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Old 09-01-2011, 10:15 AM   #51
Subian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostmasterflex View Post
I am using grimspeed 3port bcs, opensource tuned w Tial 38mm wastegate
I wonder how much the ewg helps with your setup to hold boost.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:06 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subian View Post
I wonder how much the ewg helps with your setup to hold boost.
Sorry no one replied. He's not running an EWG, he's running a hybrid boost control setup.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=25090050

I'm running one as a direct result of reading the thread we are one. It approaches the stability and sped of an EWG but can be done for 20 bucks (assuming you already have a 3-pport ECBS).

EWG is better, but you only see gains on bigger turbos and higher compared to the hybrid setup. If you're running 19 psi or less, I say EWG is not worth it. Above 20 and it might be a worthy investment.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:52 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonDrums

Sorry no one replied. He's not running an EWG, he's running a hybrid boost control setup.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=25090050

I'm running one as a direct result of reading the thread we are one. It approaches the stability and sped of an EWG but can be done for 20 bucks (assuming you already have a 3-pport ECBS).

EWG is better, but you only see gains on bigger turbos and higher compared to the hybrid setup. If you're running 19 psi or less, I say EWG is not worth it. Above 20 and it might be a worthy investment.
This is not true at all. ewg are arguably more beneficial on smaller turbos than larger ones. Your post makes no sense
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex

This is not true at all. ewg are arguably more beneficial on smaller turbos than larger ones. Your post makes no sense
Not another one of these debates.

Ewg is good for higher boost setups period IMO. We perhaps can agree the size of the turbo is less relevant and I do understand the logic of trying to keep the wg shut for spoolup which on a smaller turbine housing is harder to do with exhaust back pressure pushing the wg flap open.

However, on bigger turbos, the issue is 2 fold. Higher flow results in more exhaust output which results in higher forces on the wg flap. Yet the wg isnt large enough to bypass enough exhaust to slow output resulting in boost creep up top as well.

I still am of the camp that ewg is better for larger turbos in general in terms of cost/benefit but that's because bigger turbos are used with higher boost in general. There is the argument that ewg also helps to keep exhaust speeds up but that matters less about turbo performance and more about throttle response.

Just my opinion which is shared by many as is yours. This isn't the place to debate that really. The point is this guy here got some great results using hybrid boost control on a low boost pressure that I seriously doubt could be improved with an ewg setup whatsoever.

My .02

Last edited by BrandonDrums; 04-25-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #55
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Update, I installed my 18g-xt a couple weeks ago. I'm about done tuning. I'm still slowly turning up my boost as I dial in everything but the butt-dyno results are great so far.

At the moment, I'm maxing just under 17 psi and it holds it almost to 7 grand. The spool is exactly the same as my old 16g, I'm hitting max boost at 3600 rpmish. I don't have AVCS so my spool will be a little slower than the OP.

I'd love to see a fuel and timing plot from abehanna's tune...
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:52 PM   #56
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subscribed, I just found my turbo.

Yes, different mods, different cars but for idea purposes charts are useful.

18G-XT vs 20G-XT / 20G-XTR / Dom 1.5-XTR
Not convinced about the XTRs, from everything I have seen, Rs underperformed the XTs. *Purple is the one I chose, matches the Dom at high rpm and well low end torque goes without saying.

Purple 18G-XT @18PSI
Blue 20G-XT @18PSI
Red 20G-XTR @18PSI
Green Dom 1.5-XTR @18PSI



18G-XT vs 18G-XTR

Red 18G-XT @18psi
Blue 18G-XTR @19psi, headers may hurt spool but 44 EWG and the additional psi should help compensate, but obviously they don't



Last edited by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN; 06-22-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:14 PM   #57
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I just wonder if a 18G-XT 10cm turbine housing would hurt spool.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
I just wonder if a 18G-XT 10cm turbine housing would hurt spool.
Of course it will:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1981344

That's a bigger turbo, but the 8cm vs. 10cm is not going to change much for any turbo. The trade-off will be similar in % changes.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:48 PM   #59
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^uhhh?
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:22 PM   #60
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He Basically said look at the comparo in the link and the differences between 8 and 10 will be roughly the same even across different turbos.

It's the same as its been since the beginning of time, smaller housing = quicker spool less topend biiger housing has slower spool and more topend.

IMO 10cm is the only thing that should ever be put on a 2.5L
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:35 AM   #61
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That comparo chart from Ed shows the 10cm ~200 RPM behind the 8cm at any given torque during the spool up area.

Expect a little less from a smaller turbo, maybe 150 50 RPM difference on the 18G-XT (10cm being slower than the 8cm)

Expect more top end though. Something on the order of +15HP 5 or so from the reduced backpressure at high flow on the 10cm.

Pretty classical trade-off in turbo design.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #62
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18G is a nice turbo, but you walk a fine line with surge on the low end when trying to pile boost on early. The low end is not much different from a small TD04 in terms of when it can produce boost. If you ask for 21psi at 2500rpm, it will try its darndest to do so surging away. 14-16psi is much more doable down low. You can just tell it to make all the boost it can within 14psi and it will do so near 2k. It can be tuned aggressive and run aggressive up to 14psi. 14psi to 21psi, you need to go gradual though up to 3k to keep from surging.

Your dyno is generous to you. Then again 60F and 100ft from sea level is helpful. A real conservative dyno will show around 300 ft-lbs at 21psi on a 2.5L engine. For example, I don't put down that torque at 24psi on the same turbo on any of my three local dyno shops. Then again a stock STI is around 220hp and a stock WRX around 160hp. I'm not jundging in any ways, but it's important to not really look at the absolute numbers but rather the curve. Absolute numbers can be anything.

The curve looks decent, although I do expect more peak hp. At 16psi, I wouldn't expect that roll-off. If the boost is steady but the torque curve rolls off, it's a good indicator that there's an air flow restriction somewhere. For the raw numbers, I would think you'd see a peak hp number near 370-380. It's just your dyno's scale and is basically what I think of as crank tq/hp numbers, so that's what I'd expect to see. I'd immediately suggest intake, but you already changed that. Stock is restrictive enough to cause problems at this power level. I would point to exhaust but again you are already running 3". There'd be a limit with injectors, but your tuner was still throwing air at it, so that's also not the case. I don't know if the stock STI intercooler is restrictive above 300chp. Many people also do TGV deletes to aid flow, although I don't know what kind of restrictions are there. The header and uppipe also play their roll and can net you a reasonable bump in peak hp. Really you're just looking through the air flow system both in and out of the engine. The easier it breaths, the more actual air passes through. What I mean by actual air is that you can make the turbo produce whatever boost you want. You can ask for 21psi. It doesn't mean that the engine will actually let more air through the engine. There is still only so much going through based on total resistance. You're not really at high enough of a power level to think about cams yet, nor intake manifold, or porting, although they don't necessarily hurt. It's just a cost vs gain thing for a given flow level. If you had a GT35R on the car, you'd be looking at these things just because of how much air that thing can move. An 18G is a good sized turbo but still slightly small and doesn't demand everything under the sun.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:11 PM   #63
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It actually hit 17.8psi peak with 11:1 AFR if you reference the dyno sheet.
Assuming no error with the dyno's boost input.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:53 PM   #64
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Would you say the 18G-XT requires upgraded intercooler and bigger injectors? Those are the only 2 things I havent done and Im about done with build and ready for a dyno tune. Would it be worth the wait for me is the question...I might be able to wait a few more dys for them to come I guess but I really want to drive my wip...its been like 7wks. I got a lot of other mods I probably didnt need like brand new oem motor, je pistons, arp studs, killerbee oil pan, invidia catted dp, borla cbe, perrin turbo inlet, cobb ap, cobb sf intake+box, samco hoses, T-clamps, grimspeed 3way bcs, gates kevlar timing belt, walbro 255 pump and few other things. What size injectors ? 850-1000cc i assume
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:21 PM   #65
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At least 650 or 750 injectors for a sub 20psi tune, you'd need larger for more boost.

Would you be in the market for a lightly used 18G-xt and a set of 850cc DW injectors? I might be selling mine....and everything else on the car.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:37 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by RallySoob View Post
Would you say the 18G-XT requires upgraded intercooler and bigger injectors? Those are the only 2 things I havent done and Im about done with build and ready for a dyno tune. Would it be worth the wait for me is the question...I might be able to wait a few more dys for them to come I guess but I really want to drive my wip...its been like 7wks. I got a lot of other mods I probably didnt need like brand new oem motor, je pistons, arp studs, killerbee oil pan, invidia catted dp, borla cbe, perrin turbo inlet, cobb ap, cobb sf intake+box, samco hoses, T-clamps, grimspeed 3way bcs, gates kevlar timing belt, walbro 255 pump and few other things. What size injectors ? 850-1000cc i assume
550 will get you about 80% of the turbo capacity.
650 is all you need, but there aren't good 650's.
ID725's will max the 18g out with room to spare.
I would recommend an STi TMIC over any other intercooler on the market.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:04 PM   #67
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I would recommend an STi TMIC over any other intercooler on the market.
So that's why you gave me such a good trade on my STi intercooler when you sold me the ETS.

( I assume you're talking for an 18g, for which I'd agree.)
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:13 PM   #68
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Aftermarkets intercoolers are 22lb chunks of Aluminum with welded end tanks. No engineering behind them.

I have owned TSX, HELIX, Sparco, and now a '08+ STi TMIC with the X indentation from the Spec C intercooler, huge surface area, thin, efficient, high quality manufacturing and only 12lb.

But yes, people will continue to justify their $1000 paper weights.

20G proudly equipped with +08 STI TMIC, best TMIC in the market.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:17 PM   #69
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So that's why you gave me such a good trade on my STi intercooler when you sold me the ETS.

( I assume you're talking for an 18g, for which I'd agree.)
Yes for the 18G
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:18 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
Aftermarkets intercoolers are 22lb chunks of Aluminum with welded end tanks. No engineering behind them.

I have owned TSX, HELIX, Sparco, and now a '08+ STi TMIC with the X indentation from the Spec C intercooler, huge surface area, thin, efficient, high quality manufacturing and only 12lb.

But yes, people will continue to justify their $1000 paper weights.

20G proudly equipped with +08 STI TMIC, best TMIC in the market.

for the most part I agree with you. However, the Process West and ETS are both very nice pieces.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:19 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
20G proudly equipped with +08 STI TMIC, best TMIC in the market.
Any power figures on that turbo? Haven't seen any -- just curious.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:34 PM   #72
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #73
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You know, I drop in on this thread from time-to-time, but as far as actual figures from running motors there's not much to see, imo.

So that's why I was wondering about yours, which is clearly running (I hope? )
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #74
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My spearco outlet temps are 5-10* above ambient on A gtx35. Haven't done any extended time high boost yet though
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:07 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
550 will get you about 80% of the turbo capacity.
650 is all you need, but there aren't good 650's.
ID725's will max the 18g out with room to spare.
I would recommend an STi TMIC over any other intercooler on the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
for the most part I agree with you. However, the Process West and ETS are both very nice pieces.
I'm confused by these 2 statements: is the STi offering just as nice/nicer than Spearco/ETS/Process West? And are all STi years the same in terms of quality?

EDIT for more directed responses.

Last edited by Zee Biker; 03-17-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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