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Old 02-13-2013, 03:28 PM   #26
rob1n1
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Who buys a Golf R as a drag car?
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Who buys a Golf R as a drag car?
No one. What are you talking about?
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Come on, you're smarter than that. The HP will be the deciding factor in out-right acceleration potential.

The low-end power will make for just that, a punchy low-end around town. Which of course is a nice thing to have.
I don't know. If you had an ideal CVT, then I agree the peak power is all that matters, but since realistic transmission does not allow you to stay at a particular RPM, you end up covering some range in RPM and obviously that means you do care about the shape of the torque curve around the peak. Take for example the new turbo-4 that BMW is using to replace their NA I6. The peak powers are only ~10HP different, but the difference in acceleration is substantial thanks to the turbo midrange.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:50 PM   #29
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2650 is never gonna happen. The doors weigh that much.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:22 PM   #30
SoapBox
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
I don't know. If you had an ideal CVT, then I agree the peak power is all that matters, but since realistic transmission does not allow you to stay at a particular RPM, you end up covering some range in RPM and obviously that means you do care about the shape of the torque curve around the peak. Take for example the new turbo-4 that BMW is using to replace their NA I6. The peak powers are only ~10HP different, but the difference in acceleration is substantial thanks to the turbo midrange.
Of course, we're assuming proper gearing. As you said, what matters is the POWER you're making in the RPM range you're using. 100% correct.

that being said, I can't think of a car that falls out of its, say, top 2-3k RPMs when achieving max acceleration. In a car with a 7k RPM redline, when accelerating for maximum potential, you're not going to see less than 4-5k RPMs, after the takeoff. Even in small-turbo'd cars running out of steam at high RPMs.

The peak torque you're making at 2k RPMs (or whatever, as stated by Scrappy, not even in the mid-range) means absolutely nothing then. Again, not saying it doesn't make for punchy around town driving, which is a great thing. And likely means a decent mid-range as well...also a great thing. But for outright 100% acceleration, what matters is the mid-upper and upper RPM range in todays cars with 5/6/7+ speed transmissions.



Still have no idea why people like to describe low end power as torque, and high end power as power.

It's all about 1. how much torque you're making at the crank, and 2. the rate at which you're applying that torque to the ground. They have a word for torque delivered over time (assuming logical gearing), it's called power.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Take for example the new turbo-4 that BMW is using to replace their NA I6. The peak powers are only ~10HP different, but the difference in acceleration is substantial thanks to the turbo midrange.
Oh, regarding the new BMW engine...the dynos are showing its VERY underrated. Certainly putting out more power then their base 230 HP I6's were at the end of their run. Some even say 40 HP more. 260-270 is the thought regarding its actual output.

They've seen dynos of 230 AT THE WHEELS on the N20.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593583

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646824

Last edited by SoapBox; 02-13-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:17 PM   #31
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That car looks soooo incredibly boring.
No thank you.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Come on, you're smarter than that. The HP will be the deciding factor in out-right acceleration potential.

The low-end power will make for just that, a punchy low-end around town. Which of course is a nice thing to have.
Again, I should have clarified.

I should have said, its the torque and where in the RPM band it occurs
So yeah, I am smarter than that. But I was lazy and did not clarify.

Good catch.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
My dealer has told me verbally that he would not void my warranty if I do mild mods. He races his R routinely and has it done up to the hilt. Does that mean that VW will listen to the manager of my dealer. Who knows. I am on the verge of trying a Stage I APR flash, but have not done it yet. I only have 1800 miles on my R and it is really just a fantastic car to own and drive. If a really good legacy GT does not come out, or a equally tempting STI, I may have bought my last Subaru. Now I may buy my wife another OUtback,as they are just spectacular cars.

But yes, I like my R that much. If only Subaru would up the game on the refinement a bit. Guess I am getting old.
I agree with everything you said. I never thought I would own a vw and i love my mkvi gti.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:37 PM   #34
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Default Next-gen Volkswagen Golf R spied while running the 'Ring

Auoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/16/n...ning-the-ring/



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The launch of a new Volkswagen Golf is never a small thing, and things are already looking up for the subcompact hatchback after it was named 2013 World Car of the Year. While we've already seen the base and GTI versions of the next-generation Golf, now we're getting our first look at the sportier Golf R.

Although this prototype wears GTI lettering on the front fenders, it's more than just the roll cage and Sparco racing seat hinting that this is something a little more serious. Unlike the Golf and GTI, this car shows that the Golf R will continue to flaunt massive air intakes on each side of the fascia, and the rear of the car (though it's hard to see) has quadruple exhaust outlets. We still don't have an official word on power, but rumors indicate that the next Golf R could be pushing close to 300 horsepower, making it the most powerful production Golf ever. As much fun as we had during our first drive of the Golf R Cabriolet in the cold, snowy French Riviera last month, more power is a warming idea.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:53 PM   #35
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2650 is never gonna happen. The doors weigh that much.
Eventually it'll weigh that much when all the trim pieces fall off. Amirite?
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:11 PM   #36
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Windows that don't roll up result in a lower CoG.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:38 PM   #37
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It'll be the last bastion of manual transmission, Hatchified, and AWD goodness....
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:55 PM   #38
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Subaru and MINI are still providing manual AWD hatches... but those are the only others.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Who buys a Golf R as a drag car?
People in 'merica. Too bad it's true.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:15 PM   #40
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If the US spec is awd and 280 ponies at the currect R price plus a couple of grand I think I may get one? Especially if the WRX is as ugly as what we have seen so far.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:48 AM   #41
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The car would be totally interesting if it wasn't built by VW.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:20 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Subaru and MINI are still providing manual AWD hatches... but those are the only others.
Correct...I guess I didn't really specify power requirements.

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Originally Posted by lovin' it View Post
If the US spec is awd and 280 ponies at the currect R price plus a couple of grand I think I may get one? Especially if the WRX is as ugly as what we have seen so far.
I just may get that amount of power and the price is expected to stay the same or go slightly down for a base model.

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The car would be totally interesting if it wasn't built by VW.

Yea VW needs to work on their reputation and it starts by building solid cars...I'm a bit apprehensive myself but I'm willing to take a chance on a new model and hopefully the warranty will help if something goes wrong. At this point in time its kind of no different than dealing with a Subaru ring land failure.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:07 AM   #43
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That last sentence is exactly what I thought too Tuna. Why not try something different and give VW a chance. I can always sell an R quickly. THe resale is actually quite good.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:12 AM   #44
Integra96
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I'd love to own one of these (under warranty only).
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:48 PM   #45
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After doing a bit of research on the upcoming GTI, more specifically having an optional performance pack: I think that it would be great if this feature made its way over to the Golf R. While certainly more extreme enthusiasts will go with a APR or Revo flash, this is still something decent for those who want to keep their warranty's intact.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:20 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by cannedtuna View Post
Correct...I guess I didn't really specify power requirements.
I knew what you meant, but I've been shopping for my step-dad. The (non-XT) Forester is leading the way right now.. but I looked for every car or CUV with a manual, AWD & a hatch.. and the pickings are disturbingly slim, even if you aren't looking for a performance car. I thought about a Golf R for him for about 10 minutes until I looked up the fuel mileage.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I knew what you meant, but I've been shopping for my step-dad. The (non-XT) Forester is leading the way right now.. but I looked for every car or CUV with a manual, AWD & a hatch.. and the pickings are disturbingly slim, even if you aren't looking for a performance car. I thought about a Golf R for him for about 10 minutes until I looked up the fuel mileage.
Pretty much the same conclusion I keep coming to.

Forester 2.5X or Cayenne VR6 6-speed AWD.

Not much for AWD CUV/Wagon/Hatch with AWD. Wanting some ride height cuts down the selection further.

I don't think Tiguan or Touareg are available with AWD and a manual gearbox together, Auto only, or Auto+AWD only.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:43 AM   #48
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268 hp or 286?
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I knew what you meant, but I've been shopping for my step-dad. The (non-XT) Forester is leading the way right now.. but I looked for every car or CUV with a manual, AWD & a hatch.. and the pickings are disturbingly slim, even if you aren't looking for a performance car. I thought about a Golf R for him for about 10 minutes until I looked up the fuel mileage.
Ok gotcha, the Golf R may be better than the current STI or WRX but not significantly better. Also, if I were to get one I think that I would simply treat it as a gas guzzler because I don't think that I would be able to restrain from dipping into turbo.

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268 hp or 286?
I believe 286 is more likely, because most articles are predicting them borrowing the same engine used in the Audi S3 which is pretty close to 300. We'll then get a model with the hp down rated to something like 280ish; but if you know VW or BMW, understating a cars power is something they do very often and if you only dyno them they come out to in many cases be much more than what was stated. This leads me to conclude 280ish stated but more like 290ish reality.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:43 AM   #50
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Also, anyone heard of future R models being offered more like a trim than a special every 4 years offering? Thoughts?

I think that this will be good, and shows that VW will be competing directly with Subaru in the turbocharged, AWD market. This is something that has been understated until now, but you can see that VW is starting to take styling cues from Subaru: quad exhausts, exterior side panel badgings, and a larger trunk hatch spoiler. All signs point to a more sportier Golf R and who knows this if this becomes a sales success then it may open doors to future R models.
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