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Old 03-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #3576
Zauri
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another tank of 275. Filled at 11.6 gallons. 23.7 mpg. I'll give you one thing. This has been a consistent output for me no matter how fast or slow I drive. Past few tanks have been fully lead footed, heat usually on blast with rear defrost, and heated seats on high, also I rarely let this car warm up.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:01 AM   #3577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauri View Post
This has been a consistent output for me no matter how fast or slow I drive.
I find this VERY difficult to believe. How fast or slow you drive makes a huge fuel economy difference.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:08 AM   #3578
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
I find this VERY difficult to believe. How fast or slow you drive makes a huge fuel economy difference.
I have tried to nancy this car. I have a very short commute less than 10 miles to a bus stop. My initial fuel ups on fuelly were all done with slow uninspired driving(i'll go grab the chart from a prev post).





The best I pulled of of a tank with this commute was 330. Since then even with these attempts to actually drive slow most of my tanks have been < 300.. so the last 3 fuel ups I drive how I feel like it (a bat out of hell).. Still seeing around 275(have yet to see less) regardless...

I actually expected less but so far this car has held up on that end. I just can't break 350 unless I'm on the highway. Both tanks you see up there > 350 are mixed highway. Everything else > 330 is my standard commute with one highway drive on the weekend.

Now keep in mind I fuel up as soon as I get down to one bar, but the MPG's are fairly consistent nonetheless. So if i ran this car all the way to E I'm sure I'd get near 300 mi if not a bit more

Last edited by Zauri; 03-05-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:14 AM   #3579
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Yeah, I can imagine that your short trips to the bus stop are brutal to fuel economy. The engine is just reaching peak efficiency when you arrive at the bus stop.

Hate to say it, but you sound like a perfect candidate for an EV or plug-in hybrid car (and if your bus stop has plug-in charging stations, then that's even better).
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:25 AM   #3580
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Assuming all roads are flat and there is no wind, acceleration uses a lot of fuel. Short trips will spend a larger portion of the time under acceleration. Maximum cruising efficiency is around 50-60 mph. If you spend more time holding that steady speed, you will see higher total MPG numbers. If you spend more time under acceleration conditions, you will see lower total MPG numbers. These are general statements to the nature of fuel efficiency. Actual numbers may vary.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #3581
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I understand that short commutes hurt fuel economy. However the effect short commutes have on the Impreza far exceeds that of most vehicles. My wife has a rather short commute to and from work and is receiving under 22mpg on the last 5 tanks in our Impreza. My sister owns a 2011 rogue awd which is ratted at 22/26 and she has an even shorter commute and is still able to get 21 mpg. If you compare the fuel economy of the Impreza to that of the Rogue you would expect to see much better numbers out of the Impreza but that is not the case. If I knew this was the case we certainly would have purchased a small suv like a Rogue or Tucson over the Impreza. And for those who say we should sell it if we are not happy I would say financially that would make no sense and therefore out of the question.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:47 AM   #3582
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Originally Posted by 2012ISport View Post
the effect short commutes have on the Impreza far exceeds that of most vehicles.
This x 1000. I don't mind small deviations from EPA ratings. All cars have them but this car can easily run a gap of 5 mpg's not from just AVG but also the city rating. 27/30/36. to be pulling an AVG of or less than 25-26 even with short commutes just seems a bit ridiculous.

The upside is these cars DO hold their value better than most so unless you financed at a ridiculous interest rate you could still have an upside on trade ins, but must don't have the luxury of just "selling a car" after finding out intended performance is unsatisfactory. Anyone that would suggest such is a tool..
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:09 AM   #3583
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If you have a 2012 you are lucky because included in the EPA mandated MPG numbers on your window sticker is an "Expected Range for most drivers".

I know everybody wants to be special, and be the person at the top and not the bottom of the range, but it is really just about how you drive the car and the type of driving you do. I could increase my MPG's by taking a highway route to work, but it would take me more time than my backroads route, so it would be stupid to change my drive just to increase my MPG's.

As far as the low CITY numbers, keep in mind that the EPA does not test the "CITY" MPG by starting a cold engine repeatedly. It is a 30 minute dyno run, so the majority of the rating comes from driving a hot engine at varying speeds, stops, and go.

If your driving is not similar, you will not achieve results close to what the EPA achieved.

It's already established, stop/go, heavy foot, or short trips with a cold engine (especially in the Winter with ethanol gas) is not going to give you the CITY number.

As far as driving over 70mph and expecting EPA numbers, that is a pipe dream as well, and reflects a misunderstanding of how the EPA tests the car to derive the HWY MPG number printed on the Window Sticker.

Ignorance can be dispelled, the EPA tells you the basics of the testing procedures here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

And for the record my car gets much better mpg's than my wife's rogue (CVT) that I also drive.

Last edited by Zeeper; 03-05-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #3584
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That fueleconomy.gov link is great. Notice the following interesting things:
  • The City test lasts for 31 minutes, and the engine starts cold but is then able to run hot for most of the test.
  • The Highway test is conducted with an engine that is already hot, and the maximum speed never exceeds 60 mph.
  • The High Speed test looks nasty, with stop-and-go driving and speeds as high as 80 mph.
  • The Cold Temperature test looks just like the City test, but with colder outside temps.
  • Apparently the EPA somehow uses the High Speed, Air Conditioning, and Cold Temperature tests to temper what otherwise would have been overly optimistic City/Highway tests alone. But I couldn't find a detailed explanation of how the EPA blends these new tests into the old City/Highway calculations.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:36 AM   #3585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

If you have a 2012 you are lucky because included in the EPA mandated MPG numbers on your window sticker is an "Expected Range for most drivers".

Keep in mind that the EPA does not test the "CITY" MPG by starting a cold engine repeatedly. It is a 30 minute dyno run, so the majority of the rating comes from driving a hot engine at varying speeds, stops, and go.

If your driving is not similar, you will not achieve results close to what the EPA achieved.

It's already established, stop/go, heavy foot, or short trips with a cold engine (especially in the Winter with ethanol gas) is not going to give you the CITY number.

As far as driving over 70mph and expecting EPA numbers, that is a pipe dream as well, and reflects a misunderstanding of the EPA testing criteria and ignorance of how the EPA tests the car to derive the HWY MPG number printed on the Window Sticker.

Ignorance can be dispelled, the EPA tells you the basics of the testing procedures here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
Talk about "beating a dead horse". I understand how the epa testing is done and I am sure Subaru was able to fine tune the CVT to be most efficient under these conditions. However by doing this they will end up with a bunch of disappointed owners and many like myself that will not purchase another Subaru. Instead like many other manufacturers they should have tuned the vehicle to perform well under various driving conditions and not just around the epa test guidelines. This would in turn cost them sales in the short term but in the long term I think they would have a more satisfied customer base.

In closing I blame this all on the government for putting pressure on the car makers to increase the fuel efficiency of new vehicles. For this reason I think you will see many more new cars on the road that will perform poorly when it comes to real world fuel economy. Car makers will learn how to play the game and take advantage of the system just like many of those on welfare have learned to do.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #3586
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Just like all the Hyundai owners who were disappointed not to get the promised 40mpg?

At least that was established as fraud, everyone here is just complaining that the type of driving they do (that is not the type the EPA tests) is not resulting in the EPA numbers...

You realize that if car manufacturers are chasing MPG's, which they all are, your purchasing options are going to get very limited every time you promise never to buy another car from any manufacturer that does not meet your expectations.

Really, you should have just bought a prius, where you can meet your MPG expectations while hating every other thing about it...Who cares if it costs more to buy, you will eventually make that up from the savings in gas, right? (do the math to see how long it might take)

Meanwhile someone will buy your used subaru and enjoy it for what it is, an overall well performing AWD car that delivers very decent fuel economy -- exactly why Consumer Reports recommends it as a best buy, two years in a row! Their recommendation will help you sell it fast!

Love, it's what...

Last edited by Zeeper; 03-05-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #3587
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What I don't get about this thread is how many people can simply say that for us that get crappy fuel economy that they don't believe it or it isn't possible. So happy for you that you're getting great MPG but the fact of the matter is that we KNOW you are & aren't harassing you for being happy with your fuel economy. So why not just be happy & read & smile to yourself that AT LEAST IT'S NOT YOU! No one here is questioning your good fuel economy so ****! (& that means you Zeeper) How many threads can you literally just regurgitate the same old BS. Everyone knows you have no oil burning problems and are happy with your MPG.

Truth is there's more than a few of us getting horrible MPG numbers. We're all perfectly aware of how driving habits affect our numbers & how the EPA numbers aren't guaranteed & how EPA tests are based. We're aware we bought an AWD car. Doesn't mean it's okay. I also drive my fathers 2011 Outback with a CVT too with the exact same driving habits & get the expected numbers yet can't with this car. That's an AWD & a Subaru too so there goes some of your theories. My friend's WRX gets the same #s as me in the winter. There's more to it. & we have reason to be upset.

I'm "over it" or have "accepted" it but still plan on my dealer doing the fuel consumption test because they're encouraging it. They want enough numbers to present to Subaru because they have so many fuel economy complaints. Hmmm.

But even though I may be okay with it because otherwise it would drive me mad, quit trying to tell those complaining why we're getting bad numbers or how amazing of a driver you are or how your freakin VW TDI did. (That damn VW pops up on half the threads here.)

Last edited by SleepNMnky; 03-09-2013 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #3588
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I love this thread.
My dash is consistently showing over 30 mpg now by the way. Amazing how changing the drive impacts mileage.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:55 AM   #3589
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well said, SleepNmnky. and this is coming from someone who is seeing decent mileage.

even though i have a lifetime ~29MPG on my car (29.7 on computer, 28.7 hand calc'd after odometer error corrections) over about 9000 miles, i see why people are disappointed.

this car, rated at 27/36mpg gets lower mileage for city, highway, and combined than my 2000 Civic which was rated at 26/32 (after the mid 2000's adjustment...) in similar driving conditions, i would be seeing about 32 or so.

in my own experience, even driving it gently, it does so much worse than would be expected when it is cold (not just outside, but starting from my garage) for short trips. yes, all cars perform poorly when the engine isn't up to temp, but the Impreza does worse relative to all cars i've owned. similarly, while all cars lose some fuel economy going over 70mph, this car does noticeably worse than others i've owned.

did Subaru game the numbers like some people suggest? i actually doubt it...the EPA tests don't account for the areas where the Impreza performs poorly (warm up, higher than 70mph, hills (?i don't have as much data to comment on this thoroughly?) )

what i would love hear/see is the rationale for how Subaru "tuned" the cat converter during warm up for potential emission reduction reasons. it's my guess that this programming would explain a good portion of lower than expected numbers some people have experienced. i don't have much experience with the hills issue, but it seems likely this is a CVT programming issue. and finally, for over 70mph mileage/range, i am left scratching my head



Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepNMnky View Post
What I don't get about this thread is how many people can simply say that for us that get crappy fuel economy that they don't believe it or it isn't possible. So happy for you that you're getting great MPG but the fact of the matter is that we KNOW you are & aren't harassing you for being happy with your fuel economy. So why not just be happy & read & smile to yourself that AT LEAST IT'S NOT YOU! No one here is questioning your good fuel economy so ****! (& that means you Zeeper) How many threads can you literally just regurgitate the same old BS. Everyone knows you have no oil burning problems and are happy with your MPG.

Truth is there's more than a few of us getting horrible MPG numbers. We're all perfectly aware of how driving habits affect out driving & how the EPA numbers aren't guaranteed & how EPA tests are based. We're aware we bought an AWD car. Doesn't mean it's okay. I also drive my fathers 2011 Outback with a CVT too with the exact same driving habits & get the expected numbers yet can't with this car. That's an AWD & a Subaru too so there goes some of your theories. My friend's WRX gets the same #s as me in the winter. There's more to it. & we have reason to be upset.

I'm "over it" or have "accepted" it but still plan on my dealer doing the fuel consumption test because they're encouraging it. They want enough numbers to present to Subaru because they have so many fuel economy complaints. Hmmm.

But even though I may be okay with it because otherwise it would drive me mad, quit trying to tell those complaining why we're getting bad numbers or how amazing of a driver you are or how you're freakin VW did. (That damn VW pops up on half the threads here.)
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:56 AM   #3590
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I love this thread.
My dash is consistently showing over 30 mpg now by the way. Amazing how changing the drive impacts mileage.
I am so happy for you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #3591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
"Expected Range for most drivers".
Everybody keeps forgetting that. All they see is the big bold 36 and when they're flying down the road they're like this is BS!!!!!

I guarantee I could get 36mpg or more simply by changing my route to and from work (same distance just slower speeds) and my drving habits. I say this because when I left for work yesterday, my DTE indicated 290 miles. When I arrived at work (50 miles later) it said 300 miles.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:06 PM   #3592
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Everybody keeps forgetting that. All they see is the big bold 36 and when they're flying down the road they're like this is BS!!!!!
Not at all
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:22 PM   #3593
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Originally Posted by 2012ISport View Post

I am so happy for you.
It's all city too.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:02 PM   #3594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepNMnky View Post
What I don't get about this thread is how many people can simply say that for us that get crappy fuel economy that they don't believe it or it isn't possible. So happy for you that you're getting great MPG but the fact of the matter is that we KNOW you are & aren't harassing you for being happy with your fuel economy. So why not just be happy & read & smile to yourself that AT LEAST IT'S NOT YOU! No one here is questioning your good fuel economy so ****! (& that means you Zeeper) How many threads can you literally just regurgitate the same old BS. Everyone knows you have no oil burning problems and are happy with your MPG.

Truth is there's more than a few of us getting horrible MPG numbers. We're all perfectly aware of how driving habits affect our numbers & how the EPA numbers aren't guaranteed & how EPA tests are based. We're aware we bought an AWD car. Doesn't mean it's okay. I also drive my fathers 2011 Outback with a CVT too with the exact same driving habits & get the expected numbers yet can't with this car. That's an AWD & a Subaru too so there goes some of your theories. My friend's WRX gets the same #s as me in the winter. There's more to it. & we have reason to be upset.

I'm "over it" or have "accepted" it but still plan on my dealer doing the fuel consumption test because they're encouraging it. They want enough numbers to present to Subaru because they have so many fuel economy complaints. Hmmm.

But even though I may be okay with it because otherwise it would drive me mad, quit trying to tell those complaining why we're getting bad numbers or how amazing of a driver you are or how you're freakin VW did. (That damn VW pops up on half the threads here.)
OMG - TY - Well said. The best part is trying to explain to us what we are experiencing and not even having a CVT. And please stop saying that all we are doing is complaining and to do something already. I have filed a complaint weeks ago and have a case# with SOA. WE KNOW HOW TO DRIVE, and how it affects MPG's. Did you think I was lying or something when I stated no matter what I do I can't achieve the advertised MPG's. Read sleepNMnkey's post carefully. Uggh, this is why you are a tool.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:29 PM   #3595
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Now you guys are just insulting each other... lol

Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:05 PM   #3596
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Now you guys are just insulting each other... lol

Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya
LOL. If you guys getting good mpg's with CVT's got together to sing Kumbaya it would be a pretty small group.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:45 AM   #3597
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in another thread, there is someone who just reported having 81,000 miles on his cvt, he is averaging 32mpg with snow tires, and 34 without...
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:52 AM   #3598
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
in another thread, there is someone who just reported having 81,000 miles on his cvt, he is averaging 32mpg with snow tires, and 34 without...

flyboy1100 clearly that is a statistical anomaly, clearly he does not yet have enough miles nor has the motor been broken in correctly to get these wonderous numbers. Be reasonable the dude drives 65mph my time is important to me because I need to get to the factory to beat some more horses to death. I don't have time to drive that slow

/ sarcasm
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:34 PM   #3599
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Fun thread....I think I am going to pull the trigger on a new Legacy CVT. Based on Fuelly and the forums I've read the 2.5 CVT delivers the EPA estimated numbers. The Impreza 2.0 will likely only gets 1 or maybe 2 MPG better. I'll take the power and space of the Legacy. Also I want the range of that 18.5 gallon tank!

My wife has an '11 Outback 2.5 CVT. I don't even bother trying to track average or city fuel economy. But on all our long highway trips we get the advertised 29 mpg - typically cruising at 72 MPH.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:36 PM   #3600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
Yeah, I can imagine that your short trips to the bus stop are brutal to fuel economy. The engine is just reaching peak efficiency when you arrive at the bus stop.

Hate to say it, but you sound like a perfect candidate for an EV or plug-in hybrid car (and if your bus stop has plug-in charging stations, then that's even better).
Or drive 10 minutes from your house in the opposite direction from the bus stop, turn around, and then drive to the bus stop.

Your MPG's will improve dramatically when the drive (longer distance, warmed up engine) more closely resembles the test that the EPA uses to provide the CITY mpg number.

Of course it will waste time, and the MPG increased gas savings will be offset by the longer distance, but if MPG's are that important, there is a way to achieve them.

Last edited by Zeeper; 03-06-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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