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Old 03-22-2013, 09:30 AM   #2726
riddlinkidd66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acejam2k View Post
The Crawford AOS install does not cap off the PCV valve; it deletes it entirely. The PCV valve is directly under the throttle body, and the TB must be removed to gain access.
My bad. I didn't see the update to the instructions.
^This is not the point anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acejam2k View Post
The PCV valve is considered an emissions control device. Emissions control devices cannot be removed in ST*. (This is why you must remain catted, for example)
Yes, the PCV is being removed, it is also being replaced with the AOS which serves the exact same function. The rules also say the PCV cannot be replaced. This is where I have the problem. You CAN replace a Cat with any cat.

Rules are Rules, you must abide by them blah blah. I understand. I am not going to break any rules and I am not trying to whine about anything. Lets have an intellectual discussion on why or why not the rule could be or should be changed.

Replacing the unit with a better one will still retain the emissions functionality. I am having a hard time seeing how you can extrapolate this issue into a modification which replaces the PCV valve that creates an overwhelming advantage. Does anyone have any ideas how you could replace the PCV and gain a huge advantage? Like stated before, you are not even allowed to run higher boost levels anyway.

Simply put, a PCV valve replacement should easily be allowable. If you can upgrade exhaust pieces for increased flow and better power in this class, then doing a mod that has no effect on emissions, no significant effect on power, no effect on chassis stability... it should be a no-brainier.

From Crawford themselves:
"This not only keeps the vehicle within specs of smog but keeps the oil from coating the tops of the pistons. We all know what that does to any tune you have; it causes detonation, a very bad thing for turbo engines."
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #2727
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Originally Posted by bassicfun View Post
Care to explain this? we have 3 national champions. a few who CONSISTENTLY finish 2-4th at nationals, and a few who have started running with us that are in the SAME mix in PAX... quite confused with that statement.
Columbus Indiana ya nerd

Think you'd catch me driving 5 hours for a single day event?
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:17 AM   #2728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddlinkidd66 View Post
Simply put, a PCV valve replacement should easily be allowable. If you can upgrade exhaust pieces for increased flow and better power in this class, then doing a mod that has no effect on emissions, no significant effect on power, no effect on chassis stability... it should be a no-brainier.

From Crawford themselves:
"This not only keeps the vehicle within specs of smog but keeps the oil from coating the tops of the pistons. We all know what that does to any tune you have; it causes detonation, a very bad thing for turbo engines."
I don't entirely disagree with your general logic here, but another response to this would be that you can obtain similar results utilizing a different manufacturers product (Grimmspeed) or other methods (classic catch can). What you're suggesting is making a rule change to allow a specific part. I get that it's not a performance increase, but it's not as if you can't achieve the same functionality in a different manner.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:20 AM   #2729
riddlinkidd66
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You're right that is a good response and a good argument against changing the rules.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:13 PM   #2730
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Originally Posted by riddlinkidd66 View Post
You're right that is a good response and a good argument against changing the rules.
I'll say this with all due respect....

Listen to what Daniel said: put on your AOS and go and run in your local events in STU (check with the locals first, if you must) and have fun.

I used to be very concerned with staying within the rules, and I still am. I even went to the measure of making several changes to my last car (wrx) to make it legal for STX. I changed downpipes, went back to the stock bcs, and got it retuned at stock boost. Would anyone have known (before I made the changes) that I was illegal for STX? Nope. Would anyone care at the local events? Nope (because I wasn't beating anyone!).

My car was almost always classed incorrectly the first couple years that I raced casually (STU, DSP, etc) because I asked others what class I should be in and they had no clue. Once I finally made the changes and got my car in STX, one of the local subaru guys who competes nationally came over and we were talking about my car - he noticed aftermarket intercooler hoses that technically bumped me into street prepared. Did he still care? Nope!..I also wasn't beating him yet.

So, long story short, get your car prepared properly for your class, and if there is a mod that you really want to add, ask others and see if they care. As long as its a local event, and you are not beating the piss out of everyone because of that mod, no one will care!

When you start winning, and start going to nationals, that's when every mod, every trim piece, nut, bolt, etc. matter. Until then, get some seat time and have fun

So anyway, long story short, let's keep this thread about setups and not rules complaints. Sure, we can talk about ways to add an AOS legally. But perhaps the main NASIOC autox or SCCA forum would be a better place to have rules discussions.

Ok, I digress...party on
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:11 PM   #2731
Acejam2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddlinkidd66 View Post
Yes, the PCV is being removed, it is also being replaced with the AOS which serves the exact same function. The rules also say the PCV cannot be replaced. This is where I have the problem. You CAN replace a Cat with any cat.

Rules are Rules, you must abide by them blah blah. I understand. I am not going to break any rules and I am not trying to whine about anything. Lets have an intellectual discussion on why or why not the rule could be or should be changed.

Replacing the unit with a better one will still retain the emissions functionality. I am having a hard time seeing how you can extrapolate this issue into a modification which replaces the PCV valve that creates an overwhelming advantage. Does anyone have any ideas how you could replace the PCV and gain a huge advantage? Like stated before, you are not even allowed to run higher boost levels anyway.

Simply put, a PCV valve replacement should easily be allowable. If you can upgrade exhaust pieces for increased flow and better power in this class, then doing a mod that has no effect on emissions, no significant effect on power, no effect on chassis stability... it should be a no-brainier.

From Crawford themselves:
"This not only keeps the vehicle within specs of smog but keeps the oil from coating the tops of the pistons. We all know what that does to any tune you have; it causes detonation, a very bad thing for turbo engines."
The PCV is removed and the port where it used to be is plugged. The AOS doesn't not "replace" the PCV, it's "added", as the AOS can serves a different purpose. (it's not a valve) Replacing the unit with a better one (assuming you implied AOS) will *not* retain emissions functionality. Please read up on how a PCV works.

Crawford may advertise it as keeping in spec with smog, but the reality is it's not 100% the same. You are correct in that it will not create an advantage, however that's not the point. If you change the rule, there are other cars within the class that may be able to take advantage, etc. It needs to be looked at from all angles, and the point of a class is to prep your car to that specific ruleset. If you're just running locally, like others said, just go out and enjoy your car.

I'm all for reliability mods and would agree that it should hopefully one day be legal. However I'm an ASP guy who just butted my head in here when I saw the words "Crawford AOS". Luckily I don't have to worry about that restriction in in *SP.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #2732
riddlinkidd66
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This makes me a sad panda. You are right i should further understand the entire pcv system before i take Crawford's word on it. I noobed out on that one. But I'm not giving up on my hopes yet ;-)
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #2733
Acejam2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddlinkidd66 View Post
This makes me a sad panda. You are right i should further understand the entire pcv system before i take Crawford's word on it. I noobed out on that one. But I'm not giving up on my hopes yet ;-)
No worries. At least you're taking the time to research things before hand. A lot of people don't bother doing that, so consider yourself one step ahead.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:37 PM   #2734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riddlinkidd66 View Post
I know this topic was touched on earlier but I decided to contact SCCA in my region to see what they had to say about. So i want to share my findings with my fellow Subies:

This is regarding the Crawford AOS which caps off the stock PCV.

I wrote to the South Carolina Region SCCA:

"The 2013 classing rules for Street touring in Section 14.10 C. states:
The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet may be
modified or replaced. The engine inlet is the throttle body, carburetor,
compressor inlet, or intake manifold, whichever comes first. The
existing structure of the car may not be modified for the passage of
ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet. Holes may be drilled
for mounting. Emissions or engine management components in the
air intake system, such as a PCV valve or mass airflow sensor, may
not be removed, modified, or replaced, and must retain their original
function along the flow path.

I want to install a Crawford Air-Oil Seperator (AOS) on my Subaru WRX STi for ENGINE SAFETY AND RELIABILITY. These cars have a LOT of oil blow-by in autocross. This AOS stops this from occurring. Effectively keeping octane levels from dropping and reducing the occurrence of detonation and knock.

The Crawford AOS installation caps’s off the PCV valve via a rubber cap over the inlet.

I wanted to know if there is any way this safety precaution (AOS) would be permitted in the street touring classification. I think that most would agree that this AOS is not a performance enhancement but rather a safety net in order to compete and keep the engine safe.

If you can advise me on whether or not this is allowable for street touring classification or not, please let me know. If not I would like to propose and exception in the ruling be made to allow for these types of modifications."


This was their reply:

"Your purpose for the modification fits within the "spirit of the rules" as far as I am concerned. It may not pass muster at a national level event, but at local events you will find that your competitors do not mind. The easiest thing to do is just ask your competitors "Hey, I put this on to protect my engine, but I would like to run street touring class against you, do you mind?" 9 times out of 10 they will not mind at a local event. Let me know if you have any further questions, and go play in STU!

Thanks!

Daniel"

My Conclusion: Nothing matters until you get good... lol
You could just do what I did, and make a simple STU-legal catch can setup for your car. I will be at Black Lake on Sunday (37 PSTU), if you want a look at it. All said, I spent less than $10, so you'd be saving quite a bit over the Crawford kit, too.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:49 AM   #2735
wrxsomeday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
You could just do what I did, and make a simple STU-legal catch can setup for your car. I will be at Black Lake on Sunday (37 PSTU), if you want a look at it. All said, I spent less than $10, so you'd be saving quite a bit over the Crawford kit, too.
You've caught my interest - details/pics?
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #2736
ButtDyno
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Fyi... Piqued
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:02 PM   #2737
wrxsomeday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
Fyi... Piqued
Haha thanks, I realized my mistake right after I posted and changed it I ain't realized their was other proper speakin' folks on dis here nasioc website!
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #2738
boileralum00
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What pressures are you guys using with Z1 Star Specs? My first runs in the car will be at an Evo school this weekend, and I'd like to be close so I can focus on all the other things I have forgotten during the past 5 years of not autocrossing.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:32 PM   #2739
abrumlev
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39/37 was Austin and I's magic setup the majority of last year.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #2740
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Gracias!
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:04 PM   #2741
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38/33
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:13 PM   #2742
Harry
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Originally Posted by wrxsomeday View Post
Haha thanks, I realized my mistake right after I posted and changed it I ain't realized their was other proper speakin' folks on dis here nasioc website!
I understands you'res suprize, given that ther grammarian drives an Evo

- Harry
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:37 PM   #2743
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Originally Posted by boileralum00 View Post
What pressures are you guys using with Z1 Star Specs? My first runs in the car will be at an Evo school this weekend, and I'd like to be close so I can focus on all the other things I have forgotten during the past 5 years of not autocrossing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrumlev View Post
39/37 was Austin and I's magic setup the majority of last year.
That ^. But I am guessing you will run slightly different pressures than we did thanks to a different wheel width, but maybe those will end up working out well for you too.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:45 PM   #2744
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Originally Posted by yazel View Post
That ^. But I am guessing you will run slightly different pressures than we did thanks to a different wheel width, but maybe those will end up working out well for you too.
I ran 36/30 on the Z1's...running the same on the Z2's and Rivals as of now.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #2745
boileralum00
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Originally Posted by yazel View Post
That ^. But I am guessing you will run slightly different pressures than we did thanks to a different wheel width, but maybe those will end up working out well for you too.
It at least gives me a starting point.

I need to see if I still have an air tank somewhere.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:27 PM   #2746
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Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
I ran 36/30 on the Z1's...running the same on the Z2's and Rivals as of now.
We were on fixed perch struts and springs last year, so I believe that made a difference in how much pressure we ran. I am sure it will be different this year, at least somewhat.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:45 AM   #2747
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What PSI do people with the stock Dunlop SP Sport 01 run?
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:12 AM   #2748
boileralum00
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Finally got some seat time in the car this weekend. Did an Evo school Saturday, and realized that after 4 years I still had the fundamentals down, but am still learning the differences in braking and lateral grip with street tires and AWD vs the DSP Civic on Hoosier that I ran as my last autocross car. Ran a fun event today, and couldn't get all the pieces put together the way I wanted, but working those rusty bits off will happen. Still ended up 12th in both raw and pax, which I am okay with for my first event after a 5 year hiatus from the sport in a completely different car.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:45 AM   #2749
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
What PSI do people with the stock Dunlop SP Sport 01 run?
They don't Just start them high and lower them til you see the wear over onto the sidewall. I'd suggest 38/36 to start with
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:10 PM   #2750
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Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
What PSI do people with the stock Dunlop SP Sport 01 run?
This may be too late for an event yesterday, but...

I have a 2011 WRX, OEM tires, stock dampers, and stock sway bars, with zero toe on all 4 corners, -2* negative camber up front and stock camber in the rear. From tire temperature data with an infrared pyrometer, I found these pressures are the best for the tires:
43psi front, 41psi rear

My front tire temps have the middle temp half-way between inside and outside. My rear tire temps are even across the tire.

Have fun!

Scott
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