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Old 02-24-2013, 10:44 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
I'd just like to point out the following lines from the original article.

Ferrari has already done so, Lamborghini has too, and now it appears Porsche will also drop the manual gearbox entirely within a few years' time.

With nearly 80 percent of buyers opting for the PDK dual-clutch gearbox over a manual transmission for popular models like the 911 and Cayman, Porsche has recently admitted outright that the conventional manual could be dropped entirely in just a few years. Speaking with The Sydney Morning Herald, Porsche’s R&D chief Bunno Brandlhuber stated that "There are some Porsche enthusiasts who prefer a manual and we will continue to offer this in the meantime.... But maybe one day it will become irrelevant."

The first line states, "now it appears Porsche will also drop the manual gearbox entirely within a few years' time." This is stating with certainty that Porsche is going to get rid of the manual within a few years.

Now the second line states, "Porsche has recently admitted outright that the conventional manual could be dropped entirely in just a few years." Not one sentence later and the author is stating that Porsche may possibly get rid of the manual within a few years. But wait, he just said in the previous sentence that Porsche is going to drop the manual just like Ferrari and Lamborghini.

Finally the actual quote from Brandlhuber that is the basis of this article "...But maybe one day it will become irrelevant." To me when someone says "but maybe one day" that's neither affirmation that the topic of discussion is going to happen, nor going to happen "in just a few years" as the author claims.

This illustrates how bogus the article is.

Will Porsche get rid of the manual some day? Perhaps, but it is highly unlikely that it will be as soon as people are thinking. They just created a 7spd manual gearbox, do you really think they'll just no provide that option a few years after coming out with it?


Also, I was at the PCA Porsche Parade in Salt Lake City this past summer. I attended one of the banquets where I sat at the table next to Wolfgang and Hans-Peter Porsche. During the speech portion of the banquet, Wolfgang spoke about their current lineup and future plans. He spoke about how well received the PDK has been. He also stated that as long as people wanted a manual, Porsche would provide that option.
I'm glad you picked up on that. I really felt like a troll after posting this article - still do, actually - and considered deleting the thread entirely. I didn't really think the thread would devolve the way it has.

Speaking of PCA, I went to one of our local chapter meetings not long after PDK was introduced and PCNA had made a cutaway PDK box available for inspection. Much note was made of the commonalities in parts between it and the manual box; there have been numerous articles on point but this one is pretty concise about it: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept



Because there are so many parts in common between the boxes I'd like to think Porsche is not too put out to continue offering both.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:01 AM   #102
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He also stated that as long as people wanted a manual, Porsche would provide that option.

I am sure he also meant as long as ENOUGH people wanted a manual. Of course, at that price range of a car, they could build just one I guess.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:38 PM   #103
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All this talk about dropping the manual and Porsche is one of the few companies that offers one in an SUV.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #104
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Interesting how it's most focused, track biased models ONLY offer manuals. I.e. the gt3 and RS4.0.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skanky
Interesting how it's most focused, track biased models ONLY offer manuals. I.e. the gt3 and RS4.0.
Obviously they realize that manual is better in spite of the importance of track times.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Skanky View Post
Interesting how it's most focused, track biased models ONLY offer manuals. I.e. the gt3 and RS4.0.
That may not be the case anymore, I think the upcoming 991 GT3 has been said to have the PDK transmission.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:37 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
That may not be the case anymore, I think the upcoming 991 GT3 has been said to have the PDK transmission.

As an option, the GT3 will still have the MT option as well. I think the RS may be PDK only.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:18 PM   #108
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As an option, the GT3 will still have the MT option as well. I think the RS may be PDK only.
Yeah, that's possible, but I only said what I said as a response to the other poster who said that Porsche's more hardcore variants (i.e. GT3) offered ONLY manuals.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:01 PM   #109
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Quote:
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As an option, the GT3 will still have the MT option as well. I think the RS may be PDK only.
...and it looks like that may not be the case now.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:54 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
As an option, the GT3 will still have the MT option as well. I think the RS may be PDK only.
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/03/por...t3-rs-for.html

Quote:
Following the world debut of the new 991-generation Porsche 911 GT3 at this year’s Geneva Motor Show, the German sports car manufacturer has confirmed it is already working on a more hardcore GT3 RS variant.

Porsche’s head of GT series production Andreas Preuninger told Car magazine that a new RS is usually launched "three-quarters of the year" after the GT3 and the 991-generation GT3 RS will be no exception.
In Porsche’s calendar of new model launches, the new 911 GT3 RS follows the new 911 Turbo (expected in the next few months) and the new 918 Spyder supercar (set to debut at the 2013 Frankfurt motor show this autumn). According to Preuninger, the launch date for the new GT3 RS is in early 2014.

With the risk of upsetting Porsche's most hardcore fans, Preuninger said the new RS model will also use the dual-clutch PDK gearbox from the latest GT3, instead of a more traditional manual box like the previous model (pictured), as the PDK "offers more involvement than the manual option." However, the engineer admitted the transmission might be tuned for quicker shifts. The new RS model will also use electric steering, which he said is at least as good as the one on the GT3 RS 4.0.

As the new 911 GT3 will offer increased usability as a daily driver over the previous model, the RS version will have room to become more extreme than before. While the appearance will build on the 911’s classic silhouette, the new RS will have an even bigger wing than the last 997-generation model, pushing the rear firmer to the ground. There could be aerodynamic tweaks on the front too.

Weight-saving measures will include aluminum doors and a titanium exhaust system, among others. As for the 3.8-liter flat-six engine, Preuninger hinted that the new GT3 RS might match the power of the former GT3 RS 4.0 model – that means at least 493bhp. For all these goodies, the price would exceed £120,000 (€139,900/$181,300 at today’s exchange rates).
emphasis mine
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:03 AM   #111
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bolding it does not make it true guys! HAHA

Well porsche has gone full derp. Anybody that says a PDK is more involving than a three pedal car is just drinking the Porsche cool aid. I pray people do not start believing it.

But in todays media biased world, it seems if you say something enough times it becomes true.

It is physically impossible for 2 fingers to be more involving than Two legs, and two arms.

Pedals are more involving than paddles.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:37 PM   #112
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Yeah, I did not understand the logic behind his statement, hence my emphasis.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:21 PM   #113
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Personally, the first mod I do on any car is remove the entire power steering and rack assembly and install a manual steering rack. Followed quickly by removing the power assisted brake assembly.

This absolutely forces me to be more engaged in the driving process.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #114
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Personally, the first mod I do on any car is remove the entire power steering and rack assembly and install a manual steering rack. Followed quickly by removing the power assisted brake assembly.

This absolutely forces me to be more engaged in the driving process.
I'm completely convinced that the "acceptable level" of car tech is what was standard while you were growing up. For SCRAPPY, that just happens to be the Flintstones.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:17 PM   #115
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I'm completely convinced that the "acceptable level" of car tech is what was standard while you were growing up. For SCRAPPY, that just happens to be the Flintstones.

It's all personal experience really. I'm barely 30, and I still prefer MT or any form of automated shifting. I just enjoy it more. I've driven flappy paddle cars and it just made me want to be lazy and throw it in D.

On a race car I can certainly see the use and need, but on my DD or weekend track car, I prefer stirring my own rocks.

Flappy paddle fan boys will never convince people who prefer MT that it's better, and vice versa. We both enjoy our products for different reason. It's like the boobs vs butts argument; different folks, different strokes.

Also, people are inherently lazy, and if there is an easier way to do something that most people aren't "passionate" about they'll do it . Most people just don't care about MT, and that's fine, life is about having a choice to do what you want.

It's a shame that a lot of companies are axing the MT, but why convince people to buy a cheaper product? Certain types and models will probably offer MT for quite some time. Cars more based around tech, I can see it going bye-bye. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Si is flappy paddles only.

I'm just glad I really like older cars, because if it's an automatic, you can change it .
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:19 PM   #116
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Yeah, the blisters on my feet gave me the most horrendous calluses

Look I am only questioning the statement that PDK is more involving. If he said faster, more track oriented, more focused, then I would have to keep my mouth shut, but he dared mention involving. Without knowing what his definition involving is, I have to substitute my own. And an automatic transmission is by its very definition LESS involving.
Even if it is an automated manual. Take away driver interaction and it is less involving.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:45 PM   #117
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I completely agree. Both of my cars (once the ST comes in, that is) are exclusively available as manuals. I like that.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:02 AM   #118
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Yeah, the blisters on my feet gave me the most horrendous calluses

Look I am only questioning the statement that PDK is more involving. If he said faster, more track oriented, more focused, then I would have to keep my mouth shut, but he dared mention involving. Without knowing what his definition involving is, I have to substitute my own. And an automatic transmission is by its very definition LESS involving.
Even if it is an automated manual. Take away driver interaction and it is less involving.
Well, on the other side of the coin (in fairness) read half the responses in this thread from people who don't like the idea of a flappy paddle box, starting with post #3. I get, and I think most people get your position, there are days I don't want to give up my manual.

But posts like that? Saying that a flappy paddle box is par for the course as a status symbol? No sir. Less engaging, I'll grant you that (and agree all day, just as vacuum assisted brakes, power steering, drive by wire, fuel injection, and hydraulic clutches are less engaging), but a flappy paddle box offers proven gains and is a better performance option than a traditional manual. If you follow the method of argument that posts like #3 posit, then F1, Rally, hell, every racing series pretty much except NASCAR is not about performance, but about status.

So post #3 (and not to single that one out, it's just the first example of many) is what most should be arguing with, if at all.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #119
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I get what you are saying sam.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:57 PM   #120
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Apologies for the really crap phone cam pix but just wanted evidence that I parked my heinie in it this morning.





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