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Old 02-23-2013, 11:18 PM   #76
stlnation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
This has been the understanding, as far as the front oxygen sensor, use a 16bit front sensor, so from a WRX '02-'05.
What about the rear sensor? Mine was damaged in shipping?
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:53 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by stlnation View Post
What about the rear sensor? Mine was damaged in shipping?
Just turn off the CEL code, no need to run a rear sensor.

or use the WRX sensor since that part of the harness is the same no matter what engine you have.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:50 AM   #78
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More info: the compression ratio of a GRB/GDB hybrid engine, would remain unchanged.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:00 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by WelDun1 View Post
Any info on the ver6 ej207dw2pr would be awesome! I just bought a complete ver6 STi RA Half-cut with everything, basically the whole car. It just had to be cut to come into the states unfortunately.
But yeah, any info on the ver6 ej207 would be cool. I just wanna know more about the internals. I think they are forged , but not 100% on that, so it would.be sweet to get more information!
I've owned two V5 STi Type RA 555 WRC Limited and have rebuilt the engines.

V5/V6 is the first Phase 2 EJ207, it uses a single coil pack. It's designed to run to 8000rpm without issue. It uses under bucket shims on the camshaft.

V5/V6 STi engine is the same internally. It uses Forged pistons.

Rods are the limiting factor on safe power, the V8 rods are stronger.

Crank has the same thrust location as the later engines on the V5/V6, it is not nitrided or crossdrilled.

Block is an open deck design.

The STi V5/V6 engine is the same spec as used in the P1.

Last edited by johnfelstead; 02-24-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #80
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Well put together
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:10 PM   #81
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I've owned two V5 STi Type RA 555 WRC Limited and have rebuilt the engines.

V5/V6 is the first Phase 2 EJ207, it uses a single coil pack. It's designed to run to 8000rpm without issue. It uses under bucket shims on the camshaft.

V5/V6 STi engine is the same internally. It uses Forged pistons.

Rods are the limiting factor on safe power, the V8 rods are stronger.

Crank has the same thrust location as the later engines on the V5/V6, it is not nitrided or crossdrilled.

Block is an open deck design.

The STi V5/V6 engine is the same spec as used in the P1.
Hey thanks john! I appreciate it. Also, I've heard from others that the Ver6 RA has Big Ports..True? I haven't ripped anything apart yet.
You said that it uses an under bucket shim, by any chance do you know what the rod bearing journal size is? 48mm or 52mm. I'm looking to buy some ACLs , and.I'm not sure which ones to get. I'm also getting pistons, rods, and if I have enough, cams. I don't want to do the Wisco, eagle combo everyone seems to do. I was thinking more of a all Brian Crower Piston, Rod,Cam set, or HKS Forged Piston set, BC rods, and Jun cams. The Jun Cams are kinda spendy tho. I Haven't decided, but when I went to order the bearings, I couldn't find if they were 48 or 52. Any Ingo would be great.

You said that you owned a ra wrc limited!?! How did you like it? Compared to w/e else ur Rollin now?!?
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by WelDun1 View Post
Hey thanks john! I appreciate it. Also, I've heard from others that the Ver6 RA has Big Ports..True? I haven't ripped anything apart yet.
You said that it uses an under bucket shim, by any chance do you know what the rod bearing journal size is? 48mm or 52mm. I'm looking to buy some ACLs , and.I'm not sure which ones to get. I'm also getting pistons, rods, and if I have enough, cams. I don't want to do the Wisco, eagle combo everyone seems to do. I was thinking more of a all Brian Crower Piston, Rod,Cam set, or HKS Forged Piston set, BC rods, and Jun cams. The Jun Cams are kinda spendy tho. I Haven't decided, but when I went to order the bearings, I couldn't find if they were 48 or 52. Any Ingo would be great.

You said that you owned a ra wrc limited!?! How did you like it? Compared to w/e else ur Rollin now?!?
Rod bearing is 52mm (4B8296H), main bearing is rear thrust position (5M8309H)

What sort of power are you looking for?

Loved my STi5 RA Ltd, it had some nice factory features most dont, like the 13:1 quickrack and Helical front LSD. Dampers were nicely setup for the road but on track would fade after 10 miles of hard use. I didnt like the gearing between 4th and 5th, they were fitted with the later RA 1st-4th then the STi 5th, which just didnt work, so i put an RA 5th in there.

Currently run a Widetrack Blobeye JDM STi with aprox 500BHP/540Lbft, this is a lot quicker, my first RA was 300/300, 2nd RA 370/350.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:39 AM   #83
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Rod bearing is 52mm (4B8296H), main bearing is rear thrust position (5M8309H)

What sort of power are you looking for?

Loved my STi5 RA Ltd, it had some nice factory features most dont, like the 13:1 quickrack and Helical front LSD. Dampers were nicely setup for the road but on track would fade after 10 miles of hard use. I didnt like the gearing between 4th and 5th, they were fitted with the later RA 1st-4th then the STi 5th, which just didnt work, so i put an RA 5th in there.

Currently run a Widetrack Blobeye JDM STi with aprox 500BHP/540Lbft, this is a lot quicker, my first RA was 300/300, 2nd RA 370/350.
Right on bro. Thanx for the info. I'm looking to be around the 400bhp mark. And after weighing all my options, I think I actually am going with the Coated Wiseco's and/or Eagles or Manley Rods. I really want the JUN cam set, but head work is Guna have to wait for now.

I'm on a $3k-$4k build budget from scratch, so after the Apexi FC, boost control, turbo timer,Piston,Rods,Bearings.. that's about $2500 right there, my buddy is Fabbing me a down pipe, which he is hooking it up for $400 which is cheap as hell for his work. He makes fresh ass custom Fabricated parts. So after that, I think I'm ordering a Killer B oil pan baffle/pick up kit for $250 and a 06 STi 11mm oil pump & pan, the rest of my budget is getting blown on Suspension & other little parts that I don't have left from previous projects.
My biggest problem at the moment is finding a shell car. Ive looked high & low for a 93-95, but Nada damn thing. Actually found one about 100 miles away, but he wants $1500 for a 93 with blown tranny. I told him he can keep the rs wheels and anything else, and ill give him $500 lol. I found a 95 in pick n pull, but the guy said they can't sell the VIN# or some weird crap, I didn't want to argue with him so...But other than that, it is scarce around these parts.

So that's what's in the making right now. I know ill end up over budget, but can't be too much, cuz ya can't spend what ya don't have! Haha.. it would be nice to upgrade the turbo, but I'm sure the vf29 can handle this build for now. I'll end up getting another HKS gt35, but further down the road.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:11 PM   #84
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VF29 will get you a safe 300/300, maybe 310 if you wring it's neck, which is not advisable as they throw turbine blades above 1.6BAR.

For 400BHP you dont need to touch the heads or cams.

Manley rods are up to the job, no point spending big money when you have a perfectly good rod available at a great price. Take a look at Mahle pistons, i prefer them to wiseco, at that power you could use the lower expansion material version, rather than the outright high power 2618 high expansion material, the low expansion material will be a quieter piston option.

Dont use an 11mm pump, it's overkill for this engine, all it will do is heat the oil up as more gets bypassed back to the sump via the Pressure regulator. A good condition 10mm pump is what you want, make sure you polish the pressure relief valve.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:42 AM   #85
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I need an answer from some of you knowledgable folks. I have a stroked ej20 bottom end and a set of v9 sti heads. I will be running this setup on a v7 ecu so I can take advantage of the avcs. My question is, will I be able to swap in my usdm 05 ecu for initial startup and emissions purposes? I need it for initial start because it is already scaled for my injectors and Maf, and i need to pass emissions in Ct. I haven't been able to find any conclusive info on this. I know that the cam sensors between the s20 heads and t20's are in different locations. I will be using ia performances bulkhead and engine wiring kits for the avcs, What will i need to do to make this work? My usdm ecu already has the tgv codes deleted and forced for readiness. I guess my real question is how can the usdm ecu work with the different cam sensors? Please help. I'm confused lol
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:43 PM   #86
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I need an answer from some of you knowledgable folks. I have a stroked ej20 bottom end and a set of v9 sti heads. I will be running this setup on a v7 ecu so I can take advantage of the avcs. My question is, will I be able to swap in my usdm 05 ecu for initial startup and emissions purposes? I need it for initial start because it is already scaled for my injectors and Maf, and i need to pass emissions in Ct. I haven't been able to find any conclusive info on this. I know that the cam sensors between the s20 heads and t20's are in different locations. I will be using ia performances bulkhead and engine wiring kits for the avcs, What will i need to do to make this work? My usdm ecu already has the tgv codes deleted and forced for readiness. I guess my real question is how can the usdm ecu work with the different cam sensors? Please help. I'm confused lol
Should be no trouble at all I did the same thing with mine years ago after the swap I was waiting on an engine and avcs harness. I used my 05 usdm ecu tuned for the ej207 for a few weeks with no issues.

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Old 03-25-2013, 07:07 AM   #87
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Super late, totally forgot what I was Guna say... Haha.

Last edited by WelDun1; 03-25-2013 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:17 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by johnfelstead View Post
VF29 will get you a safe 300/300, maybe 310 if you wring it's neck, which is not advisable as they throw turbine blades above 1.6BAR.

For 400BHP you dont need to touch the heads or cams.

Manley rods are up to the job, no point spending big money when you have a perfectly good rod available at a great price. Take a look at Mahle pistons, i prefer them to wiseco, at that power you could use the lower expansion material version, rather than the outright high power 2618 high expansion material, the low expansion material will be a quieter piston option.

Dont use an 11mm pump, it's overkill for this engine, all it will do is heat the oil up as more gets bypassed back to the sump via the Pressure regulator. A good condition 10mm pump is what you want, make sure you polish the pressure relief valve.

Hey thanx again for your input. I actually bought a 95L last week for $300 and it runs pretty good.. too bad its getting stripped. But about the oil pump and the oil heating up, I have a spec-c oil cooler, so won't that remedy that problem? From what I've been told is that the 11mm is the way to go, and that the 12mm was over kill.
Also, I'm looking for a vf36 to replace my vf29. I'm hoping that will get me to 400 with the built bottom end.
As of now, I'm still stripping the 95 down, getting ready for paint, and I needed more than just my Ver6 ej207, so I should have a Ver6 STi RA WRC Limited at my house in about 3 weeks. I couldn't find certain parts, so I decided to just buy the whole car..-minus the rear sheet metal of course. Such a shame to cut that car! But yeah...So that's when the fun starts.

Last edited by WelDun1; 03-25-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:11 PM   #89
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More GRB info added.

Sorry, V6 is not in my scope. Those are older engines and more likely to have problems.
If I was to put the time and effort into researching that and would publish a comprehensive article about it, the engine dismantlers and vendors would read this, conclude that it is easy to swap these in now and raise the price for these.
This in turn, would cause others to not buy V6 anymore and this would make the research useless.
Research is never useless bro, and by posting info on an engine, isn't going to make anyone raise the price, and it sure in the hell isn't going to make people not want it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #90
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Research is never useless bro, and by posting info on an engine, isn't going to make anyone raise the price, and it sure in the hell isn't going to make people not want it.
Why did you not want a V9? Price.
Why is the price of a V8 almost as high as a 10 year old Porsche engine ? Because info is there for people to swap it, the more people are buying it, the more price goes up, supply and demand.

Info about V6 and older should be on the GC section as well, but I'm not against you researching this and starting your own thread about your findings.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:35 PM   #91
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Why did you not want a V9? Price.
Why is the price of a V8 almost as high as a 10 year old Porsche engine ? Because info is there for people to swap it, the more people are buying it, the more price goes up, supply and demand.

Info about V6 and older should be on the GC section as well, but I'm not against you researching this and starting your own thread about your findings.
Has nothing to do with price bro..Lmao
I highly doubt that the info you provide has any effect whatsoever on the supply & demand in the auto industry. That's the boldest statement I've heard in a while. You aren't a public figure.
And FYI, not everyone wants a ver7/8/9.
I want to keep my ver6 ej207 in my STi RA WRC Limited!
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:08 PM   #92
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You know what? your understanding of what I write leaves a lot to be desired.
You want info and feel research is useful..
So go do it, I won't do it for you, whether you like my reasons, or not.

And this is a thread about the V7+ EJ207 and since you don't like this, start your own thread and stop trying to derail this thread and to flame me.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:25 PM   #93
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Each one of you have valid points and opinions but let's not bash eachother and get upset.

Vlad has done tons of research and helps even more.

Weldun, if you want more info on the V6's 'try' and find some and post it in your own thread so that people that are interested in V6 stuff can contribute to your thread and so forth. That way it's in one location and can easily be found.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:10 PM   #94
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B]Swapping the GRB EJ207[/b]

Swapping into a GDB Body

The GRB needs its ECU to work properly. This time, the discrepancy in range between AVCS and other parameters is larger.
The GRB both in US and JDM can only be CANBUS.
CANBUS is vaguely similar to Ethernet.
So your GBD ECU does not have the "network switch" installed, hardware is missing. It could not control a GRB engine.

Caution: the following is theory only, nobody has tried this yet.

You could use your GDB heads and manifold, with all associated sensors. You would in this case use the GRB EJ207 headgaskets and bolts.
You would have to look into two sensors that reside on the GRB block: The knock sensor, water temp sensor and the Crank position sensor.
The knock sensor may be of a Canbus variety and in place you need to run the "regular" GDB sensor, but I believe it may stay the same, since nobody changes it for the 32bit conversion.

[/quote]

Vlad again your work here is extremely impressive and helpful so thank you

I just wanted to point out a few things in relation to the above

The inlet ports do not line up perfectly with any non jdm inlet manifold - the dowel placement is different.

The exception to this is the 2003-2006 audm 2.0 GT liberty(legacy) which is the basically a jdm ej20y anyway. This has the plastic manifold and has no tgv's from factory. I was able to line mine up correctly.

Now I'm not saying they won't physically fit - they will. However the inlet port diameter is so much larger on these that they are a mismatch for most other inlet manifold runners / plenum.

The second thing is in your "hypothetical" swap into a gdb situation above, I would recommend people actually use the designated headgasket from the heads they are using

So in your above scenario people should use the gdb ej207 headgaskets

The difference is in the water jackets on the heads

Will add more info soon as well

Mick
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:32 AM   #95
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So with the headgaskets from the GDB, on the GRB block, how do they look like at the cylinder seating area, do the GRB gaskets have more sealing there?

Is your engine running at this point?
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:48 AM   #96
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The bores are the same size of course - the coolant passages mainly pertain to the head not the block, as the block will still allow the coolant flowing down from the head through - whether its through a V7/8/9 style 207 block or later style v10 grb 207 block (like mine with the thicker castings).

The thicker castings don't affect coolant passages at all. If you look at my pic that you posted (and also in my other engine identification thread I started a couple of months ago) you can do a comparison between my block and an earlier style semi closed 207 block (say V7-9) and see the water passages are not materially different. It's the head where they differ.

Here are two pics of the two gaskets:

Earlier style v7-v9 ej207:

http://imageshack.us/photo/photo/827/imagezdjs.jpg/



Grb jdm ej207 (specific to those grb v10 ej207's with thicker cylinder castings):

http://imageshack.us/photo/photo/543/imagehyx.jpg/


The differences are very clear and these relate to the head passages not the block.

I'm fairly confident about this and thus why I suggested anyone looking to use a grb v10 jdm ej207 block with gdb 207 (V7-9) heads should use the headgaskets from whatever model the heads came from. Not the grb ones.

Mick
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:54 AM   #97
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The other info I was going to suggest is as follows:

For those who have done the v10 jdm grb ej207 swap into a usdm Sti, and used the usdm cam triggers etc to allow use of the usdm 32 bit ecu and canbus - you are limiting the engine somewhat. The grb usdm ej257 (and infact all ej257 quad avcs motors to my understanding) came out with up to 30 degrees intake avcs advance and 25 degrees exh advance

The grb ej207 quad avcs comes with 45 degree inlet and 30 degree exhaust. That is a substantial difference in camshaft timing potential and thus limiting in nature.

My ej20y quad avcs 2004 audm liberty (legacy) GT came with 40 degree potential intake and 25 degree exh advance. Even this is more than the quad avcs 257

Mick
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:31 PM   #98
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Do you know if that's ECU limited or hardware? I'm only asking because "they" said the same thing about the intake-only AVCS system and come to find out, the AVCS cam gears were actually the same between the EJ207s and EJ257/EJ255.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:32 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by K2e2vin View Post
Do you know if that's ECU limited or hardware? I'm only asking because "they" said the same thing about the intake-only AVCS system and come to find out, the AVCS cam gears were actually the same between the EJ207s and EJ257/EJ255.

Mechanically limited by the gears themselves
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:03 AM   #100
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Mick, about the headgasket:

Under my opinion, it has high pressure sealing areas (visible as dark colored zones) and standard sealing areas (inbetween).

Under my opinion, the logic is that the highest level of sealing is provided for cylinders (ringed in black) and to the oil passages (ame thing)
The water jacket is only sealed together, surrounded by a general seal and with shaped passages.

So although, we don't have headgasket blowing problems with these engines, I think that a hybrid engine builder would be faced with two choices:
1. Use the block matching gaskets and gain full sealing area support by the cylinders (and I am not talking about the bore, which is the same, but about the seating depth, which I believe is extra from GRB to GDB EJ207, by maybe 4mm?) and maybe have to open up a coolant passage or two.
This could probably be safely done, as it's in the low pressure area.

2. Use the head matching gaskets and then get less depth of the cylinder sealing high pressure area (which is probably a layered, high tech sealant).
You will still not blow the headgasket, but maybe not take 100% advantage of the features you have? What do you think?


As far as the AVCS, I was fully expecting the info that you came up with and I will actually add everything to the proper part of the FAQ.
The facts are here, people are still trying to find work-arounds.

In this case, I thought that a GRB owner-swapper that gets the EJ207 GRB, with no ECU, hopefully from a Spec C, or with the proper identifiers, as we have established, then goes to implement this.
I think that there still are obstacles that we did not discuss in enough detail yet:
-What to do with the factory USDM immobilizer?
-Any Canbus related problems
-Idrive

SO while the reduced AVCS is something negative, maybe for now it weighs more than the inabillity to ever get spare keys, by example, if he/she implements the JDM ECU successfully.
With Canbus, can you still do the GDB trick of taping the key under the dash and then have a dumb ignition key, BTW?
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