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Old 02-15-2013, 07:48 PM   #26
Spenk
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I predict that the cheap interior materials of the BRZ/FRS will not hold up well after massive UV exposure.

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Old 02-15-2013, 07:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDPilot View Post
... that and both brands no longer exist
I'm no expert, but this usually kill sales.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I'm no expert, but this usually kill sales.
True, but if there wasn't anything else wrong with it we'd see it back with a bowtie like the SS.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDPilot View Post
The sky and solstice failed because of trunk space ... no lie

... that and both brands no longer exist
Truth I test drove a Solstice and loved it but it had no space at all.

Subaru and Scion haven't had any problems selling cars. The only place it's some kind of failure is on this forum. I could do without a convertible though.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by hkerekes View Post
The horrible thought process continues.........

Hey this car is great. We have a winner here.

But sir, everyone says its underpowered and gets crappy mpg.

LETS MAKE A CONVERTIBLE version. Everyone loves a convertible. I'm a ****ing genius.

Subaru cares. They really do. You can tell because Toyota doesn't care what you say since their profits outweigh your ego by a metric ton.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkerekes View Post
The horrible thought process continues.........

Hey this car is great. We have a winner here.

But sir, everyone says its underpowered and gets crappy mpg.

LETS MAKE A CONVERTIBLE version. Everyone loves a convertible. I'm a ****ing genius.

And you might ask yourself why the chassis is so stiff and works so well... it's because the car was designed to be a convertible from square 1.

And you might ask yourself why kC didn't buy one... because the car might come in a convertible.

And the days go on... water flowing under me...

--kC
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by AWDPilot View Post
True, but if there wasn't anything else wrong with it we'd see it back with a bowtie like the SS.
Well, it was a decent car and it sold pretty well for a sports car but I don't think GM wanted to put the money and effort to Chevy-ize it considering sales dropped off due to the recession and the whole bankruptcy thing. Much like the the G8, the timing was all wrong.

A fail that the Solstice experienced was that there was a hardtop that could not be stored in the vehicle. You had to purchase the extra soft-top if you wanted a roof on the go.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:52 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkerekes View Post
The horrible thought process continues.........

Hey this car is great. We have a winner here.

But sir, everyone says its underpowered and gets crappy mpg.

LETS MAKE A CONVERTIBLE version. Everyone loves a convertible. I'm a ****ing genius.


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Old 02-17-2013, 04:05 AM   #34
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Convertible? really? ive not heard one person say they wish it was availabe As a convertible... you know what i have heard though? A resounding "it needs more power!" how can they sell the brz for 28k and expect to sell them when you can get a mustang gt w/ 420 hp! for 30k! They either need to substantially drop the price or they need to throw a high winding 6 in there w/ 280-300 hp and sell it for 30k.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:50 AM   #35
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Obviously that's the new Z4 roadster test mule
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:37 AM   #36
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Convertible? really? ive not heard one person say they wish it was availabe As a convertible... you know what i have heard though? A resounding "it needs more power!" how can they sell the brz for 28k and expect to sell them when you can get a mustang gt w/ 420 hp! for 30k! They either need to substantially drop the price or they need to throw a high winding 6 in there w/ 280-300 hp and sell it for 30k.

Right. Because they are not selling enough now to justify a convertable.








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Old 02-17-2013, 10:11 AM   #37
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I park next to one in the mornings. It's really a tiny car, so I don't see why 200hp bothers people....


Grow up, gas is going to be $5+/gallon eventually. You'll have to "lower your standards."


As if Europe is void of small cars that are fun to drive.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #38
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The 997 911 came out in 2004 with 340hp. The most recent version with the same chassis just went on sale with 612hp. My point being, it's more important to get the chassis right first, and then power can be added easily. More powerful versions will no doubt be coming soon enough. If you don't think 200hp is enough, and aren't comfortable modding your own car to get more power, I'm sure you'll get your wish soon enough. The reason smart people (basically every car reviewer out there) are getting excited about this car, and forums trolls are constantly complaining about the power, is that the smart people see the potential this chassis has. Even the engine people on forums are constantly bitching about has shown tremendous potential to hold up well over 400hp with stock interals, and less than a year after going on sale it is already close to 200whp NA with some pretty inexpensive parts. If you think this car is not powerful enough, you are not seeing the big picture.

Last edited by spaceywilly; 02-17-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:03 PM   #39
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You're missing the point of this car, if you're in it for the power.

And I'd love to see the longetivity of a 400 whp GT86 over the long term.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #40
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Subaru and Toyota has provided a great platform for car enthusiast. Look at the TRD Griffen concept and what they are doing with a full exhaust and tune for engine mods.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #41
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Oh fine, I'll come out of the closet and say making it a convertible makes it more appealing for us to purchase as a "fun" car. I might take it to a track once in awhile, maybe an autocross or two, but primarily it's for enjoyable weekend driving with my wife. Open air adds to the fun factor for plenty of folks. Personally I'd prefer a compromise... a targa top.

I'm glad it's designed primarily as a coupe, so the focus can be on handling & structure... the guys who track it frequently will still get a car designed for that, and I appreciate that.

Last edited by keepclam; 02-17-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #42
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It was designed primarily as a convertible. The chassis rigidity is/was already present for it to lose the top.

Hence, the ultra stiff and responsive chassis.

--kC
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illmatic View Post
Subaru and Toyota has provided a great platform for car enthusiast. Look at the TRD Griffen concept and what they are doing with a full exhaust and tune for engine mods.
I think I made an accident...

...in my pants...

That thing is sexy as hell, and I'm not a fan of the BRZ at all. Looks too plastic-y. But this one is an entirely different monster!
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:58 PM   #44
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Right. Because they are not selling enough now to justify a convertable.

By the same logic I could say "right. like they aren't selling enough to warrant a more powerful version"


That wasn't part of the argument... Yeah they are selling but if they'd listen to most of the complaints about this car it's the lack of power... Some people simply arent buying it because it's not fast enough for the price. Again, I haven't heard anyone say, "I'd buy it if it was a convertible". If they'd make a more powerful version, they'd definitely sell them. It could be a drivers car that could also be scary fast if they'd give it 280-300 hp. Hell even Lotus uses the Toyota 3.5 v6 in the Evora, doesn't seem that far of a stretch of the imagination to throw a version of that engine in the FR-S/BRZ. That would keep it NA, around 30 mpg's and shut up all the naysayers all at once.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #45
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sential... are you blissfully unaware, or are just plain ignorant, to what it means when they had to increase production on these cars to meet demand?

So the argument you're making is nonsensical. This more than proves that those who decry "more hp" just... don't... get... it, because they are exceeding sales expectations, even with "not enough" hp.

--kC
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:34 PM   #46
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They are selling them as fast as they can build them (unlike the Evora, btw). Making it a convertible is much easier from an engineering perspective than putting in a new engine, especially since the convertible was probably developed right alongside the coupe. It's an easy way for them to freshen it up for the next model year and pick up the sales that will be lagging once the hype dies down.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by The Duke View Post
Old GC 2.5RS had a nice mid-range gain from a proper ECU tweak. It was due in part to emissions for OEM certification.

Still, full exhaust and tune gaining that much should really help it scoot. Not to mention I remember hearing the intake manifold could use some work as well...


Since when has the ECM in a GC RS been tuneable?
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
They are selling them as fast as they can build them (unlike the Evora, btw). Making it a convertible is much easier from an engineering perspective than putting in a new engine, especially since the convertible was probably developed right alongside the coupe. It's an easy way for them to freshen it up for the next model year and pick up the sales that will be lagging once the hype dies down.
At least before Honda brings back their S2000. Then we'll see BRZ people contemplate selling their BRZ for an S2000 because it'll have more power.

But then we'll still see people complain about the fact that the BRZ still doesn't have enough power when it has enough given the weight and intended purpose which is NOT to enlarge the penis size of men who need something to supplement their lack of manliness.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
They are selling them as fast as they can build them (unlike the Evora, btw). Making it a convertible is much easier from an engineering perspective than putting in a new engine, especially since the convertible was probably developed right alongside the coupe. It's an easy way for them to freshen it up for the next model year and pick up the sales that will be lagging once the hype dies down.
Well the Evora doesn't sell as fast for a lot of reasons... Maybe the $65K price tag has something to with it???

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
sential... are you blissfully unaware, or are just plain ignorant, to what it means when they had to increase production on these cars to meet demand?

So the argument you're making is nonsensical. This more than proves that those who decry "more hp" just... don't... get... it, because they are exceeding sales expectations, even with "not enough" hp.

--kC
Make a proper rebuttal to my statement, then we can talk... or are you too ignorant to have a proper discussion without resorting to put downs?

Count the number of remarks in regard to this car stating "I wish it was a convertible, then I'd buy it". Then count the number of people stating "I wish it had more hp". It should be clear what the most desired attribute for this car is...

Yes I know this is a well balanced car, and it's meant for the twisties... But it's not an either/or situation.. You can have both...a car that handles like its on rails and puts your head in the back seat when you mash the pedal.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:35 PM   #50
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I am around a lot of Ford guys. When the Mustang GT 500 came out, how much HP did it have? What does it have now? People will always want more HP.

And I disagree with the statement about "complaints" about more HP. Everything I have read, it is more they would "like" more HP but continue to sing praises about the car. MOST of the complaints about not enough are from modded WRX/STI owners that, what do ya'll call it, "race on paper", "straight line racing"; that haven't even driven one. Shut up already. If it gets more, you can be happy. Probably still won't buy one.
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