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Old 03-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #1201
Scooby South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmons-Racing View Post
Why don't you put the Z2's on for tomorrow morning?


Simmons
done and a quick front Sway bar adjustment


Bill
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:56 PM   #1202
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mmmmm, word diarrhea. Can you not use the enter key?
You're really worried about paragraphs?
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:34 PM   #1203
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Thanks for the updates Bill. Sorry you didn't finish quite as high as you may have hoped, but it seems like a pretty good showing for your car's first national event and all the new parts.

How did you feel about your car's power/torque? I talked to Jadrice Toussaint earlier tonight and he was pretty frustrated with his FR-S's power in CS today. He has a Strano 22mm front bar and MCS shocks and loved the handling, but just doesn't think the car has the power/torque/gearing to do well in CS. Given that, I was just curious how you felt about your car's new tune on course.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:40 AM   #1204
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You're really worried about paragraphs?
Trying to police the internet forums is a worthless endeavor, but hey, at least use your high school education when you write.......if you have one.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:28 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by jprice130 View Post
Thanks for the updates Bill. Sorry you didn't finish quite as high as you may have hoped, but it seems like a pretty good showing for your car's first national event and all the new parts.

How did you feel about your car's power/torque? I talked to Jadrice Toussaint earlier tonight and he was pretty frustrated with his FR-S's power in CS today. He has a Strano 22mm front bar and MCS shocks and loved the handling, but just doesn't think the car has the power/torque/gearing to do well in CS. Given that, I was just curious how you felt about your car's new tune on course.
I had talked with Jadrice as well.. we discussed some things that could help the car..He was pretty frustrated with the redline in particular and the 'soft limiter' That seems to be the biggest issue. As for my car Night and day difference in being mediocre or a strong competitor in STX. the 8k redline made it go from what Jadrice's issue is (59.8 mph) 2nd gear to a 64.3 MPH contender, that and the Dip is gone. that in itself is a HUGE burdon lifted. We are tweeking some things on the suspension to help my car be a bit better tomorrow. Basically the rear end was skating around.. and never would 'SET' so we did some drastic changes to the rear suspension to settle it down.

1) Disconnected the Rear Bar altogether
2) took all the compression out of the Rear Shocks
3) took all the Rebound out except for 2 Clicks in the rear

With those steps along with one other change we are going to do in the morning then the car should be Faster and give more confidence. There certainly a difference from making the car 'Feel' right vs. going faster. so its kinda a learning experience even tho we knew the car loose. Knowing what to do to tighten it up is part of teh battle for sure.

Bill
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:59 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by jprice130 View Post
Thanks for the updates Bill. Sorry you didn't finish quite as high as you may have hoped, but it seems like a pretty good showing for your car's first national event and all the new parts.

How did you feel about your car's power/torque? I talked to Jadrice Toussaint earlier tonight and he was pretty frustrated with his FR-S's power in CS today. He has a Strano 22mm front bar and MCS shocks and loved the handling, but just doesn't think the car has the power/torque/gearing to do well in CS. Given that, I was just curious how you felt about your car's new tune on course.
I had txt messaged Jadrice a few times since I'm running the same exact suspension setup and had some trouble getting it dialed in last weekend. Seems like he got the shocks where he wants them, which according to the shock dynos isn't too far off from the stock shocks. A little bit more rebound than stock front and rear and just a little more compression in the front.

I think the word he used for the car was "gutless" . It just didn't sound like a good course for the car with the soft rev limiter and the torque dip. Good thing you can change all of that with STX.

Those were Chris's old R1-Ss? He mentioned to me before how short the R1-S is versus the A6. The 235/40/17 A6 is .8" shorter than the 245/40/17 A6 on a 17x7 rim. Helps with gearing overall but lowers the redline even further. Edit: Would be about 2mph lower.

Good luck day 2, hope you guys make it into the top 16.

Last edited by dwx; 03-17-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #1207
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Looks like they finished running the LCQ, Mike King ended up in 29th overall. There is always the random draw!

Jadrice did make it in for CS, he was 6th in the LCQ.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:06 PM   #1208
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I had txt messaged Jadrice a few times since I'm running the same exact suspension setup and had some trouble getting it dialed in last weekend. Seems like he got the shocks where he wants them, which according to the shock dynos isn't too far off from the stock shocks. A little bit more rebound than stock front and rear and just a little more compression in the front.

I think the word he used for the car was "gutless" . It just didn't sound like a good course for the car with the soft rev limiter and the torque dip. Good thing you can change all of that with STX.

Those were Chris's old R1-Ss? He mentioned to me before how short the R1-S is versus the A6. The 235/40/17 A6 is .8" shorter than the 245/40/17 A6 on a 17x7 rim. Helps with gearing overall but lowers the redline even further. Edit: Would be about 2mph lower.

Good luck day 2, hope you guys make it into the top 16.
Oh yeah, I forgot that you were getting the same shocks. It's too bad you couldn't have run this weekend. It would've been awesome to hear feedback from your perspective; especially since you run 245/40 A6s right?

The 235/40 R1-S's that Jadrice ran this weekend were the exact same tires I bought from Chris Fenter. Jadrice has freely offered me lots of help and advice so letting him borrow my wheels and tires is the least I can do. I had hoped to join him this weekend, but couldn't work it out.

Anyway, the 235/40 R1-S's when mounted on a 17x7 wheel are just as wide as a 245/40 A6. The big difference as you pointed out is the overall diameter. The R1-S's have a smaller diameter, so Jadrice was hoping that would help give the car a little more punch coming out of the corners. The obvious trade off is a lower redline top speed and that apparently was a bit problematic this weekend. In addition, the lower diameter tires still didn't provide the punch he feels the car needs. That said, he loved the shocks and the R1-S tires and he said he did not have a problem with grip whatsoever.

Sorry for the slight thread-jack Bill and sorry you guys didn't pull it out during the LCQ. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say "thank you" for all the great feedback you are providing in your build thread.
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:59 PM   #1209
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Yeah I have had trouble getting out and running the car so my A6s only have a few runs on them. I would have lent them to Jadrice to run at Dixie but I didn't really think of it since he said he was going to run the Rivals.

I'm sure we'll get some good feedback from both Bill and George when they get a chance.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #1210
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Collectively.....? ;-)
Thanks for the codrive, Bill. Good luck with the set up. Hopefully with the tools Mike and I gave you, you can push this thing to another level. :-)
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:22 PM   #1211
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Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
You think a car on off the shelf KW's and on non scrubbed in tires tested on a practice course is as fast as the BRZ/FRS is going to go?

Cmon now, it's too soon to make that assessment. And there are a lot of people that get disenfranchised if it's wrong.
Not to mention there is no header and there's still a lot of fabrication tweaks that can be done to lower weight. Let's see how it does at Nationals after a season of development before we all make the call one way or another.

<-- Sick of all of the bench racing from both camps
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:39 PM   #1212
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I'm sure we'll get some good feedback from both Bill and George when they get a chance.
Well, I wish I could say the Twins ruled--but not so...

I'll have a vid up shortly of my 2nd quickest run (batt died on best while staging). My car was just put together, and the rear needs work--it will not plant & wants to come around mid/exit under power--although, thankfully, the front is nice & pointy. It doesn't inspire confidence & didn't allow me to throw the car around, to suit my driving style.

I also drove poorly & should have been in the mid 44s (45.1 best on 3rd run). The P1 RX8 ran a 44.0. I may have been able to run that mid 44 & try to catch Superman, but my CEL light kicked on while staging for 4th run--been disconnecting batt to reset multiple times--tuner needs to sort!), enabled TC & that was that...

Sunday was a joke as the cooler conditions made the car loose again & I overdrove the pi$$ outta the car & put on a drift show. My codriver was more than a second off his Sat times.

Bottom line... it's gonna take some development to get these cars to the top of the standings--but I believe they ultimately have potential to be in the mix.

***EDIT*** Here's vid--fast fwd to 1 min mark for run:


Last edited by GTB/ZR-1; 03-18-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:25 AM   #1213
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George... I think it was more the surface than anything... according to Russ Clark, the course is very temperature dependent. A 5 degree track temp difference in the track could render it loose or tight depending on your setup. Friday on the practice course (which is about 1/2 of the Real course) I really didn't have any issues.. the car was a bit loose...but not uncontrollable. We dialed most of it out with airpressure. We were on the Z2's for the morning up until about We were done with the Evo school.. then we Switched out to the RS3's.. I didn't drive on them, But Mike and Hilary did and reported that the car just felt Numb. We Elected to stay on the Hankooks for the main Race, which reflecting back, We should have put Hilary on the Dunlops for her heat as there wasn't much temperature in the AM (started off at about 47 Degrees) And she skated all over the place for here first 3 Runs... *Sorry Hil* She finally got a decent run in...netting her a 4th place finish...just out of the trophy's..

Mike and I ran in the last heat..which further enhanced our decision to run the RS3's as it was also into the heat of the day.. *ambient temp about 81* From the morning runs. We knew that we had to generate as much heat in the tires as possible for them to be affective. I ran first.. and ran a decent opening lap and generated about 110 degree Tire temp.. Oh for Hiliary's early run, the best *probed Temp was about 86 Degrees..thats all the heat we could get into them in the AM. the Dunlops perform MUCH better in a cooler environment, they were more confidence inspiring to me and my car setup.

First off, Thanks to Mike and Hilary for trying to get the car Setup for both of your driving styles. Mike is a left foot braker, using the brake to set the car for various situations, Slalom, offsets etc. so he kinda drags the brakes to help drive the car, other wise known as the 'pedal dance' With that, Mike experieced the Brakes Going into *ICE MODE* and the brakes for him wouldn't perform the way he wanted. With that said, Him and Hilary both said the car was loose to them. So we began to Adjust the car to more Hilary's and Mike's Liking.

Mike improved his time by a couple of 10's but still was experience "ice mode" on the brakes, so he felt he wasn't getting everything out of the car. I am a Right foot braker and I never experienced the brake issue that Mike had. Supposedly its a characteristic of the EBD system. and it can can be Defeated by using something similar to Gaming Cheat codes.
*pull the handbrake up 3 times
*push the brake pedel 3 times
Etc...Never got it to work but it might require more digging to see if this is an actual issue or not.

If the car would have been under us like it was in practice. we might have faired better in the standings. For Day 2, since contingency was out the window, we opted to put the Dunlops on for the day for a couple of reasons.
- would be better temp suited for Hilary's early runs, which it did as she improved her Scratch time by 4/10's. which would have put her into the challenge on the first day and she would have trophy'd in 3rd. With all the changes to the car and her vast improvement in time. Mike and I were excited to see if we could duplicate her almost 1/2 sec improvement.

With a new setup on the rear of the car to help with its loose condition, I had the first shot of improvement for the day in open STX. 3 of my competitors had already made the challenge.. so I went out to get that .5 bit of time to try to become part of the elite. Well that didn't work out like I thought it would. Went out really aggressive and in Spectacular fashion for everyone to see.. SPUN HARD coming into first 3rd of the course. I had unweighted the car going into the offset get right before the big long sweeper section. Full throttle, 60mph Full smokey 360 Hard spin.. the good news is the car is ok.. the bad news...I lost all confidence in the car at that point, Mike went out.. and was still having brake issues for his style of driving... at that point we didn't know what to do to fix that issue that and the car was not confidence inspiring. My last run I went thru motions as I was just mentally done for the day.

Mike's last run, He was on fire.. dancing flawlessly thru the cones.. He finally looked like he found the grove in the car. Car looked settled. It stepped out like it was 'supposed' to.. I was excited.. Mike was going to lite it up this run, I thought. Then Dennis Sparks Spun at the Finish and people ran to get the finish set back up...to late....RED FLAG for Mike. Mike came back in a little more excited/angry than I remember ever seeing him before. He said he nailed everything just about as perfect as he could...the turnaround, the brake issue for him...all came together on this particular run. and NO CONES...that was the important part...

Well Mike ended up getting a rerun... and with his heightened level of anxiety and the adrenaline rush/disappointment of the run he had just got off. I tried to get him refocused on what he had to do.. But Mike went out and looked good...but then had the brake issue again on the bottom and that was it...We were done..

Great Debut for George and my cars...a combination of Setup, Surface and driving, we still managed a respectable finish in one of the tightest classes out there. Sure the Twins need a bit more development, but at least they are competitive ...and I couldn't ask for more than that..

I learned a few things, as well:
- Apparently I'm not ready for uber driver setup quite yet and will continue to work on my driving and setup to try and be competitive within the ranks.

Next thing I learned is to have a strategy. Dunlops vs. Hankook... Mike Preferred the Hankooks over the Dunlops.. as he felt they had more grip. Durometer test put Both tires about the same spot, hence why there wasn't much time difference except where temperature plays a part...what time of day are you running..ect...

Setup is very much a personal thing... what works for some doesn't work for others..Yes the car has to be there, but you have to allow room for driver development also..

All in all a great event... Knocked some rust off my driving and saw many friends that I haven't seen in very long while. The important part is the car nor the drivers embarrassed itself out there. It looks very Well classed at this point and there is no magic Gotcha, OMG thing the car does better than whats already out there. The important thing to me is that is has a chance....and that's all you can ask for...

The Nameless Performance Tune/Header combo Performed flawlessly as well as the Kartboy Shifter bushings, pully and other goodies. The car is there for sure, just have to learn to adjust it to make it faster, which is a relative term. At What point does one throw caution out the window just for that extra couple of 10'ths... I guess that depends on how serious you want your own build to become..

thanks for putting up with my non-paragraph, runon sentence jibber jabber.. I am actually trying to be a better writer...showing what my College education is doing for me..

If you guys have ANY questions at all LMK. Videos are still being processed, as I have other priorities at this point..

Again thanks for the support

Bill

Last edited by Scooby South; 03-25-2013 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:44 AM   #1214
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I've never had to make the setup decision for a co-driver, I'm not sure which side of the fence I'd sit on.

Glad to hear the car is ok after the spin and that you had a good time. Can't wait to see what the next few months of development bring.

Keep it up Bill!
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #1215
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Hey-- We told him we could put it back for him.. In our defense we totally would have and it was an easy thing to put back.
Bill if you really didn't want the set up that way, you should have let us change it back to the way you had it for your runs instead of posting all over the internet that you sacrificed your runs. You made a decision to run it like that, when it would have taken all of 5 mins to put back.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #1216
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It's a hard line to walk when you have co drivers that drive very different than you do. Bottom line, you always set the car up towards your driving style in the end. If it was something that could have been changed back, then you should have asked them to change it back. Apparently they would have.

Either way, nice showing for your first time out. New cars always have a learning curve, as this thread can certainly attest to.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:18 PM   #1217
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Was able to get the car on the dyno at Topspeed in Atlanta. Thanks to Doug for giving it a workout...
Engine mods:
-Kartboy Pully
-DIY intake with K&N, sound generator delete.
-Nameless 1st Gen Prototype header w/cat
-Nameless overpipe/midpipe combo...
-Stock backpipe/muffler
-Nameless Ecutek Tune
Impressed with the 1st gen header and tune...but looking forward to the revision that will give the car more umph..

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Old 03-31-2013, 03:09 AM   #1218
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #1219
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Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Was able to get the car on the dyno at Topspeed in Atlanta. Thanks to Doug for giving it a workout...
Engine mods:
-Kartboy Pully
-DIY intake with K&N, sound generator delete.
-Nameless 1st Gen Prototype header w/cat
-Nameless overpipe/midpipe combo...
-Stock backpipe/muffler
-Nameless Ecutek Tune
Impressed with the 1st gen header and tune...but looking forward to the revision that will give the car more umph..

I thought you posted that you got 190/150?

Simmons
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:07 PM   #1220
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^^^ that was Nameless's car...with the revised header...wasn't mine, sorry about that.. we both have the same mods, and the 'same' tune but thats withtheir revised header, race catback and a different dyno ...sorry for the confusion...


Bill
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:32 PM   #1221
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Just got done installing Kartboys short shifter... OMG this thing is awesome.. sooo precise... and the throws are just a small click...click...click..


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Old 04-05-2013, 10:39 PM   #1222
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The click, click is like crack!
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #1223
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on course shot.. Thanks Craig Wilcox


also got the mount ready for my Tablet so I can enjoy Solo Storm just waiting on my mounting disc for the dash with no
vision impairment..

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Old 04-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #1224
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Virtual Gauge Garden on my Tab2 using the Torque App... Love it.. ...Lots of info to tap into ... and it has a data logger mode..cheaper that real gauges... and more accurate..

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Old 04-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #1225
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Warning!

Danger to manifold!
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