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Old 03-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #26
SCRAPPYDO
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is that a manual shifter around 0:33 seconds?
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #27
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no, manual transmission not available anymore
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #28
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no
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:31 PM   #29
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Curses...
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
I watched the whole 12 minute video of the guy apologizing for the car and I still think the rear steering is an awful idea. Hopefully the RS will ditch this and the PDK. Everything else about the car is looking pretty good.
You mistake apologizing for an explanation of decisions. Frankly, I love everything about the new GT3. I never thought I'd say that about something with a DSG as the only transmission. This is the first one that seems to be right. The claim that it's not an automatic gearbox, it's designed to replicate a racing sequential box is intriguing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post
You mistake apologizing for an explanation of decisions. Frankly, I love everything about the new GT3. I never thought I'd say that about something with a DSG as the only transmission. This is the first one that seems to be right. The claim that it's not an automatic gearbox, it's designed to replicate a racing sequential box is intriguing.
It is intriguing, and actually it sounds awesome. Can't complain about a car that makes noises like a WRC car... but wait... yes you can because it still weighs more than the shift it yourself option. Same thing with the rear steering. I'm sure it's wonderful, but is it wonderful enough to justify the weight? It probably is to the people they are marketing this GT3 to, but it isn't to me.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #32
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You mistake apologizing for an explanation of decisions. Frankly, I love everything about the new GT3. I never thought I'd say that about something with a DSG as the only transmission. This is the first one that seems to be right. The claim that it's not an automatic gearbox, it's designed to replicate a racing sequential box is intriguing.
Yup, I'm on board with these changes. Legitimately making it a better, more fun car.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:37 PM   #33
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more fun is an opinion.
Had to say it.
If less engaging is more fun, then yes.

No matter how many times you say it, it will not make it true.

Faster does not mean more fun.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:00 PM   #34
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maybe, when the GT3 RS will see the light, maybe than there will be the option for a manual transmission
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:42 PM   #35
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So does this mean this is the route the rest of the Porsche cars will go (Cayman S/R, 911 Turbo, Boxter S)? Too bad they don't offer manual as an option any longer.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by skywaffles View Post
You mistake apologizing for an explanation of decisions. Frankly, I love everything about the new GT3. I never thought I'd say that about something with a DSG as the only transmission. This is the first one that seems to be right. The claim that it's not an automatic gearbox, it's designed to replicate a racing sequential box is intriguing.
I don't know. It did sound like he was apologizing at some level. We can debate the choice of transmission as a matter of taste, but the fact that its engine is now much closer to the regular 911 engine is certainly something he had to explain very carefully, as regardless of the performance of the new engine, it takes a bit of mystique away from the GT3 name plate. Add to that the electric steering, which the guy claims is just as good as the old rack because they tweaked the software (I doubt this very much), and he did have some 'splaining to do.

I don't doubt that this is an amazing car to drive, and objectively better than the outgoing GT3, but overall one could say it is a less bespoke machine than it used to be, which counts for a lot at this price range.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:59 PM   #37
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manual is going the way carburetors did, wont be long before they are extinct for good.. i give it 10 years.. we are living in the age of cars that drive themselves, cant get less engaging than that
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #38
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manual is going the way carburetors did, wont be long before they are extinct for good.. i give it 10 years.. we are living in the age of cars that drive themselves, cant get less engaging than that
Lane departure warning, Eyesight, auto cruise control, auto wiper blades, auto gear box and not long before we get GPS driven cars with auto throttle control. Jump in. Strap in. Plug in coordinates. Text away and tweet as your car drives you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:22 PM   #39
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more fun is an opinion.
Had to say it.
If less engaging is more fun, then yes.

No matter how many times you say it, it will not make it true.

Faster does not mean more fun.
Did you watch the video? Or are we just getting upset over a missing manual transmission? Afterall, the only way to have fun is rowing your own. Let's raise hands of who has actually driven a 911 on a track. I did with the PDK and it was a riot. When you are going that fast on a track, pushing a pedal with your left foot doesn't make or break the "fun".

The rear wheel steering supposedly makes the car feel smaller and more lively. That sounds like more fun to me.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:14 PM   #40
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My gosh did reading comprehension drop on NASIOC in the past 5 years!!

Have I ever said a PDK is NO fun at all. Have I ever even one time said that. I have always said I think 3 pedals would be MORE fun.

You guys argue in absolutes, when nothing in this world is that simple black/white.

I just said that a manual transmission is more engaging and to me that means more fun.

What part of that do you people not understand. As much fun as a PDK is, I am sure I would enjoy having a third pedal.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:20 PM   #41
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Dude, you are the guy that operates only in absolutes. It is impossible for the PDK to be more fun because you'd driven both on pedestrian vehicles in the past, and the stick was more fun, and that is law. Putting ones self in the target market of this car (lots of money, Porsche track rat that can be used as a daily driver), I can see the PDK being the better choice. Buy a BRZ or Miata for 1/5th the money if you want to spend your track time perfecting your heel toe downshift. Why buy what is effectively a very fast, streetable track car and then make it slower because you want to feel more engaged? When I buy my FR-S, it will be a 6MT because the most track time it will see is auto-x. I can't afford to trash my $25k toy car at the track. If you can pay the $100k+ entry fee for a GT3, a streetable track car, you aren't out there for the connection to the machine. You are out there to go as fast as possible. If this were a more normal 911, MT all the way. When you are one step removed from a GT3 RS, I think that the PDK starts to make a lot more sense.

My personal opinion is that 90% of the "MT only" crowd would simply be overwhelmed with a car with this capability and a stick shift. My limited experience with a 911 on the track just showed how out of my element I was in a car that capable driven that hard.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Dude, you are the guy that operates only in absolutes. It is impossible for the PDK to be more fun because you'd driven both on pedestrian vehicles in the past, and the stick was more fun, and that is law. Putting ones self in the target market of this car (lots of money, Porsche track rat that can be used as a daily driver), I can see the PDK being the better choice. Buy a BRZ or Miata for 1/5th the money if you want to spend your track time perfecting your heel toe downshift. Why buy what is effectively a very fast, streetable track car and then make it slower because you want to feel more engaged? When I buy my FR-S, it will be a 6MT because the most track time it will see is auto-x. I can't afford to trash my $25k toy car at the track. If you can pay the $100k+ entry fee for a GT3, a streetable track car, you aren't out there for the connection to the machine. You are out there to go as fast as possible. If this were a more normal 911, MT all the way. When you are one step removed from a GT3 RS, I think that the PDK starts to make a lot more sense.
I think the answer is a combination of your response and SCRAPPY's. Some want a third pedal because they want a third pedal. Some don't want a third pedal because they want a faster PDK. Simple as that. It is personal preference but it still sucks Porsche won't even offer a manual as an option. This is suppose to be a driver's car and many drivers prefer a three pedal setup.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:06 PM   #43
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You know if Porsche's intent was to create a pure race car for the street, then a PDK for this car takes it one step closer to that. I can see the vision Porsche is going after.

Quentinberg, yes, I do think that the same car with a 3 pedal setup is more fun than a two pedal set up. That is my opinion. A 3 pedal car is more engaging than a 2 pedal car, and that is fact. I do not think for one second that a 3 pedal car will best a PDK car on any track in the world all other things being equal. I am not that disillusioned. I am just stubborn. And I value engagement over a tenth of a second or two. I know I am dying breed. Just do not ask me to go quietly.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:05 PM   #44
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Scrappy - you are not the only purist here.

I love, love, love technology. I'm an engineer for Pete's sake. But I believe that pitchers should bat, even though a DH will get more offense.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:35 AM   #45
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For the first time, I think that whale tale wing looks small on the 991.

Anyways, I favor a manual, but Porsche gotta do what they gotta do to keep the 911 competitive. If a PDK is what customers wants and performance analysis results in great improvement, put it there.

I'd rather see the GT3 continue to be produced than to disappear. These cars were build for racing in the beginning, so pushing the latest technology is a must in order to stay competitive and there's not much to improve upon mechanically
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #46
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For the first time, I think that whale tale wing looks small on the 991.

Anyways, I favor a manual, but Porsche gotta do what they gotta do to keep the 911 competitive. If a PDK is what customers wants and performance analysis results in great improvement, put it there.

I'd rather see the GT3 continue to be produced than to disappear. These cars were build for racing in the beginning, so pushing the latest technology is a must in order to stay competitive and there's not much to improve upon mechanically
Agreed. The C, C4, CS, or C4S are your 911s for the purist that wants to row their own (street cars you can track). The GT3 changes the definition to track cars you can still DD. GT3 RS is another step to being less streetable but more track worthy. For example, I bet the 991 turbo model will still come with a stick shift. I bet the GT2 will not, though.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:29 AM   #47
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Agreed. The C, C4, CS, or C4S are your 911s for the purist that wants to row their own (street cars you can track). The GT3 changes the definition to track cars you can still DD. GT3 RS is another step to being less streetable but more track worthy. For example, I bet the 991 turbo model will still come with a stick shift. I bet the GT2 will not, though.
Well said.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:32 AM   #48
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So this car has rear wheel steering huh? I thought I read that up there somewhere

I wonder how that is going to last. It has been tried many times, and always dropped later. Mitsu tried it, Honda tried it, Nissan tried it, now Porsche...

It will be interesting.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:13 AM   #49
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The Lexus GS350 F Sport has 4WS. All of the reviews have been very good. I guess it comes down to cost and take rate. I think it would be more likely to stick on the $130k GT3.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:53 AM   #50
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Isn't the constant battle to keep the car from becoming backwards what defines the Porsche 911 driving experience? Won't 4WS eliminate that once and for all? For the better I suppose.
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