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Old 03-24-2013, 04:59 AM   #1601
NZrex
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
The car needs to be smaller. It is the size of the old Legacy. This is not a family sedan competing the with the old Camry. The GC and GD cars had shorter wheelbase and the car needs to go back in that direction. The BRZ is there, we need the WRX to share the platform (shortened Impreza chassis).

We are not competitive against the fiesta in GRC due to the larger size and weight. If they move to RallyAmerica we could have a big problem.
I guess i have the luxury in being able to buy either a 3 or 4/5 door so doesnt really matter now that i think about it. Its currently a family car size. Now that its no longer a tarted up impeza, it doesnt need to be the size of a family car. Bring on the NYIAS!
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:59 AM   #1602
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Bang for your buck=EVERYTHING.

You keep pulling out individual things that beat the Subaru. That is not bang for your buck. That is...when I want to go to the track, I take my mustang. When I want to go get groceries in 2 foot of snow, I take my STI. If I want to feel good about my interior when I am driving around, I'll take my GTI. NO ONE else gives you ALL the things Subaru does in ONE package.....

Will you "settle" for 2WD? Have 2 doors so it is harder to put in a child seat? Have a "nicer" interior? Whatever.




It officially came out of a FHI execs mouth "to win in motorsports". He didn't specify WRC though and it wasn't quite 2 years ago.
Um.. Cough Golf R Cough.

Not true, THe Golf R is like a refined STI. 95% of the performance and 150% of the refinement. It is the closest thing to the perfect combination of sportiness and luxury I have found for less than 40k dollars. AWD means no compromises, and the 6spd manual is a joy to use. The interior makes you happy you spent 36 large, and all the little thoughtful touches lets you know that they have been making the Golf for a million years and they have figured out clever things that make your life easy and the drive enjoyable.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:56 PM   #1603
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Um.. Cough Golf R Cough.

Not true, THe Golf R is like a refined STI. 95% of the performance and 150% of the refinement. It is the closest thing to the perfect combination of sportiness and luxury I have found for less than 40k dollars. AWD means no compromises, and the 6spd manual is a joy to use. The interior makes you happy you spent 36 large, and all the little thoughtful touches lets you know that they have been making the Golf for a million years and they have figured out clever things that make your life easy and the drive enjoyable.
Yea I'm torn between unloading the cash now on a Golf R or waiting like I was planning to for 2015 to spend on the best thing out. My experience driving the Golf R was amazing. I really see what all the R owners have been saying about its refinement and like you said its about the "clever things that make your life easy," it really had alot of that. Overall the fit and finish, impressed me the most: Tons of soft touch material all around, rubber or felt lined cubbies/cup holders, deep horn, weighty doors that thud when closed, pedals that are well spaced.....

The list goes on for sure, and the MK7 that should be available around 2015 is expected to improve even further on that....its just a matter of whether I can wait or not.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #1604
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Originally Posted by cannedtuna View Post

Yea I'm torn between unloading the cash now on a Golf R or waiting like I was planning to for 2015 to spend on the best thing out. My experience driving the Golf R was amazing. I really see what all the R owners have been saying about its refinement and like you said its about the "clever things that make your life easy," it really had alot of that. Overall the fit and finish, impressed me the most: Tons of soft touch material all around, rubber or felt lined cubbies/cup holders, deep horn, weighty doors that thud when closed, pedals that are well spaced.....

The list goes on for sure, and the MK7 that should be available around 2015 is expected to improve even further on that....its just a matter of whether I can wait or not.
I think the mk7 and the next WRX will be direct competitors with refinements going to the vw.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:48 PM   #1605
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
I think the mk7 and the next WRX will be direct competitors with refinements going to the vw.
And dependability going to the WRX.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:00 PM   #1606
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I think the mk7 and the next WRX will be direct competitors with refinements going to the vw.
Refinements will go to the VW for sure but The MK7 Golf is expected to get a decent bump (a little more than the projected power band of the next WRX, but we'll see) in power and I think that price wise it'll be in the range of the STI.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:21 PM   #1607
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How has vdub's reliability been on these newer cars? One of my buddies just bought a new Jetta turbo and plans to mod it. He said he knew he was taking a big risk on reliability.
I gave up on vdub's a long time ago.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #1608
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Um.. Cough Golf R Cough.

Not true, THe Golf R is like a refined STI. 95% of the performance and 150% of the refinement. It is the closest thing to the perfect combination of sportiness and luxury I have found for less than 40k dollars. AWD means no compromises, and the 6spd manual is a joy to use. The interior makes you happy you spent 36 large, and all the little thoughtful touches lets you know that they have been making the Golf for a million years and they have figured out clever things that make your life easy and the drive enjoyable.

Are those official percentages? I have been perfectly happy with my interior(s) and just don't see the big deal about it. I am usually listening to my radio, so I don't ever notice any sort of rattles. I have also owned a Justy, so rattles wouldn't bother me anyway. I don't trust VWs reliability and I am very happy with my resale values. That also factors in to "bang for your buck".
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:28 PM   #1609
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Don't forget real seats in the 150%. Germans dont bs around on their interiors. My STi seats were freaking horrible. How about the audio?

Last edited by Brahmzy; 03-24-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #1610
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I have owned a 00 jetta vr6, and it was a good car until everything started taking a **** on me. I have heard that vw is getting better with their reliability.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:37 PM   #1611
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I have owned a 00 jetta vr6, and it was a good car until everything started taking a **** on me. I have heard that vw is getting better with their reliability.
Don't get me started on old school vdub reliability. Just awful. Even in the mid-2000s they were really bad.

Last edited by Brahmzy; 03-24-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:08 PM   #1612
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Um.. Cough Golf R Cough.

Not true, THe Golf R is like a refined STI. 95% of the performance and 150% of the refinement. It is the closest thing to the perfect combination of sportiness and luxury I have found for less than 40k dollars. AWD means no compromises, and the 6spd manual is a joy to use. The interior makes you happy you spent 36 large, and all the little thoughtful touches lets you know that they have been making the Golf for a million years and they have figured out clever things that make your life easy and the drive enjoyable.
Haldex is not true AWD. You are basically FWD until slip, so no it isn't on the same par as the STI or even the WRX. Enjoy torque steer and having the car flip out on a four wheel dyno.

Performance, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds is not on par with the WRX and STI at 4.7 seconds.

Golf R is STI Pricing with GTI performance. Next.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:26 PM   #1613
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Haldex is not true AWD. You are basically FWD until slip, so no it isn't on the same par as the STI or even the WRX. Enjoy torque steer and having the car flip out on a four wheel dyno.

Performance, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds is not on par with the WRX and STI at 4.7 seconds.

Golf R is STI Pricing with GTI performance. Next.
Its not that bad, I went into my test drive expecting to be underwhelmed but I wasn't. Is it on the same level as my 06 STI was when it comes to performance, nahhhh; but its good enough given its trade off.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:33 PM   #1614
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There's a bit of talk about Golf GTI/R versus WRX/STI. Surely the comparision is summarised as follows:

Golf GTI/R - excellent daily drivers. Built beautifully, top class interior and build quality. Aimed at the mature driver who values everything needed for comfortable daily driving. The sacrifice being performance and the lack of true AWD.

WRX/STi - focus is solely on performance. Here you're paying just for a powerful engine (albeit super thirsty on gas) and AWD. I won't got into handling because I would say neither the VW's or Subaru's handle better than the others.

So, you buy the Subies if you value performance above all else, or you buy the VW's if you value everyday liveability with less emphasis on performance. Simple.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:49 PM   #1615
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YOu guys crack me up. Not having true AWD is the best you can do? I was worried about that 'fake' awd until I drove the car hard. All worries left me.

Here is a heads up folks. I have owned 7 AWD subarus and a MS3 as well just for kicks. THe Golf R simply does not torque steer. Ever. Try to pass that lie to somebody else. But I have owned more subarus that most here and would LOVE another one. But the Golf R AWD package is every bit as good on the street. (have not tracked it yet, but have heard positive reviews form former STI owners)

I have nailed it from a stop (mild clutch drop with APR stage I) and the wheel is completely neutral, Just like my WRX and STI. The AWD in the Golf R in a daily driving situation and even driven very hard is Completely on par with the WRX, with the exception that it understeers MUCH LESS. FActs are a bitch huh? My 2013 Golf R with all seasons steers and responds better than my 2011 WRX did. IN braking the Golf was better, steering feel, the golf was better. Again, pass those VW myths to soembody else. I have been on both sides of the coin. The VW is not perfect, but it comes much closer to my version of perfect than the WRX or STI.

THe summary about this AWD debate, on the street you simply cannot tell the difference between the Haldex IV and subies AWD at all. I have driven nothing but Subarus for 12 years, on the street the Golf R is every bit as good, if not better in some cases.

Say it is FWD biased all you want (and you would be right). I will concede that the AWD on the Subie is mechanically superior. But with all the aids and the improvements to the Haldex IV system, I would dare any one of you to say the system is inferior if you drove it. Maybe the Haldex I-III were terrible, I have no idea.

Lack of 'true' AWD is a laughable joke. Quantify why that matters? The Haldex IV is alarmingly good.
As for performance? Well that is up for debate.

If any of you think you can hit 4.7 seconds on your WRX like it is an attainable number on a daily basis then you keep on believing that. HA HA.

Every since that mechanically brutal number has been posted WRX owners have been holding it high in defense of their understeering body rolling plow horses. The WRX is not a bad car, out of the box, but it is neither a great one. I have had two. I know. It can be made great with some parts. I have played that game numerous times on numerous Subarus. The Golf R needs absolutely nothing out of the box. Even on the All Season tires it is saddled with it is an amazing car to drive. I flashed it recently not because I thought it was slow, but because it was a crazy good deal on APR flashes local to Houston. 300ish HP for 500 dollars is just way to hard to say no to. I am done modding my R until I need new tires, and then summer tires will go on and the benefits to braking and steering will just get that much better... I can hardly wait!

JustyWRC. I do not know what to tell you. I understand completely you are happy with the interiors of your subarus. I was to, until I was asked to pay 40 grand for a car with essentially a 15k dollar interior. I will pass on that.


Cannedtuna, ignore Snow Drift he lives his life one quarter mile at a time. You have actually driven the Golf R and know it is FAR more than any GTI will ever hope to be. Drift has read a 0-60 time so he knows everything he needs to know about the whole car. I had an 06 STI as well and the Golf R is not as raw as the STI is, but you would need to be on a track to exploit that last 5% of all out insanity the STI gives you. Out of the box the STI is a better track car. I will not argue that on any day, ever. On the street the Golf R is in another league all around usable performance and comfort

If I had to summarize everything you need to know about the Golf R and any subaru on the lot. There is not a Subaru made today that offers the total package of the Golf R (reliability not accounted for mind you, LOL). If there was I would have bought the darn thing!!!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #1616
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Go take the Golf R in the mud or deep snow and then the WRX or STI and tell us fake AWD is just as good.

You live in Texas so a lot of the benefit of mechanical AWD is lost unless you go mudding.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:51 PM   #1617
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Could be true, but my fellow Golf R folks who are living with snow are not complaining.
I cannot speak to that, but I have driven in very heavy flooded roads with both and the Haldex held up well.

Like I said Snow, the older Haldex may have been very bad and sloppy, but the gen IV is really pretty darn good.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:09 PM   #1618
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So someone must be having a pretty good laugh about Car & Driver using their photoshop huh?

I'm happy. That thing was horrendous.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:21 AM   #1619
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Could be true, but my fellow Golf R folks who are living with snow are not complaining.
I cannot speak to that, but I have driven in very heavy flooded roads with both and the Haldex held up well.

Like I said Snow, the older Haldex may have been very bad and sloppy, but the gen IV is really pretty darn good.
I'm sure it works fine. I have family with an Acura MDX and SHAWD is basically Haldex4 and they don't get stuck, but it's a lot heavier and taller (and they aren't trying to get it stuck).

I actually like the Golf R and hope Subaru offers a 3door to compete directly.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:02 AM   #1620
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
YOu guys crack me up. Not having true AWD is the best you can do? I was worried about that 'fake' awd until I drove the car hard. All worries left me.

Here is a heads up folks. I have owned 7 AWD subarus and a MS3 as well just for kicks. THe Golf R simply does not torque steer. Ever. Try to pass that lie to somebody else. But I have owned more subarus that most here and would LOVE another one. But the Golf R AWD package is every bit as good on the street. (have not tracked it yet, but have heard positive reviews form former STI owners)

I have nailed it from a stop (mild clutch drop with APR stage I) and the wheel is completely neutral, Just like my WRX and STI. The AWD in the Golf R in a daily driving situation and even driven very hard is Completely on par with the WRX, with the exception that it understeers MUCH LESS. FActs are a bitch huh? My 2013 Golf R with all seasons steers and responds better than my 2011 WRX did. IN braking the Golf was better, steering feel, the golf was better. Again, pass those VW myths to soembody else. I have been on both sides of the coin. The VW is not perfect, but it comes much closer to my version of perfect than the WRX or STI.

THe summary about this AWD debate, on the street you simply cannot tell the difference between the Haldex IV and subies AWD at all. I have driven nothing but Subarus for 12 years, on the street the Golf R is every bit as good, if not better in some cases.

Say it is FWD biased all you want (and you would be right). I will concede that the AWD on the Subie is mechanically superior. But with all the aids and the improvements to the Haldex IV system, I would dare any one of you to say the system is inferior if you drove it. Maybe the Haldex I-III were terrible, I have no idea.

Lack of 'true' AWD is a laughable joke. Quantify why that matters? The Haldex IV is alarmingly good.
As for performance? Well that is up for debate.

If any of you think you can hit 4.7 seconds on your WRX like it is an attainable number on a daily basis then you keep on believing that. HA HA.

Every since that mechanically brutal number has been posted WRX owners have been holding it high in defense of their understeering body rolling plow horses. The WRX is not a bad car, out of the box, but it is neither a great one. I have had two. I know. It can be made great with some parts. I have played that game numerous times on numerous Subarus. The Golf R needs absolutely nothing out of the box. Even on the All Season tires it is saddled with it is an amazing car to drive. I flashed it recently not because I thought it was slow, but because it was a crazy good deal on APR flashes local to Houston. 300ish HP for 500 dollars is just way to hard to say no to. I am done modding my R until I need new tires, and then summer tires will go on and the benefits to braking and steering will just get that much better... I can hardly wait!

JustyWRC. I do not know what to tell you. I understand completely you are happy with the interiors of your subarus. I was to, until I was asked to pay 40 grand for a car with essentially a 15k dollar interior. I will pass on that.


Cannedtuna, ignore Snow Drift he lives his life one quarter mile at a time. You have actually driven the Golf R and know it is FAR more than any GTI will ever hope to be. Drift has read a 0-60 time so he knows everything he needs to know about the whole car. I had an 06 STI as well and the Golf R is not as raw as the STI is, but you would need to be on a track to exploit that last 5% of all out insanity the STI gives you. Out of the box the STI is a better track car. I will not argue that on any day, ever. On the street the Golf R is in another league all around usable performance and comfort

If I had to summarize everything you need to know about the Golf R and any subaru on the lot. There is not a Subaru made today that offers the total package of the Golf R (reliability not accounted for mind you, LOL). If there was I would have bought the darn thing!!!!
No worries man, I was skeptical too before the test drive but now I'm a lot more open. I agree entirely with everything that you've said. For me I'm looking for a fun car with a little bit of DD comfort. I can go and buy an STI and enjoy the thrill of driving a car that performs great, but is a total let down in the department that I value the most when I'm driving to and fro. Now I'm not willing to cross over just yet, I'm really hoping that the next WRX or STI is just that good; but my hopes for that aren't too high right about now. Just look at the 2014 Forester XT, if that's a taste of what's to come then its just not good enough to keep me on board.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:37 AM   #1621
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I live in VA (Newport News) and my Haldex II (Volvo S60 R) has never gotten me stuck in the snow or decided to send me all off-road involuntarily on slick road/ loose gravel.... turning or straight. I too have test-driven a Golf R (3 door) and was very impressed with the interior, the transmission, and the ride quality. I don't know if it will break (VW reliability)..... But the ring land issue is kinda troublesome too. I'm waiting to see what Subaru does.... I like some of the quirky things about Subarus. Love the rumble from turbo EJs. I was very happy with my Legacy GT but the Volvo has more power, features, and better gas mileage. ( I did buy my S60 R used)
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #1622
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Go take the Golf R in the mud or deep snow and then the WRX or STI and tell us fake AWD is just as good.

You live in Texas so a lot of the benefit of mechanical AWD is lost unless you go mudding.
I bet your STI can't go places my snowmobile can! So what's your point? The STI isn't the end-all, be-all of cars. For every car on the road, there is another that does something better than it does. So what's your point?
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:36 AM   #1623
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So when is the "reveal"? The 27th or 28th?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #1624
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Originally Posted by GetTheLedOut View Post
I bet your STI can't go places my snowmobile can! So what's your point? The STI isn't the end-all, be-all of cars. For every car on the road, there is another that does something better than it does. So what's your point?
GAME ON!
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #1625
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It just occured to me that this splitting of the WRX and Impreza into separate models doesnt mean that the Impreza wont be offered in STi trim.

I have a feeling we will see the following in the coming months/years:

WRX
Impreza
WRX STi
Impreza STi

So you folks who want 300+ hp and 4-5 door practicality get your cake and eat it too with Impreza STi.

and folks who want a true competitor can get a WRX STi for light weight, small yet powerful, 2/3 awd sports monster.

Subaru squeezes out the awesome juice from the Impreza WRX STi and pour it into a concentrated little cup for the true rally-race diehards in the form of a new small 2/3 door.

As the old saying goes, "3 doors or less, awesome success! 4 doors or more, GROCERY STORE!"

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