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Old 03-11-2013, 01:22 AM   #1
teefivetee
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Default Temp needle issue?

Hey guys. I'll keep this short

Was driving on thr highway today. Nothing crazy. Temp needle went from Where it usually sits, below the dot, to halfway. Stayed there for about 2 min. Never went above that. Then went back down to normal.


Checked the overflow. Was a bit over the max. After I got to my destination and then drove back home. Nothing weird with the needle happened.

Checked overflow tank again. Back to normal. Just at max

Can anyone explain? Anything to worry?

Guess this wasn't that short. Sorry


Thanks
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:00 AM   #2
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Dot??
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:27 AM   #3
teefivetee
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Like 40 percent
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:09 AM   #4
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So the needle moved to halfway on the temp gauge and then went back?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #5
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Correct sir
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #6
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There was something wrong for sure because in normal operation your temp gauge should not increase this way. Though the car did not overheat, it does sound like it was getting out of the normal operational temp. Even if it did not raise above the 3/4 mark.

Few things..

Were you driving uphill when this happened?
Have you had any issues with coolant leaks/loss?
Did you change coolant lately?
How is the coolant level in the Expansion tank (overflow)?


This could be something as small as some air in the coolant system, low coolant, or could be the start of a Head Gasket issue where air is being introduced and caused the coolant to expand over (Air replacing coolant), thus causing the temp to jump up a bit.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
teefivetee
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No uphill driving

Was in boost in 6th gear a little bit. Had leaks but that was thousands of miles ago and I haven't lost any and all my levels seem normal

It only seems to do this when I'm in 6th and boosting

Itll go up. Sit there for a bit. Then go back down.

Confused
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:44 PM   #8
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Does it happen all the time while in boost for a period of time?

You may want to take a stab at burping the system. It could be possible you have a bubble or two stuck in the system. It is an easy way to rule things out as well; especially if you had a leak a while back as well.

Or it is possible that there is some lift happening at the heads while in boost and causing air to enter the system.

Your temp should be staying around the same position once you are warmed up.

I'd burp the coolant system first and see if you can reproduce it. Hopefully you have a pocket of air and that resolves everything.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:17 PM   #9
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If he had air in the system he wouldn't only be slightly hotter in 6th and boost.

Don't boost in 6th gear, it's your cruising gear. Problem solved.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #10
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LOl Well regardless he should be able to boost in 6th without any temp issues!

Obviously these are speculations but trapped air can/will cause intermittent heat ups. Additionally maybe he is only noticing this in 6th gear while under boost but could certainly be happening between then as well.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #11
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It'd def only in 6th gear and boost. I'm pretty anal about noticing stuff with my subie, and it's def never got hotter in any other gear

I suppose I just won't boost in this gear. Whenever I boost in any other gear this never happens.

Thanks for the input guys
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #12
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Teefivetee, The coolant should not spike up while in boost in 6th. Either you have a faulty sensor or you have other issues to look into (Air/HG/so on).
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:51 PM   #13
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I feel if I had a hg issue I'd have way more problems....
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:44 PM   #14
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I feel like unless you have a way to truly monitor coolant temp during the "issue" you have no way of telling if it is an issue. I wouldn't be concerned if it only happened during the times you described, as it truly doesn't make the car overheat. Keep in mind the stock gauge is essentially a dumby gauge anyways and not a true way to record coolant temp.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefivetee View Post
I feel if I had a hg issue I'd have way more problems....
I understand the thought process there. I am not saying it is a HG issue but I can tell you that I've had similar issues as to which you are explaining; those issues started off small and very randomly. Fact a lot of folks around the here can chime in about their issues and I'm pretty sure 90+ % will say their issues started small and intermittently.

Like your example, my temp would spike up a bit and in boost while going up hill or driving on an incline for a few minutes. There is a pretty nice hill on the freeway that takes about 3 mins to get to the top of. I'd say 2 out of 10 times my temp would spike to the middle, above where it usually is, and would lower when coming down the hill (keep in mind this is at fwy speeds).

This was two and a half years ago! I thought something was wrong but I could never find anything... it was randomly happening (like I said 2 out of 10 times when driving in that location). I noticed it happening on other steep inclines, such as mountain roads and so on, Anything that was a good up hill drive. I'd go months (3 or more) without any issues.


Then came other small issues from time to time.. Example: taking a trip on the freeway for hours then pulling off the freeway to get some grub and meanwhile I'd see a spike in temp while in the drive through or randomly idling at a light... I'd start to drive and the temp would slowly drop back to normal.

Then I started to notice coolant pushing into the overflow, never overflowing but getting higher and higher. Sometime I think this was the issue to the random heat ups but im sure it was doing this when in normal temp (or when not looking under the hood after every drive). Bubbles in the expansion tank as well, regardless of coolant rising and even present with normal temps (not getting hot).

So after over two and a half years of random crap, stupid increases of temp randomly, and having checked all the basics.. (fans, burping, radiator caps, low coolant, so on) I'm left to block testing the engine. Still those test come back negative but every time I get into the boost, boom it pukes over and if I don't watch out, it will heat up as the air displaces coolant and the system basically is filled with coolant and air.

I guess my whole point here is:

1. You shouldn't see a raise in temp while in boost and in 6th. Think of when before you had this issue and I bet you never saw a spike no matter how hot outside, how the AC was full blast blasting cool air, and how you were boosting in 6th with smile! The temp stayed rock solid right!?

I'm not trying to scare you and I'm not saying HG is the ultimate issue here but something is not right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX View Post
I feel like unless you have a way to truly monitor coolant temp during the "issue" you have no way of telling if it is an issue. I wouldn't be concerned if it only happened during the times you described, as it truly doesn't make the car overheat. Keep in mind the stock gauge is essentially a dumby gauge anyways and not a true way to record coolant temp.

When you see an increase while in a certain driving situation.. I.E Boost pulling in 6th.. The sensor is registering the heat up and the needle moves. So regardless of it being a "dummy" gauge the gauge is registering an issue (increase of temp) and returns when, in this case, he is not in boost. So I'd still say it is doing its job and registering accurate temp readings.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #16
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Sounds like the start of a headgasket issue.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:31 AM   #17
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My STi was doing the same thing. Sometimes under boost conditions (from mild to max boost) my temp needle would rise above the standard mark. For me, it turned out to be a head gasket and blow ring seals. I was pushing combustion gasses into the coolant which would gather at the top of the system which was causing the temp needle to show higher than normal temps (i.e. reading the temp of the gasses, not the coolant). If it happens again check your expansion tank. If the coolant level is way above normal then most likely you have a similar problem with gasses getting into the coolant.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 AM   #18
teefivetee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamma1232 View Post
My STi was doing the same thing. Sometimes under boost conditions (from mild to max boost) my temp needle would rise above the standard mark. For me, it turned out to be a head gasket and blow ring seals. I was pushing combustion gasses into the coolant which would gather at the top of the system which was causing the temp needle to show higher than normal temps (i.e. reading the temp of the gasses, not the coolant). If it happens again check your expansion tank. If the coolant level is way above normal then most likely you have a similar problem with gasses getting into the coolant.
I've done those tests and where you test for the gases and they always came back negative. Confuseddddd

My expansion tank never had anything crazy that couldn't be explained ad just simple thermal expansion of the coolant. Never to the brim or even close to that.

I also thought when you had a blown hg you coolant system doesn't vacuum the coolant back in after cool down? Which mine does
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:14 PM   #19
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It depends on the severity of the leak. For me, it started out only pushing gasses in under high boost and high engine loads. Day to day driving around town I never had issues. My coolant system would vacuum the coolant back in if I let it sit overnight after a problem occurred. As it went along it started happening more frequently and finally had a compression test, wherein I found out about the ring seals (60 PSI in #4 = no bueno). Get a compression test. If you do have HG issues solve them ASAP before you cause any further damage, new motors are not cheap.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefivetee View Post
I've done those tests and where you test for the gases and they always came back negative. Confuseddddd

My expansion tank never had anything crazy that couldn't be explained ad just simple thermal expansion of the coolant. Never to the brim or even close to that.

I also thought when you had a blown hg you coolant system doesn't vacuum the coolant back in after cool down? Which mine does
I must have done about 20 block tests on my STI and all were negative. I've not done a leak down test however but I am planning on doing that as well.

Far as coolant, mine was a crap shoot. One min high and the next it was not high. Bubbles were the seal of the deal for me.... I can burp the system until im blue but the min I go for a nice drive I'll see the bubbles.... no bueno..


Quote:
Originally Posted by gamma1232 View Post
It depends on the severity of the leak. For me, it started out only pushing gasses in under high boost and high engine loads. Day to day driving around town I never had issues. My coolant system would vacuum the coolant back in if I let it sit overnight after a problem occurred. As it went along it started happening more frequently and finally had a compression test, wherein I found out about the ring seals (60 PSI in #4 = no bueno). Get a compression test. If you do have HG issues solve them ASAP before you cause any further damage, new motors are not cheap.
I agree 100%. The issue starts out being very random but it gets worse as it goes and becomes more frequent.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:09 PM   #21
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Head gasket issues are a common problem on subarus, from oil leaking to overheating. I do about 3 per month. I even have an engine stand just for subaru engines.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:29 PM   #22
teefivetee
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Compression test done all at 142.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #23
KOSTI_510
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Well the compression numbers sound good and probably rule out any issues with the short block (rings so forth). However it probably would not capture the HG issue and especially if it is a small leak that might be happening currently when in boost. However those numbers seem good for the compression so that is positive.

Hard to tell with these things though. :/

Are you getting bubbles in the coolant expansion tank after normal or even sprinted driving?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOSTI_510 View Post
Well the compression numbers sound good and probably rule out any issues with the short block (rings so forth). However it probably would not capture the HG issue and especially if it is a small leak that might be happening currently when in boost. However those numbers seem good for the compression so that is positive.

Hard to tell with these things though. :/

Are you getting bubbles in the coolant expansion tank after normal or even sprinted driving?
Nope no bubbles. So confusing
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:55 AM   #25
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Car still heats up to half way. Then goes back down. Sometimes while driving in 6th for a bit. And sometimes right after I pull off the highway. Always goes right back down and never above halfway.

After doing the hydrocarbon test and compression and both coming back good I'm completely stumped
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