Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday April 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #1
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default Urgent, Jdm Ej207 dual avcs Dbw on a 2011 EDM STI

Hi guys,
I own a 2011 EDM STI with a 2.5 dual avcs dbw engine and I need to swap to a 2.0 Jdm engine in order to get rid of this problematic ej25.
Do somebody knows if I can do a straight in swap and install an Ej207 with dual AVCS and dbw?
I'm worried especially regarding the ECU... Probably the 2.5 ECU will not work,even if is a dual avcs dbw one, but having the JDM version of the ECU will be working on my car or the ECU wirings are completely different?
Thanks anybody will help me.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #2
scobbyfouette
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 175134
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Québec
Default

I have swap a few jdm dual avcs head into 2.5 usdm sti, MY 08+, and it works just fine !

you will have problem with immobiliser stuff with the JDM ecu, swap your EDM manifold with the wiring fromm the intake onto the jdm engine , and get a tune , it should work just fine ! juts make sure the jdm engine have the same 3 wire cam reference sensor on the exaust cam ! keep us post
scobbyfouette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #3
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobbyfouette View Post
I have swap a few jdm dual avcs head into 2.5 usdm sti, MY 08+, and it works just fine !

you will have problem with immobiliser stuff with the JDM ecu, swap your EDM manifold with the wiring fromm the intake onto the jdm engine , and get a tune , it should work just fine ! juts make sure the jdm engine have the same 3 wire cam reference sensor on the exaust cam ! keep us post
Thanks for your help!
Just confirm this please:
- have you used your usdm ECU or changed into a jdm one solving the immobiliser issue?
- how can I be sure the cam sensor is the correct one if I order a new engine?
- all the other sensors wirings are the same?
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 06:04 AM   #4
dr20t
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 311246
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Why not swap your edm 257 Sti manifold onto the 207 long block and use your factory ecu to control it?

You *may have to swap avcs solenoids from your motor but that should be fine
dr20t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 08:08 AM   #5
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobbyfouette View Post
I have swap a few jdm dual avcs head into 2.5 usdm sti, MY 08+, and it works just fine
I am surprised it works just fine. The JDM piston at TDC is lower than the USDM, below deck.
Are you using a thick headgasket?

Then of course, this is a hybrid setup with the diameter differences and their effects.
Unless these JDM heads were machined to match the USDM block.

OP, you need GRB JDM EJ207 for dual AVCS, not any JDM EJ207. The price and availabillity may not be the greatest.
But you could be on track for a swap that may prove to be simple.
You have to account for the immobilizer, they have to send you a set of keys, immobilizer unit, ECU, all matching.
The wiring may not need to be a concern.
The Canbus system is the only thing I'm not sure about yet, but Mick has experience with it.
In your case, you already have a functioning Canbus, it's only a matter of re-establishing the data network with other compliant components, just not the ones in the original network.
I think this will work..

Last edited by Vlad; 02-03-2013 at 08:14 AM.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 10:31 AM   #6
555
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 20161
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Florida, Ankara
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza ST
555

Default

@maverick83 Where have you sourced grb jdm EJ207?

@vlad Do you know which Subarus are equipped with EJ207HG1LE ?
555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #7
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr20t View Post
Why not swap your edm 257 Sti manifold onto the 207 long block and use your factory ecu to control it?

You *may have to swap avcs solenoids from your motor but that should be fine
It could be an option,but there could be 2 problems :
- are the wirings exactly the same and compatible? (The gauge cluster for example is different).
- the EDM/USDM ECU has got different tables inside ,for example the target boost and wastegate tables are very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I am surprised it works just fine. The JDM piston at TDC is lower than the USDM, below deck.
Are you using a thick headgasket?

Then of course, this is a hybrid setup with the diameter differences and their effects.
Unless these JDM heads were machined to match the USDM block.

OP, you need GRB JDM EJ207 for dual AVCS, not any JDM EJ207. The price and availabillity may not be the greatest.
But you could be on track for a swap that may prove to be simple.
You have to account for the immobilizer, they have to send you a set of keys, immobilizer unit, ECU, all matching.
The wiring may not need to be a concern.
The Canbus system is the only thing I'm not sure about yet, but Mick has experience with it.
In your case, you already have a functioning Canbus, it's only a matter of re-establishing the data network with other compliant components, just not the ones in the original network.
I think this will work..
Can we ask Mick the exact procedure if he knows it,in order to be 100% sure and have a go for the work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 View Post
@maverick83 Where have you sourced grb jdm EJ207?

@vlad Do you know which Subarus are equipped with EJ207HG1LE ?
I don't have one available now,but a friend that has got an STI base team can order one for me from Japan. Actually he could order me a base JDM car with a LHD conversion kit,but the problem is that when I've bought the car in 2011 I didn't know it was possible to have a Jdm car so easily.
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 12:49 PM   #8
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

There have been very few swaps on CanBus cars.
Your average JDM swap is from a 2002-2005 JDM single AVCS Sti to a USDM non AVCS WRX.
There is a more advanced JDM Single AVCS, to USDM 32bit single AVCS non-Canbus Sti.
Canbus adds an ellement of uncertainty. Mick is in the process of swap from one Canbus JDM engine to another Canbus body AUS car..

Under my opinion two things could happen:
1. These things have components that react like a computer network (like ethernet) and the JDM components will be seen on the ethernet by the JDM computer, as expected, but then also all the body sensors from your EUDM chassis. So then, the ECU will give the sensors "IP addresses" and carry on, line nothing happened..
2. Your chassis components do not have drivers in the JDM ECU.
So then you'd have to have a way to install drivers in the ECU.
I have no idea how this may be done in a Subaru, but have seen on VW-Audi that they use that VAG software, to install drivers for sensors.

This will not be on the beaten path. You will have to take some chances and make some discoveries.
Share them, make a build thread..
WITH PHOTOS, please.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 07:15 PM   #9
555
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 20161
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Florida, Ankara
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza ST
555

Default

Quote:

I don't have one available now,but a friend that has got an STI base team can order one for me from Japan. Actually he could order me a base JDM car with a LHD conversion kit,but the problem is that when I've bought the car in 2011 I didn't know it was possible to have a Jdm car so easily.
Thanks mate. Wish I had a friend like that
If I were you I would invest for complete assy. long EJ207 engine with wiring and ECU.

I am on the same route but I have a Syvecs ecu so i can use my own wiring.I will sell my long motor and buy EJ207 long motor. You have PM.
555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 07:22 PM   #10
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
There have been very few swaps on CanBus cars.
Your average JDM swap is from a 2002-2005 JDM single AVCS Sti to a USDM non AVCS WRX.
There is a more advanced JDM Single AVCS, to USDM 32bit single AVCS non-Canbus Sti.
Canbus adds an ellement of uncertainty. Mick is in the process of swap from one Canbus JDM engine to another Canbus body AUS car..

Under my opinion two things could happen:
1. These things have components that react like a computer network (like ethernet) and the JDM components will be seen on the ethernet by the JDM computer, as expected, but then also all the body sensors from your EUDM chassis. So then, the ECU will give the sensors "IP addresses" and carry on, line nothing happened..
2. Your chassis components do not have drivers in the JDM ECU.
So then you'd have to have a way to install drivers in the ECU.
I have no idea how this may be done in a Subaru, but have seen on VW-Audi that they use that VAG software, to install drivers for sensors.

This will not be on the beaten path. You will have to take some chances and make some discoveries.
Share them, make a build thread..
WITH PHOTOS, please.
Thanks for your help.
Do you have Mick's contact infos?
I would certainly like to do a sort of install guide but I first need to be resonably
sure that is something that can be done...otherwise I won't order the new engine.
The strange thing is : if you buy a PnP M800 Motec ECU they say that it can be' used with both EJ20 and EJ25........
So is this the last chance?!
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 09:24 PM   #11
scobbyfouette
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 175134
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Québec
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr20t View Post
Why not swap your edm 257 Sti manifold onto the 207 long block and use your factory ecu to control it?

You *may have to swap avcs solenoids from your motor but that should be fine
exactly as i said i confirme avcs solenoids are the same !

the only thing u need to do on your factory computer, is to get a QUALITY tune !

Ive done it and it works, what else can i say ! you might need a few odds and ends, but for sure nothing major , just get it done by a subaru specialist shop they will easily figure it out for you

I warn you for the 3 wire exaust cam sensor, but i belive ALL manual transmission STi engine have the same 3 wire, i have seen 2 wired only on legacy ej20X with manual trannys, the autom. ej20X have the 3 wired , and i'm unsure on the top of my head that the sti v.10+ have the 2 or 3 wire , thats why i told you to make sure its the 3 wired, its the only difference i have recall so far ...

( ej20x are legacy dual avcs , basically same engine set up as sti 10 engine with some differences )

u can modified a 3 wired sensor to fit in there easily tho, i have also done it and it work just fine, the cam have the same reference slot pick up anyways ! ( there is a slight offset in the bolt pattern that hold the sensor onto the head, )

just saying this swap is doable and proved to works just fine if you follow the path i've already done, hope it helps ! dont think to much or botter with the can bus crap, the ecu will not mind as long as u keep your manifold and wiring and get a Tune !
scobbyfouette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #12
scobbyfouette
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 175134
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Québec
Default

Quote:
I am surprised it works just fine. The JDM piston at TDC is lower than the USDM, below deck.
Are you using a thick headgasket?
Only the v.7 piston are way lower below deck, i dont use thicker head gasket, as it mess the quench too much, i used purpose made pistons instead when i do hybride, mostly for race cars ! i always try to stay close to factory specs on street cars ! I can try some wilds stuff on race cars that i would not take chances on customers street cars... ! when its dyno and rally proven, then i keep some stuff to transpose on street cars race and street engines are NOT built the same ways, and should never be !
scobbyfouette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 08:02 AM   #13
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

On Thursday, I will try to install a JDM ECU from a spec c car that has been transformed into a rally car.
The team's chief said that the keys of the cars they received from Japan are not coded,so this could be a plus for the operation.
If I will have a start up without other further problems,I think that the engine swap work will be on its way...
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 12:05 AM   #14
3MI Racing
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 200987
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: VA
Default

Why are you concerned about swapping the ECU? Are you not able to flash yours?
3MI Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 03:33 PM   #15
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Why are you concerned about swapping the ECU? Are you not able to flash yours?

I'm not sure it will be possible; the EDM/USDM ECU has got different tables for example in the boost target,wastegate duty cycles,ignition advance tables.
Taking as example wastegate's tables,the EDM/USDM has got values until 6400 Rpm and 380 raw ECU value,but the JDM one has got values until 7600 Rpm and 428 raw ECU value.
This is a problem for me,but if there is somebody that could help me will be appreciated.
Today I've tried to install a JDM ECU (from a 2009 spec c) on my EDM 2.5 STI...
After having solved a problem with the immobiliser problem the car STARTED.
But........
- The SI-drive selector was not working
- cruise control was not working
- there was an error regarding ABS/VDC system (I think that could be solved just installing the Jdm ABS unit)

I hadn't been able to enter and modify the Jdm map cause I hadn't got the correct definitions for EcuFlash.
I'm trying now to register myself on Romraider forum but every time there's an error and it doesn't let me go ahead.

Anyone can help me with the map?
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 06:48 AM   #16
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

I have definitions in Romraider.
What year spec C GRB?
An your will have to explore. This is good stuff.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 07:17 AM   #17
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I have definitions in Romraider.
What year spec C GRB?
An your will have to explore. This is good stuff.
Hello, it's a JDM 2009 STI Spec C ,ECU id AZ1G501K

I'm still not able to register in RomRaider Forum,every time it gives me an error regarding the password. If you can ask to an Administrator what do I have to do via private message I'll appreciate.
Thank you
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #18
maverick83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 309577
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

ECU definitions found and registration to Romraider forum done,thanks guys!
maverick83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #19
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

how is your work progressing?
Did you fix the ABS?
How did you get past the immobilizer, did you receive the keys, module and ECU matching?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 06:33 PM   #20
dr20t
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 311246
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Wow I just saw this thread after my last post in feb

So it seems the hypothesis about losing abs and cruise was correct (refer ej207 info thread).

Vlad is pretty much spot on -

My suggestion to use the usdm ej257 manifold was a means for your usdm ecu to recognize all its original sensors and function as per normal

The jdm cam position sensors will line up with your usdm wiring just fine (jdm quad avcs used two pin inlet sensor and three pin exhaust sensor)

In terms of jdm / audm legacy quad avcs - I would like to correct some of the above info

I have an audm quad avcs legacy 5eat auto (ej20y). This has two pin clips for both inlet and exhaust cam sensors

When swapping my grb v10 quad avcs 207 I needed to put my original legacy exhaust cam sensors into the grb heads.

The left side went straight in no mods

The right side needed to be reslotted and modified slightly to line up

Both are Hall effect type I believe - but will soon find out (startup later tonight as its 8am Sydney time ATM)
dr20t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 10:43 AM   #21
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Maverick, if you have any updates or details about your progress and where you are now with it, please post them.
You can also read what has been said this far about this swap and post your findings here:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2385141&page=5
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #22
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick83 View Post
- there was an error regarding ABS/VDC system (I think that could be solved just installing the Jdm ABS unit
Here is what I think:
-A while ago, someone with the USDM Sti GRB, tried to install a fast steering rack, the Qrack. He got the ABS/VDC problem, due to the ECU looking for a slower rack, the angle of motion of the steering did not match what the ECU was looking for.

The JDM Spec C HAS a fast steering rack and the EUDM Sti DOES NOT.
The Spec C ecu thinks there's something wrong with your steering angle, due to the sensor.
It's possible that a fast steering rack, like a Qrack may fix the ABS problem for you. The Spec C is a 13:1, I think and Qrack has a 12.5:1.
You could be at 15:1.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 09:19 AM   #23
dr20t
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 311246
Join Date: Feb 2012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Here is what I think:
-A while ago, someone with the USDM Sti GRB, tried to install a fast steering rack, the Qrack. He got the ABS/VDC problem, due to the ECU looking for a slower rack, the angle of motion of the steering did not match what the ECU was looking for.

The JDM Spec C HAS a fast steering rack and the EUDM Sti DOES NOT.
The Spec C ecu thinks there's something wrong with your steering angle, due to the sensor.
It's possible that a fast steering rack, like a Qrack may fix the ABS problem for you. The Spec C is a 13:1, I think and Qrack has a 12.5:1.
You could be at 15:1.

Wow that is invaluable and detailed info Vlad - that's fantastic to know thank you

As always your info is valid and groundbreaking I think

Mick
dr20t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 09:24 AM   #24
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Thank you
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.