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Old 01-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #301
K1WRC
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Is full race going to come out with a two bolt header to mate up to this?
From reading above that's what it sounds like and discontinue the 1.5 scroll one they currently make
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:14 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1WRC View Post
Is full race going to come out with a two bolt header to mate up to this?
From reading above that's what it sounds like and discontinue the 1.5 scroll one they currently make
I've wondered the same thing. I have a 3-bolt Tomei right now and would prefer not to go back to stock, but keep the UELness.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:04 AM   #303
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A note to anyone else with this kit...

One of the studs on the uppipe needs to be installed backwards from how you'd normally install a stud in order to clear the casting where the wastegate is:



If you place the uppipe to manifold flange flat against a workbench, then the stud that is highest above your workbench is the one that needs to be backwards.

At first I was going to be pissed since I thought I was going to have to cut and grind this stud that's like 3/8ths too tall, but I calmed down a lot when I realized I could just put it in backwards and there was enough thread. Not full thread on the nut, but enough. It would have been nice to have some indication of this beforehand, but it wasn't too difficult to figure out.

Also, once I got the stud turned around, the nut included barely clears. The top of the nut isn't flat, as a form of thread locking, the raised portion rubbed on the housing. I thought I was cross threading at first, but it cleared and would just give a tiny bite every 1/2 turn. Clearance is tight on all the nuts, but that one is the tightest as the WG path "cuts the corner. It definitely makes for a really smooth WG path. I never really looked too carefully at the WG path on the VF turbos, but when I saw the EFR, I compared the WG path to the other turbos I had lying around... yeah, no wonder people have boost creep issues with the stock turbo...

Last edited by Concillian; 01-28-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:09 PM   #304
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Very nice, the more I see the EFR's the more I want to figure out how to get one! What headers are you going to be running on your set up?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:21 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1WRC View Post
Very nice, the more I see the EFR's the more I want to figure out how to get one! What headers are you going to be running on your set up?
Let me know if you would like info or pricing.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:07 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1WRC View Post
Is full race going to come out with a two bolt header to mate up to this? From reading above that's what it sounds like and discontinue the 1.5 scroll one they currently make
correct, we are releasing a new 2-bolt header for the current crop of bolton up pipes and of course this stock location EFR turbo kit. Paul at Yimisport did some preliminary testing and we're just about ready to put photos online, a few more final tweaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
I thought I was going to have to cut and grind this stud that's like 3/8ths too tall, but I calmed down a lot when I realized I could just put it in backwards and there was enough thread. Not full thread on the nut, but enough. It would have been nice to have some indication of this beforehand, but it wasn't too difficult to figure out.
correct - i will ask the webguy to make a note of this. Also two more small things you will want to be aware of:
a) coolant line orientation (inlet on bottom, outlet on opposite side top)
b) the oil drain/turbo clocking position will be dictated by the wastegate bracket! (only one position where it is truly "happy" which you may have already found out)
c) lastly -great to see you applied antiseize to the threads (for good measure its also a good idea to apply to all vbands/threads/nuts also)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
The top of the nut isn't flat, as a form of thread locking, the raised portion rubbed on the housing. I thought I was cross threading at first, but it cleared and would just give a tiny bite every 1/2 turn. Clearance is tight on all the nuts, but that one is the tightest as the WG path "cuts the corner. It definitely makes for a really smooth WG path. I never really looked too carefully at the WG path on the VF turbos, but when I saw the EFR, I compared the WG path to the other turbos I had lying around... yeah, no wonder people have boost creep issues with the stock turbo...
correct- the EFR's aerodynamic wastegate port gains power by massively reducing turbulence at the turbine wheel's exit. Our inconel locking hardware is tall due to the locking portion of the threads (and not cheap) but the advantage is you'll never worry about them coming loose
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:51 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
b) the oil drain/turbo clocking position will be dictated by the wastegate bracket! (only one position where it is truly "happy" which you may have already found out)
I haven't gotten there quite yet. The twinscroll AVCS oiling line interferes. I found out lastnight that I have to remove the intake manifold and coolant crossover to swap with the USDM AVCS line. Ouch.

In the meantime, I left a message at FR a little before close yesterday about what appears to be a mixup in my kit, no 3/8 NPT to -10AN adapter, but I have a -10AN straight fitting that wasn't in the parts checklist. Really wanting to swap Thursday and the line is so much easier to deal with on the stand than in the car, I may just try to find the adapter at a local speed shop.

Haven't gotten to coolant yet, but it looks like I reuse one of the stock banjo fittings and the other gets the -6AN and adapter based on this pic that was posted a couple times already:
.
I'm sure this would have been obvious when I can get the twinscroll oil line out of the way and I can actually get bolts in the uppipe --> manifold joint so I can see how everything lines up, but seeing the picture eliminates guesswork. This one picture helps quite a bit in figuring out what goes where.

Last edited by Concillian; 01-29-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:46 PM   #308
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I got the USDM / singlescroll AVCS line in place so I could check things out.

Here is what I've found:
- right side coolant fits right up to the soft line as in the above picture.
- provided oil feed line is made 180 degrees from an "easy" orientation to screw into the turbo and USDM AVCS oil line. The 90 degree bends form an "S" where it would be easiest if they were a "U" or even one was straight.

Here's a pic showing both of these things:


There is just enough slack in the line to twist it into fitting, so this is not a show stopper.
2.0L / non-AVCS people can fit the line fairly comfortably directly to the head port, but would need to purchase a -4 AN fitting that adapted to the banjo into the head.

The orientation of the t-bolt clamp matters as well. This is where mine was when I unpacked the turbo:

It may not be obvious, but it would go right through the tranny housing if there was a tranny housing there. I had to rotate the T-bolt to the "bottom" of the turbo to clear the tranny. Looks like the oil line will clear, but as with everything else with this install, it's tight. I think the 3/8 NPT to -10AN adapter will be long enough that it should be fine.

Lastly, the stock coolant line from the TD04 I had in my garage does not fit. The banjo is too small (12mm). So this kit is not designed with TD04 owners in mind (WRX <08)... looking at the FR site, they sell this as an STi kit. I have no idea if the STi turbo is 14mm banjos. I hope my FP 18G has 14mm banjos (it did, and they fit.)

I think this concludes my engine stand work until I can get an intake manifold gasket (will be delivered tomorrow) and find an NPT to -10 AN adapter for the oil drain (later edit I found one locally and used it. FR had one in the mail and it showed up the next day.) Gonna get the car in the air and prep to pull the engine out (hopefully Thursday).

Last edited by Concillian; 02-20-2013 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:52 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1WRC View Post
Very nice, the more I see the EFR's the more I want to figure out how to get one! What headers are you going to be running on your set up?
I have the Perrin headers on my car now, but the EFR kit has no direct turbo support bracket. With Perrin headers known for cracking, I don't trust them to support the whole turbo on that kind of a lever arm. So I'm going to use the stock + Grimmspeed crosspipe that came off my car a while ago. If Full Race has a 2 bolt header available later, I'll consider that in the future, but for now I'm going to use stock-ish manifold and sell the Perrin header.

Last edited by Concillian; 03-19-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:38 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
I have the Perrin headers on my car now, but the EFR kit has no direct turbo support and with Perrin known for cracking, I don't trust them to support the whole turbo on that kind of a lever arm. So I'm going to use the stock + Grimmspeed crosspipe that came off my car a while ago. If Full Race has a 2 bolt header available later, I'll consider that in the future, but for now I'm going to use stock-ish manifold and sell the Perrin header.
Do you have a build thread? I'm always poking around to see what others are doing. Thanks
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #311
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So for the EFR 7163 to mount into your WRX/STI you need to buy Fullraces uppipe and down pipe? or will the turbo mount up just like the factory turbo?

- i got really excited and then I read everything, thought it was just a bolt on turbo and I wouldnt have to swap alot of stuff. Sounds like a great kit, maybe in the summer a release of new turbos wont need the up/down pipe and the new turbo technology can be released into a turbo can just be a bolt on and not a full kit needed.

Last edited by yeayeaatou; 02-16-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:47 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeayeaatou View Post
So for the EFR 7163 to mount into your WRX/STI you need to buy Fullraces uppipe and down pipe? or will the turbo mount up just like the factory turbo?
Yes. You need turbo, uppipe, down pipe and a kit box.

Pm me if you would like more info and pricing
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:52 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeayeaatou View Post
So for the EFR 7163 to mount into your WRX/STI you need to buy Fullraces uppipe and down pipe? or will the turbo mount up just like the factory turbo?

- i got really excited and then I read everything, thought it was just a bolt on turbo and I wouldnt have to swap alot of stuff. Sounds like a great kit, maybe in the summer a release of new turbos wont need the up/down pipe and the new turbo technology can be released into a turbo can just be a bolt on and not a full kit needed.
Not likely. You'll need to buy an entire kit like the one Full-Race offers. I highly doubt Borg Warner is going to tailor their turbos to one small, direct section of the market just so we can fit them without a new up-pipe.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:06 PM   #314
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The EFR turbo is longer because it incorporates so much more into the turbo thus the need of a down pipe to fit the turbo. Each Full Race kit is hand set up in a "half car" jig in their shop. The tolerances are very tight but the power band is great!!
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:09 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTofwestchester View Post
The EFR turbo is longer because it incorporates so much more into the turbo thus the need of a down pipe to fit the turbo. Each Full Race kit is hand set up in a "half car" jig in their shop. The tolerances are very tight but the power band is great!!
And the response between shifts <3 I've seen that jig and the shop in person it's pretty cool!
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:06 PM   #316
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this may be the wrong place but if i read it right the b1 exh housings will be release with inlet and outlet v band connections. is this true and will it be offered on the 6758 or 6258 and 7163? when will they be released?
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #317
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FYI, I got everything installed.

I'm currently troubleshooting AVCS wiring issues before tuning. Running at just wastegate boost of 10.5 psi (~5mm preload) and stock version 8 ignition timing (which I'm sure is a bit low for E85). Tuning and comparisons will have to wait until after I figure out my AVCS issue. Could be a week or three depending on what spare time I have.

I had two last issues when assembling everything:
The 2.0L passenger side TMIC bracket doesn't fit.
The 2.5L intercooler bracket has more room between the mount bolts and where the upright comes up. The 2.0L bracket hits the compressor outlet high and also hits the compressor housing low. I didn't even realize these are different parts 2.0L and 2.5L, but they clearly are. I found someone who has a picture of these two brackets next to each other that shows the difference (2.5L top / 2.0L right below that one.):
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1546771

I do not know the part number, I happened to have one of the 2.5L ones because the version 8 STi uses that bracket too, so my EJ207 came with one. It was a bit bent up, as both the importer and I lifted the engine with that TMIC bracket. I thought they were both the same, so I was going to use my stock one... then it didn't fit... So I did my best to bend the other one back into shape and got it to fit in. Not a perfect fit, but it's in.

FR or FAST should find out what part the 2.0L guys need to order, I think you'd want to tell people with a stock 2.0L that they'll need the other bracket if they want to run a TMIC. I didn't find it in a scan of subarugenuineparts.com. They had the 08+ bracket and 2.0L bracket easy to find, but the 04-07 2.5L bracket was not something I could find in their catalog. Most posts in the forums here at NASIOC seemed to indicate that most people think these brackets are the same for all 02-07. I can confirm without a doubt that they're different for 02-05 WRX. 06-07 WRX appears to be the same as 04-07 STi (the correct one.)

The other issue may be an exclusive issue with the Process West TMIC and may or may not be an issue on the STi TMIC. Once it was all together, I realized the intercooler was sitting on the compressor outlet before it rested on the bracket. I ended up having to take everything back apart and do some gymnastics to loosen the compressor housing band clamp to clock the turbo slightly clockwise from it's as-received orientation, which let the intercooler drop down and bolt to the support bracket.

This made the clearance with the bracket even more of an issue, but I got it to work. I had to muscle the bracket towards the firewall to fit the hose clamp between the bracket and the silicone elbow. Then once the clamp was in place, I had to muscle the bracket back to line it up with the intercooler. Hopefully that's only an issue with PW TMICs.

Bottom line is that just about EVERY dimension is tight on the kit. there are some places where it seemed that if the turbo were 1/16th inch bigger, it just would not be possible to fit it where it is.

As a result it was a bit of a pain to get it all together. I'm impressed that FR was able to do it and is confident enough in their tolerances to sell as a DIY install kit. It's not the kind of thing I see anyone able to fabricate on their own without quite a bit of trial and error and cursing and wasting time. Then again someone fabricating their own would likely be rotating it, and there would be more room then.

Thanks FR and FAST, hopefully next time I'll be posting in my own thread showing road dyno and datalog comparisons.

Last edited by Concillian; 02-19-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:02 PM   #318
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Great feedback! I'll be tuned in to your thread. GL
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:05 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
FYI, I got everything installed.



Thanks FR and FAST, hopefully next time I'll be posting in my own thread showing road dyno and datalog comparisons.
^^^^Enjoying the updates and ill follow up on the tmic bracket. Keep on posting.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:30 PM   #320
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Check out the new 2 bolt manifold they just released.

Looks awesome!!

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...-manifold.html
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:25 PM   #321
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subed.... thinking about going this route maybe.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:18 PM   #322
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I am a little confused - doesn't the EFR come in 7064 vs. 7163? Also, I was under the impression from Full-Race that only the B1 Frame (6758 being the largest) would fit in the stock location.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:34 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulys05wrx View Post
I am a little confused - doesn't the EFR come in 7064 vs. 7163? Also, I was under the impression from Full-Race that only the B1 Frame (6758 being the largest) would fit in the stock location.
7064 is the larger frame. The 7163 is not out yet, but will be B1 frame and likely the largest possible B1 frame turbo. 6758 is the largest B1 frame currently available

------

Anyone waiting for updates from me, I apologize, but my clutch is slipping. I had some time where it wasn't slipping at 14psi, but now it's slipping there too.

EFR 6758 @ 14psi was coming around 3200 in 3rd on the street with AVCS (3.9 final 5-speed.) No AVCS was 38-3900. Probably somewhere in the 3500-3600 range on an EJ205 and below 3000 RPM on a 2.5L. Certainly very close to a vf39, maybe ~100RPM later? It's spooling better than my 18G/7cm was on my EJ205, but a good portion of that gain is the AVCS on the EJ207 swap that happened at the stame time as the EFR install.

Top end comparisons will have to wait until I have a clutch that can hold it, which is probably 2-3 more weeks out to get that in place and tuned.

~6mm preload is giving a WG pressure of ~10.5, but creeping up to ~13psi at 8k RPM, probably due to a bit of angle the actuator has at the clocking necessary for stock-ish location.

Last edited by Concillian; 03-19-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:09 PM   #324
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You don't want any angle on the WG actuator at all even if that means clocking the center section so that the oil drain line isn't vertical. The hotside, chra, and cold side can all be moved independant of one another.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:51 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
You don't want any angle on the WG actuator at all even if that means clocking the center section so that the oil drain line isn't vertical. The hotside, chra, and cold side can all be moved independant of one another.
Can't do anything about it in this location.
Can't move the actuator, because there's no more holes that direction. Can't move the turbine because the uppipe is where it is. Can't move the compressor or it lifts the TMIC off the bracket, I already clocked the compressor a tad the other way because initially it wasn't letting my TMIC bolt to the bracket.

It's not binding, the angle is along the path that the wg actuator rotates. I'm really just speculating as to why it would be creeping. It could be it's just not opening enough at 6mm preload needed for a measley 10.5 psi spring boost in the midrange and running a high boost actuator at 2mm preload would be better. I don't really know enough about these physics to say for sure.
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