounting hole with a fixed bar). A rear adjustable bar will have 3 possible mounting holes on each end of the bar with most brands, but some may have 2 or 4. Bolting the endlink to the middle holes will give you the equivalent stiffness of the actual diameter of the bar ie a 24mm bar will act as a 24mm bar. Bolting the endlinks to the inner holes will make the bar effectively shorter which makes it effectively stiffer. The opposite happens when you bolt the endlink to the outer holes. The bar becomes effectively longer and therefore effectively softer. I use the word "effectively" because the actual length and stiffness of the bar does not change. The only thing that is changing is the way that the bar is linked to the suspension. Each increment of adjustment is equivalent to approximately 1 to 2mm in bar thickness depending on the brand and bar size. A 24mm rear bar could act as a 24mm bar when set to the middle setting or a 26/25mm bar when set to stiff or a 22/23mm bar when set to soft. Front adjustable bars only have 2 adjustment holes. They can either be adjusted to the actual diameter of the bar when set to soft and 2mm stiffer when set to stiff, or they can be adjusted 1mm softer when set to soft and 1mm stiffer when set to stiff depending on the manufacturer of the bar. The way different manufacturers set up the mounting holes varies widely. I would be happy to answer any brand related questions in private, but again I am trying to keep that info out of the tech section since it will be considered "vending" if I do not.

The only real drawback of an adjustable bar is the slightly higher cost, but when you compare this to the cost of replacing an entire bar if you want to change size it is definitely worth while. When you install your new swaybars on your car and feel how they affect the handling you may find that you want to stiffen or soften one or both bars. With adjustable bars you have that option. If you only have the budget to get one of them adjustable I'd recommend the rear for two reasons. 1) It gives you more range of adjustment than the front. 2) Being able to adjust the rear bar is more critical when it comes to the overall neutrality of the car. If you want to make the car understeer or oversteer more you will get more obvious results from changing the settings of the rear bar.


Swaybar Brands
**Please note this section has been removed since the original posting to eliminate any reference to brand names. This was done to keep this post completely neutral so that it could stay in the tech section. Brand related info can sometimes be construed as "vending" by the mods.**



Endlinks
Endlinks are what connect the swaybar to the rest of the suspension. Without endlinks your swaybars would just hang and do nothing. They are a vital part that should not be overlooked. You can use your factory endlinks with aftermarket swaybars, but this doesn't mean you should. You have to remember these aftermarket swaybars are much stiffer than factory swaybars. The factory endlinks were only designed to cope with the stress of factory diameter swaybars. Depending on the year of your car aftermarket swaybars can cause the stock endlinks to flip and in some cases even break, but this is not the main reason I recommend upgrading endlinks. Factory endlinks are soft and don't give you the full advantage of your stiffer swaybars. Aftermarket endlinks will give your new swaybars a more solid connection to the rest of the suspension which means you'll get more benefit out of them.


Types of Endlinks
There are many brands and styles of endlinks. I've sold a whole lot of endlinks and there have been happy customers with every brand and style that we've carried and with most of them there has also been the occasional issue as well. Endlinks are a part that can be designed and built in very different ways each having its own drawbacks and advantages. Up until recently the two most popular styles were spherical bearing and urethane bushing endlinks. Both of these designs have potential issues. Spherical bearing endlinks are known to make noise in some cases. This is usually because dirt has gotten into the bearing. Urethane bushing endlinks have also been known to make noise in some cases. If a bolt doesn't pass through them at a 90 degree angle it puts stress on everything. Other types of endlinks allow free movement, but urethane endlinks resist anything that is not 90 degrees. In many cases this is not severe enough to cause binding and noise problems, but it is definitely a possibility. The other problem with urethane bushings is they are soft. They flex around quite a bit which puts a buffer between the swaybar and lower control arm. They don 't allow the swaybar to do its job as quickly or effectively, so they don't perform quite as well. That's not to say they aren't a great option for many people. It's just a fact that is important to be aware of when choosing an endlink.

The new style I have been running and recommending is called a ball link. A few companies started offering sealed ball link endlinks around 2009-2010. This style of endlink brings together the best of both worlds. They perform significantly better than urethane bushing endlinks since they don't use spongy urethane bushings. They also fit better than urethane bushing endlinks since they allow free movement, but unlike spherical bearing endlinks they don't make noise. They cost a little more than urethane endlinks, but the difference in fit/performance is well worth the price.

A final option that you will see for certain applications (usually the rear of an 08+ car) is a ball link/urethane bushing hybrid which has a urethane bushing on one end and a ball link on the other. Personally I think this is a very good compromise for a daily driver. You don't usually get the urethane bushing fitment issues since you have free movement on one end, but at the same time you get a lower compliance endlink that will be extremely resistant to noise and other issues. It's not going to be the top performer with a stiff bar at the track, but for an everyday car that sees an autox or track day once in a while it's a good way to go.

Heavy Duty Rear Mounts / Braces
A few companies make heavy duty rear mount kits for the 02-07 WRX & STi and rear swaybar mount brace kits for the 08+ WRX & STi. These kits both accomplish the same thing. They strengthen the factory mounting points for the rear swaybar. This helps prevent any flex which helps you get the most out of your rear swaybar. It also helps prevent any kind of breakage or failure. Your factory mounting points were only designed to cope with the stress of your factory diameter swaybar. When you add an aftermarket swaybar you put A LOT more stress on these mounts. These kits are not absolutely needed, but they are something I highly recommend.


I hope that this post helps everyone understand the benefits of aftermarket swaybars and the various options available. If anyone has questions feel free to contact me or reply to this thread.

Thanks,
Geoff
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Last edited by CygnusPerformance; 02-16-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:36 AM   #2
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Awesome post! Sticky?
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:20 AM   #3
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Great write up! After I run my first Auto-x this spring I am going to start my suspension build. Planning on coilovers and adj 24's f/r. I am going to start from the back and work forward. With that being said I will be putting in all GroupN bushings, subframe bolt, KlunkKiller and swaybar with end links all at the same time. Since this will be a substantial change should I put the bar to soft to get more of a feel of what the bushings did? Or would I be better off doing it separately? I want to get a feel of the different mods I do to understand what they do and how they affect the car do I can learn to make adjustments later. Being a rookie at all of this I am affraid I won't feel much difference.

Kenney
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:04 PM   #4
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Cygnus, is there any chance that these GR rear endlink could be made to work as the front for a GG wagon?

- metal sleeve either cut or replaced to fit the wagon control arm (sleeve length? sleeve bolt hole size?)
- is the ball stud the same size as the 17mm bolt head you find on the GD/GG that connects to the sway bar?

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Old 01-31-2013, 06:28 PM   #5
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Great post! Sticky this s***!

Although some clarification on why GD chassies and GR chassies respond differently to the same size sways would be nice! I never knew this!
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:09 AM   #6
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Stuck it!
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:57 PM   #7
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This is a great post. Really like the setup opinions with sizes of bars.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmiovino View Post
This is a great post. Really like the setup opinions with sizes of bars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
Stuck it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semparu13 View Post
Great post! Sticky this s***!

Although some clarification on why GD chassies and GR chassies respond differently to the same size sways would be nice! I never knew this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distant.Calling View Post
Awesome post! Sticky?
Thank you very much guys! I'm really glad you found it helpful Regarding GR vs GD it is likely just because of mounting points and effective bar legnth. You can make the same rear swaybar at least 2mm different in feel just by slightly changing the mounting points. When you have cars with completely different front LCAs and completely different rear suspension altogether they are bound to have some differences when it comes to swaybars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
Cygnus, is there any chance that these GR rear endlink could be made to work as the front for a GG wagon?

- metal sleeve either cut or replaced to fit the wagon control arm (sleeve length? sleeve bolt hole size?)
- is the ball stud the same size as the 17mm bolt head you find on the GD/GG that connects to the sway bar?

I'm really not sure about any of that. Without having a GG wagon here to mess with I'm not really not sure what would be involved. I can tell you that when you compare endlinks of the same brand for these two different applications they don't look very similar at all. Sorry I'm not more help with this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by limited#279 View Post
Great write up! After I run my first Auto-x this spring I am going to start my suspension build. Planning on coilovers and adj 24's f/r. I am going to start from the back and work forward. With that being said I will be putting in all GroupN bushings, subframe bolt, KlunkKiller and swaybar with end links all at the same time. Since this will be a substantial change should I put the bar to soft to get more of a feel of what the bushings did? Or would I be better off doing it separately? I want to get a feel of the different mods I do to understand what they do and how they affect the car do I can learn to make adjustments later. Being a rookie at all of this I am affraid I won't feel much difference.

Kenney
Kenney,

First of all congrats on having a UGM Limited a car I am quite partial to As far as when to install mods goes that is entirely up to you. The rear subframe bolts, rear out rigger inserts and most of the group n bushings are excellent mods. Whether you install them together or not you can't really go wrong. Keep in mind that for autox the subframe bolts could knock you out of quite a few SCCA classes. I don't run them only because of that reason. I too have 24/24 on my car. I find setting the front to stiff and rear to the middle is very neutral and works well on the street and on the track. For autox I usually set the rear bar to stiff and sometimes also move the front to soft depending on the course and surface. I don't think starting with it on soft is necessary as long as you are careful at first since almost all of the understeer will be gone. In my opinion soft is not going to work that well for autox, so you will likely be unbolting your endlinks and adjusting it again if you start there. I'd start on medium. If you have any non-sway related questions feel free to contact me privately. I have all of this stuff on my own car so I'd be happy to tell you what each mod does.

Thanks,
Geoff

Last edited by CygnusPerformance; 02-03-2013 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #9
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this is an awesome writeup! i did notice you have a typo for option one. shouldn't it's heading read as 20mm?

also, care to chime in on hollow vs solid bars?

i checked out your site and am definitely buying my front swaybar from you. your prices are great!
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #10
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thanks for the writeup. so many of the stickies are out of date, it's nice to have one up to date for the new subies.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #11
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thanks for the info. very helpfull!
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #12
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thank you! just what ive been looking for!
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:59 AM   #13
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Thanks, very informative post!!! I'm pretty new to suspension setups so I'm learning as I go. Probably a dumb question but, being that the stock 2013 sway bar setup is 21mm/16mm (front/rear) is there much of a need to change the front sway bar? I was thinking of just buying the rear sway bar and getting new endlinks for both front and rear. Let me know what you think. Thanks again for the post!

Last edited by georhey; 03-15-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georhey View Post
Thanks, very informative post!!! I'm pretty new to suspension setups so I'm learning as I go. Probably a dumb question but, being that the stock 2013 sway bar setup is 21mm/16mm (front/rear) is there much of a need to change the front sway bar? I was thinking of just buying the rear sway bar and getting new endlinks for both front and rear. Let me know what you think. Thanks again for the post!
Depends on what your goal is. If your are daily driving and/or rallyxing, then you're right. Keep the stock front, and just do the rear. The problem is there's no aftermarket 21mm rear. (STI version?)

You can get an adjustable rear 22mm and put it on the softer setting for something close to a "21.5mm".

What kind of springs do you have on the car?
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:14 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
Depends on what your goal is. If your are daily driving and/or rallyxing, then you're right. Keep the stock front, and just do the rear. The problem is there's no aftermarket 21mm rear. (STI version?)

You can get an adjustable rear 22mm and put it on the softer setting for something close to a "21.5mm".

What kind of springs do you have on the car?
Thanks chimchim, I'm definitely just looking at keeping it a daily driver and just add some improvement to the way the car handles. Not looking to track the car much. I'd be good with the 22mm rears which is what I'm thinking of picking up, just wanted to confirm my thoughts. I'm currently riding on stock suspension. I'd like to go with the sways first and feel out the handling improvements before I do springs and struts. Thanks for your response!
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georhey View Post
Thanks chimchim, I'm definitely just looking at keeping it a daily driver and just add some improvement to the way the car handles. Not looking to track the car much. I'd be good with the 22mm rears which is what I'm thinking of picking up, just wanted to confirm my thoughts. I'm currently riding on stock suspension. I'd like to go with the sways first and feel out the handling improvements before I do springs and struts. Thanks for your response!
I'm not sure you really want to go with a fixed 22mm. This is very similar to setup #3 that appears in the OP:

Quote:
3) 22mm front / 24mm rear 02-07
Here is another combo that only applies to 02-07 cars. It may seem like an odd combination, but it is a combination that has been proven in street tire autocross. I'd only recommend a combination like this for cars that are using stiff coilovers. The rear bar will help make the car rotate while the soft front bar will work in conjunction with stiffer springs to provide the best overall grip possible. This is an ideal setup for the intricate low speed turns in autocross.
For reasons beyond the scope of this post, having matching sized sway bars is approximately the "neutral" point for our cars. As the rear becomes stiffer (ie your 21mm front / 22mm rear setup) you bias the car weight transfer characteristic towards oversteer. This is highly desirable in autox (as Cygnus mentioned) but less desirable on the street where you have to emergency brake suddenly because a moron changed lanes in front of you on a curved road without looking. There's another thread that talks about roll stiffness as bars get thicker (every mm is a significant change). So a bias towards oversteer is probably not what you want.

So... a better bet would be to find a OEM 20mm rear or 21mm rear (if available). Probably would save you money too, as they'd be take offs.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:56 PM   #17
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Thanks man. I picked up an adjustable Perrin 22mm for the rear with new End Links.

Debating if I should get the upgraded stout mounts as well ???

I have an 04 WRX, do you think it'll be ok just doing the rear for now since it is mainly a DD with spirited driving?
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ABeastinWRX View Post
Thanks man. I picked up an adjustable Perrin 22mm for the rear with new End Links.

Debating if I should get the upgraded stout mounts as well ???

I have an 04 WRX, do you think it'll be ok just doing the rear for now since it is mainly a DD with spirited driving?
Just read another post with pix of a std mount that was shredded with a bigger bar. There was also a post about a Subaru upgraded mount for much less than the Stouts. Be careful if you start working on the front. I'm pretty sure Perrin's stuff won't fit on your car (like mine) though they will list it as fitting (all).
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:23 PM   #19
ButtDyno
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Any reason why this stuff couldn't just be integrated into the Swaybar FAQ?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1152714

I thought the whole point of superstickies was not to stick every useful thread we came across.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #20
13BRZltd
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Lol relax i think having one sticky that you didnt author will be ok this post has more specific up todate info for impreza owners than any of the others. Leave it here so members dont have to dig through a bunch of outdated 8 year old general tech info to maybe find it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #21
sam68
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You mention all the different types of end links can you break down a few of the better brands of each kind? For me I want to know what brand/model # is best for street/DD applications, which are quietest. I am thinking about the kartboys right now with whiteline 24 front 22 rear, but not sure if they are best for what I am looking for. They seem to get great reviews I just dont know if they will be quiet or if there is another brand/type that would be better for me, thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: I ended up talking to you guys today I went with the Super pro 24 front 22 rear and WL links Comforts in the rear, great package price way better price than anyone else, Thanks for all the help.

Last edited by sam68; 03-27-2013 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #22
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Great write up thanks for the info!

I just had a question, I noticed most setups were geared toward how they would behave in autox but what about for track days (HPDE's)?

I was contemplating going with a bigger rear sway on sticky street tires (ZII's, or RE-11A's) maybe a 22F 24R or 27F 24R. I drove a buddy of mines' STi same year 05 and he has The Big One (27F&R) and as far as street behavior it was fine.

For this car I prefer a neutral to slight understeer. I do drive this car on the street for the weekends/nice days and what not so I dont mind giving up streetability for performance.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostincoyote View Post
Great write up thanks for the info!

I just had a question, I noticed most setups were geared toward how they would behave in autox but what about for track days (HPDE's)?

I was contemplating going with a bigger rear sway on sticky street tires (ZII's, or RE-11A's) maybe a 22F 24R or 27F 24R. I drove a buddy of mines' STi same year 05 and he has The Big One (27F&R) and as far as street behavior it was fine.

For this car I prefer a neutral to slight understeer. I do drive this car on the street for the weekends/nice days and what not so I dont mind giving up streetability for performance.
Thanks glad you liked it... also glad you brought this up since the track and autox do indeed require slightly different setups. For the track you don't want as much rotation as you do with autox. You also want the front bar to be a bit stiffer since you're putting more load on the suspension. You want the car to be fairly neutral, but for someone doing casual track days you are better off with a little bit of understeer. For an 02-07 WRX/STi on street tires at the track I'd go 27 front 24 rear. For an 08-13 WRX/STi I'd go 24 front 22 rear.

Equal sized bars can also work very well on the track if you set the front bar to stiff. If you have coilovers with the proper spring rates for this sort of thing I actually prefer equal sized bars front and rear so that the front suspension can do its job and remain more independent. The stiffer front springs can reduce roll and keep oversteer in check which is really the ideal set up for the track. Hope this helps, if you have any further questions or if there is anything I can do to help please let me know

Thanks,
Geoff

Last edited by CygnusPerformance; 04-24-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:35 PM   #24
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Geoff,

Thanks for the advice and the recommendations on parts! After installing the Super Pro adjustable sway bars (24F/22R) and the Super Pro front control arm bushings (including the ALK) my car has been transformed! The slop that was present with the "yellow" bushings is gone, the steering is far more neutral and the car is just stupid fun to drive again! I really wouldn't have considered the Super Pro parts until talking to you but I'm glad I did. Super high quality and some really nice little touches like the metal rings imbedded in the front LCA front bushings and the sway bar lock rings mounted to the rear bar before the powder coat.

And the package price you worked up for me sealed the deal!

Thanks again!

- Jon
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:23 PM   #25
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Hi cygnus/Geoff what do you recommend for me?

In my case I have a 06 WRX wagon with stock arms and SPT pink springs. The narrower-than-sedan width of the wagon arms is an absolute curse in many many ways. Besides camber problems with sedan struts, I also have another independent problem: squeaking, clacking, popping, clunking endlinks.

I have adjustable 22mm/22mm Whiteline sway bars with Whiteline bushing type heavy duty endlinks (used to have Kartboys with similar and different problems). I think that due to the slight lowering of the SPT spring, the endlinks are forced to lean inwards more for the typical / \ configuration. So I put in washers (kartboy spacers are too thick for the provided hardware with Whiteline). This improved the angle slightly and helped... for awhile.

As the miles have racked up, the endlinks have become more problematic. They clunk and pop so violently that you can feel it in the brake pedal and foot well. You can hear them shifting in place even in stuff like backing out of a parking space and turning. And the fact that the popping becomes worse with time shows how un-ideal the setup is. (To your point in your OP you say they need to be 90 degree; which I agree from an engineering standpoint). I would actually prefer the side-to-side thump of the sway bar shifting with ball joint endlinks than the popping/jarring of bushing endlinks popping in various positions.

I can mask the problem by changing replacing the hardware every somany 1000 of miles, but that is a bandaid to the real problem, and a bandaid I'm sick of doing. My current bandaid step is to get super long bolts to insure the 90 degrees.

But I can't just get ball joint because they don't make them specifically for the wagon. I'm willing to do the modification (hole enlargement) but I wonder if the single ear of the wagon endlink mount actually can hold the forces meant for two. If not, this is yet another temporary bandaid solution.

What would you recommend?

Last edited by chimchimm5; 04-25-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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