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Old 03-03-2013, 05:21 PM   #2376
KC
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Know how many years we've been trying to get an autox at davisville? (Not the airport).

--kC
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #2377
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The 2014 Forester's Owner's Manual and Nav manual went live online today. You can download each chapter as a PDF file.

http://www.subaru.com/owners/resourc...als/index.html

Or you can navigate from Subaru.com home page --> For Owners --> Resource Center --> Get Your Owners Manual.

I just downloaded all sections including nav, and it's 27 files and 94MB.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #2378
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Well, finally drove an XT yesterday and all I can say is...underwhelming. CVT, 2 liter, and tippy suspension make for a frustrating romp. For everyday use I would save the money and opt for the non-turbo. Mileage is better, and acceleration is more than adequate for money outlay. As someone who has owned 2 FXT's, this was a serious letdown. Sure the interior is much improved and there are all sorts of doo-dads and a power liftgate, but those things exist in a non-turbo premium as well. Tow rating also the same.

Could not find the 258 lb ft of torque between 2000 and 4800 rpms. The CVT and sport modes yield similar acceleration (ie felt like automatic BRZ). Paddles complete waste of time. Having just come out of an '06 FXT and into the '14, even the salesman said the '06 felt way faster. Same driving style, same loop. There's just no surge of power when you need it or think you will have it like the old 2.5's had. Published numbers say it's faster, but real world driving says it's not. I was relying on those numbers heading into test drive. As such, underwhelming.

I was expecting more of everything with the new model. Instead there's not enough of what should matter in a turbo sport model to justify the $35K price. I know there will be a lot of criticism of my take from people who haven't driven one, and a lot of "what did you expects," being this is the first review from a forum member. And it's critical. But I'm just being honest as someone who has liked the turbo Foz idea from day one...and has literally bought into it. Twice.

Ugh, back to square one.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:44 PM   #2379
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^^^ Thanks for the review (and setting expectations).
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:49 PM   #2380
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Very disappointing to read but yes, thanks also.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #2381
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Again, I'm sorry guys. Just threw this together as a first impression. First impressions always sells me cars. And I've owned a lot of cars. I'm as bummed as those reading my rambling. Hopefully others will have a positive spin to counter my bummer dude.

edit to say the charge tube sounded like a bong rip. So there's that.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:03 PM   #2382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Well, finally drove an XT yesterday and all I can say is...underwhelming. CVT, 2 liter, and tippy suspension make for a frustrating romp. For everyday use I would save the money and opt for the non-turbo. Mileage is better, and acceleration is more than adequate for money outlay. As someone who has owned 2 FXT's, this was a serious letdown. Sure the interior is much improved and there are all sorts of doo-dads and a power liftgate, but those things exist in a non-turbo premium as well. Tow rating also the same.

Could not find the 258 lb ft of torque between 2000 and 4800 rpms. The CVT and sport modes yield similar acceleration (ie felt like automatic BRZ). Paddles complete waste of time. Having just come out of an '06 FXT and into the '14, even the salesman said the '06 felt way faster. Same driving style, same loop. There's just no surge of power when you need it or think you will have it like the old 2.5's had. Published numbers say it's faster, but real world driving says it's not. I was relying on those numbers heading into test drive. As such, underwhelming.

I was expecting more of everything with the new model. Instead there's not enough of what should matter in a turbo sport model to justify the $35K price. I know there will be a lot of criticism of my take from people who haven't driven one, and a lot of "what did you expects," being this is the first review from a forum member. And it's critical. But I'm just being honest as someone who has liked the turbo Foz idea from day one...and has literally bought into it. Twice.

Ugh, back to square one.
Which mode did you set in Si Drive? Or are you saying every mode sucked?

Also, any idea if the dealership put 87,91 or 93 octane in it?
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:25 PM   #2383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Again, I'm sorry guys. JuHopefully this together as a first impression. First impressions always sells me cars. And I've owned a lot of cars. I'm as bummed as those reading my rambling. Hopefully others will have a positive spin to counter my bummer dude.

edit to say the charge tube sounded like a bong rip. So there's that.
Bubbling or weezing?
Unfortunate news... but it's what I was expecting. Hopefully, the new wrx/sti has a hatch and some usable cargo capacity.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #2384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eps105 View Post
The 2014 Forester's Owner's Manual and Nav manual went live online today. You can download each chapter as a PDF file.

http://www.subaru.com/owners/resourc...als/index.html

Or you can navigate from Subaru.com home page --> For Owners --> Resource Center --> Get Your Owners Manual.

I just downloaded all sections including nav, and it's 27 files and 94MB.
Thanks for noticing this. I'm curious about (but too lazy to download) the section covering recommended fuel for the turbo models. Does it really suggest that 87 AKI gasoline can be used all the time without damaging the engine?

In a related note, the Service Manual for the 2014 Forester is also now available online, but it has many more "pieces" and isn't free. Here's a link to all the sections related to the turbo models:
http://techinfo.subaru.com/search/li...archPub=Search
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:40 PM   #2385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Well, finally drove an XT yesterday and all I can say is...underwhelming. CVT, 2 liter, and tippy suspension make for a frustrating romp. For everyday use I would save the money and opt for the non-turbo. Mileage is better, and acceleration is more than adequate for money outlay. As someone who has owned 2 FXT's, this was a serious letdown. Sure the interior is much improved and there are all sorts of doo-dads and a power liftgate, but those things exist in a non-turbo premium as well. Tow rating also the same.

Could not find the 258 lb ft of torque between 2000 and 4800 rpms. The CVT and sport modes yield similar acceleration (ie felt like automatic BRZ). Paddles complete waste of time. Having just come out of an '06 FXT and into the '14, even the salesman said the '06 felt way faster. Same driving style, same loop. There's just no surge of power when you need it or think you will have it like the old 2.5's had. Published numbers say it's faster, but real world driving says it's not. I was relying on those numbers heading into test drive. As such, underwhelming.

I was expecting more of everything with the new model. Instead there's not enough of what should matter in a turbo sport model to justify the $35K price. I know there will be a lot of criticism of my take from people who haven't driven one, and a lot of "what did you expects," being this is the first review from a forum member. And it's critical. But I'm just being honest as someone who has liked the turbo Foz idea from day one...and has literally bought into it. Twice.

Ugh, back to square one.

The lack of power: does it have anything to do with the fact the motor isn't broken in?

I know nothing of new cars, and their (possible) ECU break in settings. But when my old room mate and I went to the dealership to decide between 2012 XT, and a 3.6 outback for him, the salesman (Warning, I know), told us that the turbo was severely restricted in the XT until proper break in mileage was done.

To say the least, my room mate wasn't happy with the XT, and bought a 3.6.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #2386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoa Beach Bum View Post
Thanks for noticing this. I'm curious about (but too lazy to download) the section covering recommended fuel for the turbo models. Does it really suggest that 87 AKI gasoline can be used all the time without damaging the engine?
Sounds like while the Forester XT can accept 87, Subaru really doesn't want you to even though it won't void your warranty....

Fuel requirements:

Quote:
Non-turbo models
The engine is designed to operate using
unleaded gasoline with an octane rating
of 87 AKI (90 RON) or higher.

Turbo models
The engine is designed to operate at
maximum performance using unleaded
gasoline with an octane rating of 93 AKI
(98 RON) or higher. If 93 AKI (98 RON)
fuel is not readily available, unleaded
gasoline with an octane rating of 91 AKI
(95 RON) or higher may be used with no
detriment to engine durability or driveability.
However, you may notice a slight
decrease in maximum engine performance
while using 91 AKI (95 RON) fuel.
Regular unleaded gasoline with an octane
rating of 87 AKI (90 RON) or higher may
also be used. Using regular unleaded
gasoline will not be detrimental to engine
durability, nor will it affect your warranty
coverage. However, depending on your
driving habits and conditions, you may
notice a decrease in maximum engine
performance, fuel economy or slight engine
vibration or knocking. If you experience
any of these conditions while using a
lower octane rated fuel, you may want to
return to using 91 AKI (95 RON) octane
rated fuel as soon as possible. Additionally,
if your vehicle knocks heavily or
persistently, or if you are driving with
heavy loads such as when towing a trailer,
the use of 91 AKI (95 RON) or higher
grade unleaded gasoline is required.

Fuel octane rating
This octane rating is the average of the
Research Octane and Motor Octane
numbers and is commonly referred to as
the Anti Knock Index (AKI).
Using a gasoline with a lower octane
rating can cause persistent and heavy
knocking, which can damage the engine.
Do not be concerned if your vehicle
sometimes knocks lightly when you drive
up a hill or when you accelerate. Contact
your SUBARU dealer if you use a fuel with
the specified octane rating and your
vehicle knocks heavily or persistently.
Oil info:
Quote:

Non-turbo models
0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil
for optimum engine performance and
protection. Conventional oil may be
used if synthetic oil is unavailable.
*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available,
5W-30 or 5W-40 conventional oil may
be used if replenishment is needed but
should be changed to 0W-20 synthetic
oil at the next oil change.

Turbo models
5W-30 synthetic oil is required for
optimum engine performance and protection.
Conventional oil may be used if
synthetic oil is unavailable.
*: If 5W-30 synthetic oil is not available,
5W-30 or 5W-40 conventional oil may
be used if replenishment is needed but
should be changed to 5W-30 synthetic
oil at the next oil change.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:16 PM   #2387
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Is this the first time we've seen 5W-30 recommended for the FA and FB engines? FA I'm assuming yes, but not 100% on the FB. I thought it also required 0W-20.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:24 PM   #2388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Well, finally drove an XT yesterday and all I can say is...underwhelming. CVT, 2 liter, and tippy suspension make for a frustrating romp. For everyday use I would save the money and opt for the non-turbo. Mileage is better, and acceleration is more than adequate for money outlay. As someone who has owned 2 FXT's, this was a serious letdown. Sure the interior is much improved and there are all sorts of doo-dads and a power liftgate, but those things exist in a non-turbo premium as well. Tow rating also the same.

Could not find the 258 lb ft of torque between 2000 and 4800 rpms. The CVT and sport modes yield similar acceleration (ie felt like automatic BRZ). Paddles complete waste of time. Having just come out of an '06 FXT and into the '14, even the salesman said the '06 felt way faster. Same driving style, same loop. There's just no surge of power when you need it or think you will have it like the old 2.5's had. Published numbers say it's faster, but real world driving says it's not. I was relying on those numbers heading into test drive. As such, underwhelming.

I was expecting more of everything with the new model. Instead there's not enough of what should matter in a turbo sport model to justify the $35K price. I know there will be a lot of criticism of my take from people who haven't driven one, and a lot of "what did you expects," being this is the first review from a forum member. And it's critical. But I'm just being honest as someone who has liked the turbo Foz idea from day one...and has literally bought into it. Twice.

Ugh, back to square one.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to go out and test drive one asap.
However, I fully expect the turbo FA20 power/torque delivery to be quite different than the EJ255 power/torque delivery:
1) 10.6:1 static comp ratio for the FA20 vs 8.6:1 for the EJ255,
2) Turbo mounted very close to the exhaut ports vs half a mile away,
3) and, CVT vs 4-EAT/5MT
--> all of the above means that there should be very little power "surging" to be felt; power/torque should just be there pretty much out of idle.
Again, I'll test drive asap and I'll report back. But, we should not expect the new powertrain to "feel" anything like the old EJ255.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:01 PM   #2389
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The new XT also weighs 350lbs more than the '06. HP and torque figures aren't everything.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #2390
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Tree fiddy is a LOT of weight. Should've put Legacy DIT numbers on that bad boy concerning power and torque. SMH
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:19 PM   #2391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The new XT also weighs 350lbs more than the '06. HP and torque figures aren't everything.
That's for sure. I know 4S is coming from an 06 XT, but, I was thinking about an 09~13 XT vs a 14 XT.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:35 PM   #2392
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I always go by the HP and Torque to weight ratios rather than straight power figures, myself. (With consideration for the transmission and other aspects, of course)
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:11 PM   #2393
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I've had the opportunity to drive for a couple of days in the second generation Subaru Forester XT. I have a third generation myself and I love how the 2014 CVT-equipped drives (turbo of course).

Anyone who believes the published numbers by Subaru to be true will be disappointed. Enough said. I'm pretty sure some automotive journalists (Autoblog or Motortrend, etc.) blatantly said, on their trip to Japan to test drive the 2014, that we would never see that 6.2 second run to 60 no matter what sport mode we used.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #2394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Well, finally drove an XT yesterday and all I can say is...underwhelming. CVT, 2 liter, and tippy suspension make for a frustrating romp. For everyday use I would save the money and opt for the non-turbo. Mileage is better, and acceleration is more than adequate for money outlay. As someone who has owned 2 FXT's, this was a serious letdown. Sure the interior is much improved and there are all sorts of doo-dads and a power liftgate, but those things exist in a non-turbo premium as well. Tow rating also the same.

Could not find the 258 lb ft of torque between 2000 and 4800 rpms. The CVT and sport modes yield similar acceleration (ie felt like automatic BRZ). Paddles complete waste of time. Having just come out of an '06 FXT and into the '14, even the salesman said the '06 felt way faster. Same driving style, same loop. There's just no surge of power when you need it or think you will have it like the old 2.5's had. Published numbers say it's faster, but real world driving says it's not. I was relying on those numbers heading into test drive. As such, underwhelming.

I was expecting more of everything with the new model. Instead there's not enough of what should matter in a turbo sport model to justify the $35K price. I know there will be a lot of criticism of my take from people who haven't driven one, and a lot of "what did you expects," being this is the first review from a forum member. And it's critical. But I'm just being honest as someone who has liked the turbo Foz idea from day one...and has literally bought into it. Twice.

Ugh, back to square one.
hello, can you comment on the "clicking" noise from the direct injection engine? would you say it was louder than your typical direct injection engine?

thanks.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:02 AM   #2395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason330i View Post
hello, can you comment on the "clicking" noise from the direct injection engine? would you say it was louder than your typical direct injection engine?

thanks.

Turn your radio up and you won't hear it.....
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #2396
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As expected, the 0% continues on for the '13 Foresters through at least the end of the month. What really surprised me though is that they are offering 0% on Legacy's. I wonder if its a sign of something new coming? I doubt it, but just doesn't seem like Subaru to offer 0% for no reason
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:51 AM   #2397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schweezly View Post
What really surprised me though is that they are offering 0% on Legacy's. I wonder if its a sign of something new coming? I doubt it, but just doesn't seem like Subaru to offer 0% for no reason
Well, not meeting the sales expectation is a good reason to offer 0% financing. With redesigned Accord and Altima, the competition must be stiff in sun-belt states...
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #2398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schweezly View Post
As expected, the 0% continues on for the '13 Foresters through at least the end of the month. What really surprised me though is that they are offering 0% on Legacy's. I wonder if its a sign of something new coming? I doubt it, but just doesn't seem like Subaru to offer 0% for no reason
Quote:
Originally Posted by banyan View Post
Well, not meeting the sales expectation is a good reason to offer 0% financing. With redesigned Accord and Altima, the competition must be stiff in sun-belt states...

I was thinking they may have made more than needed. Legacy is still selling better and setting records. They sent us WAY more than we need. We are not a big Legacy seller. We are selling better than the 3rd gen by far, but that wasn't much to begin with. We have enough Legacys to last us through the summer at the rate we normally sell them.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #2399
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3.6 limited always intrigues me. On days like today, where were getting 6"-8" of snow in Chicago, AWD would be lovely to have again. It's also the reason I've convinced myself I can't go brz.

Today should also sell a ton of foresters for the local dealers
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:08 AM   #2400
iowasuby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schweezly View Post
As expected, the 0% continues on for the '13 Foresters through at least the end of the month. What really surprised me though is that they are offering 0% on Legacy's. I wonder if its a sign of something new coming? I doubt it, but just doesn't seem like Subaru to offer 0% for no reason
They finance through Chase and Chase is borrowing at 0% from the Federal Reserve too, so no loss in money overall while Subaru makes sales.

I'm still waiting on the review to say which mode he drove the Forester XT in, it makes a difference, we also don't know which Octane it was running, you can lose a LOT of HP running it on 87 octane + the extra 350lbs. it all adds up.
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