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Old 03-19-2013, 10:16 AM   #4026
Zeeper
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No one is concerned about meeting the Window Sticker numbers who is driving within the parameters of the EPA tests. Most of the complainers have one of three factors that are killing their MPG's:

1) cold start/short commutes where the engine never reaches operating temps.
2) high speed driving (you know who you are).
3) those who stomp on the accelerator.

If you drive on the highway at 65mph with the cruise on you will see 30-40mpg
If you drive in the city for distances more than 10 miles you will see the city numbers.

If you drive it like you stole it, or never let it warm up, or expect the EPA numbers at average speeds over 70mph it ain't gonna happen, and it isn't the fault of Subaru, nor the EPA, nor the PZEV, nor the CVT, etc.

And you can get better mpg with a fwd, or a prius. Them's are facts. You can get window stickers with this car, no matter what the transmission, but you need to drive like you value mpg's more than not.

Zauri, you already know all this because your car does fine when you drive it longer distances, but your short commute with a cold engine provides crap for mpg's. Potential City drivers should be aware, but it does not mean that the EPA test was gamed or Subaru is lying. The EPA test uses a cold start but the rest of the 30 minute test is with the engine warming and warmed up.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:27 AM   #4027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauri View Post
What about current vehicles with similar ratings? Not trying to add fuel to the fire just asking though.

Simply put most of the equally rated FWD counterparts are pulling averages of around 29-31. Those barely scraping 25 are wondering why this car can't achieve these numbers with the same type of driving even with all factors considered.
I get 28.5 with mediated driving, basically always drive at 75, and tend to add 5 or 10 around town depending on traffic. I don't floor it often. When I tried I got 30. Then I got bored. But yes, it is possible.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:31 AM   #4028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
I get 28.5 with mediated driving, basically always drive at 75, and tend to add 5 or 10 around town depending on traffic. I don't floor it often. When I tried I got 30. Then I got bored. But yes, it is possible.
I average about 24-25 with a lead foot. 27 feathered. and 33 when I take long trips. Not jaw dropping but it'll do for now. and yes that feathering crap just takes all the soul out of how much fun it is to drive this car.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #4029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
No one is concerned about meeting the Window Sticker numbers who is driving within the parameters of the EPA tests. Most of the complainers have one of three factors that are killing their MPG's:

1) cold start/short commutes where the engine never reaches operating temps.
2) high speed driving (you know who you are).
3) those who stomp on the accelerator.

If you drive on the highway at 65mph with the cruise on you will see 30-40mpg
If you drive in the city for distances more than 10 miles you will see the city numbers.

If you drive it like you stole it, or never let it warm up, or expect the EPA numbers at average speeds over 70mph it ain't gonna happen, and it isn't the fault of Subaru, nor the EPA, nor the PZEV, nor the CVT, etc.

And you can get better mpg with a fwd, or a prius. Them's are facts. You can get window stickers with this car, no matter what the transmission, but you need to drive like you value mpg's more than not.

Zauri, you already know all this because your car does fine when you drive it longer distances, but your short commute with a cold engine provides crap for mpg's. Potential City drivers should be aware, but it does not mean that the EPA test was gamed or Subaru is lying. The EPA test uses a cold start but the rest of the 30 minute test is with the engine warming and warmed up.
Of course.

Yeah I wasn't referring to my case(as I have little/no issue tbh) just providing perspective for where all the the discontent continuously comes from.(It tends to get lost in all the pot shotting). I also do not think Subaru is on the hook for false advertising, not even close.

On those days where it has warmed I have already seen a slight improvement in how this cars performs MPG wise. Also I have started driving further into work instead of the short trips to the bus stop. Only managed about a 1-2 mpg increase but my tanks are inching much closer to at or above 300 miles now.

Mid distances drives > 10 but < 20 are often a toss up between the factors listed above. Mine are on back roads that tend to result in a constant mid speed drive with a few stops here and there which of course has contributed to the slight improvement.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:12 PM   #4030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauri View Post
What about current vehicles with similar ratings? Not trying to add fuel to the fire just asking though.

Simply put most of the equally rated FWD counterparts are pulling averages of around 29-31. Those barely scraping 25 are wondering why this car can't achieve these numbers with the same type of driving even with all factors considered.
This is precisely the logical failure. Take all of those cars with equivalent numbers and run them through the EPA test and they'll probably come out about the same. I'm sure you'd see a greater disparity if the EPA tests were closer to "normal" driving styles. The details on the EPA tests are just silly.
Look at the "Detailed Comparison" tab on this page:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
What has been established here ad nauseum is that the Impreza differs greatly from other cars OUTSIDE of that test.

It is what it is and there's nothing to be done about it except get a different car if it means that much to the owner. I'd probably be really upset too if I were the leadfoot impatient type. But I'm not. I love my Imp even if it isn't quite as fuel efficient as I'd like it to be.

If the haters eventually sue and win, I'll take the annual $100 debit cards that the Feddle Gubmint would force Subaru to send. Not that I think the haters have a leg to stand on or the fortitude to even start a lawsuit...
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:01 PM   #4031
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I think the root cause of the CVT mileage issue is that it's harder to drive in an efficient manner with an auto transmission. In a manual, it seems like if you short shift and don't drive like an idiot, you'll get good mileage...with an automatic, you either have to force it to do so (which I haven't tried yet) or change your driving style.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:11 PM   #4032
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The automatic knows what to do. Most people accelerate faster than what is the most efficient. The Impreza has a small engine. A larger engine might do 0-60 in 10 seconds more efficiently than the 2.0, as this would put the Impreza at max output, while the larger engine would only be operation at 70% (for example) of that or so. If you use a light foot and accelerate slowly, the automatic will behave accordingly. If you use a heavy foot and accelerate quickly, the automatic will behave accordingly.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #4033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post

This is precisely the logical failure. Take all of those cars with equivalent numbers and run them through the EPA test and they'll probably come out about the same. I'm sure you'd see a greater disparity if the EPA tests were closer to "normal" driving styles. The details on the EPA tests are just silly.
Look at the "Detailed Comparison" tab on this page:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
What has been established here ad nauseum is that the Impreza differs greatly from other cars OUTSIDE of that test.
The logical failure here is that if you stray away from the EPA standards on most other cars the hit on MPG is not nearly as significant as it is for some of us. If we stray from the EPA standard it's a huge drop in fuel economy compared to EPA ratings. If you stray from the standard in the same exact manner in most other cars (not ALL FWD btw) you still get pretty close to EPA ratings.

Saying WHY ad naseum we get lower numbers does not explain WHY THIS PARTICULAR CAR suffers more when straying than others. & it's not ONLY an AWD vs FWD concept here. I myself stray from these standards & know why I get lower numbers. But I've strayed far more in my younger, faster days in many other cars (other AWD & another Subaru CVT recently too) & have still come very close to the EPA ratings. Even taking the old testing methods into consideration back then which would rate slightly higher I was able to come close, meet & exceed the ratings. But on this car.... not gonna happen. & I'm okay with that for the most part. But.....

That's the illogical part & why people are upset. That's what a handful of folks here seem to be missing the point on.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:35 PM   #4034
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I understand people are upset/disappointed. I'm not denying the emotional part at all. I'm slightly disappointed in the mileage but we've THOROUGHLY identified the shortcomings and workarounds. I suppose the options are adjust, replace, sue, or stay upset. Pick one. We all have to live with our choices so enjoy your first world problems.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:10 AM   #4035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
This is precisely the logical failure. Take all of those cars with equivalent numbers and run them through the EPA test and they'll probably come out about the same.
LMFAO.

We understand that those (especially the unqualified to comment with the 5MT) who do not understand this relationship might be happy with their new car:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2477627

But those of us who have had several new or newer cars and understand a little math know there is a problem.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:44 AM   #4036
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That thread is a rehash of this thread started by you to tilt at windmills.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:51 AM   #4037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
LMFAO.

We understand that those (especially the unqualified to comment with the 5MT) who do not understand this relationship might be happy with their new car:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2477627

But those of us who have had several new or newer cars and understand a little math know there is a problem.
Not all the cvt owners are unhappy with their car so don't put us all in the same category. You are entitled to your opinion but that is all, your opinion not facts.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:31 AM   #4038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
No one is concerned about meeting the Window Sticker numbers who is driving within the parameters of the EPA tests. Most of the complainers have one of three factors that are killing their MPG's:

1) cold start/short commutes where the engine never reaches operating temps.
2) high speed driving (you know who you are).
3) those who stomp on the accelerator.

If you drive on the highway at 65mph with the cruise on you will see 30-40mpg
If you drive in the city for distances more than 10 miles you will see the city numbers.

If you drive it like you stole it, or never let it warm up, or expect the EPA numbers at average speeds over 70mph it ain't gonna happen, and it isn't the fault of Subaru, nor the EPA, nor the PZEV, nor the CVT, etc.

And you can get better mpg with a fwd, or a prius. Them's are facts. You can get window stickers with this car, no matter what the transmission, but you need to drive like you value mpg's more than not.

Zauri, you already know all this because your car does fine when you drive it longer distances, but your short commute with a cold engine provides crap for mpg's. Potential City drivers should be aware, but it does not mean that the EPA test was gamed or Subaru is lying. The EPA test uses a cold start but the rest of the 30 minute test is with the engine warming and warmed up.
All true, it can take about 10-20 min for the oil to reach operating temp from a cold start. Go drive it for 5 min, stop, check the oil with your fingers, it will still be cold to the touch, depending on ambient temp, even though the blue temp light is out. Once the oil reaches operating temp it will start to cook off the moisture from condensation. I sure miss having gauges on this car and that is a future mod I intend to make.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:51 AM   #4039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caocao View Post
Not all the cvt owners are unhappy with their car so don't put us all in the same category. You are entitled to your opinion but that is all, your opinion not facts.
Sorry, we are all entitled to the facts. Besides, I didn't say I was unhappy with the car, I am unhappy with the mpg because it doesn't get the mpg of other cars rated at 36 mpg highway EPA.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #4040
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You stating something doesn't make it a fact!
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:28 PM   #4041
Monkeybones
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Default Better mileage after oil change, AEM filter

I wanted to wait to comment to this post until after my first oil change. I, like many others didn't have the best mileage out of my 2012 5-door CVT when new. But after my first oil change (a little late at 8k), filled with Mobile 1 and a Bosch premium filter, I also put an AEM filter on at the same time. My average mileage (according to the computer) would hardly ever get close to 36 on long flat highway cruises in TX before the oil/filter change. Now I am happy to comment that even with the AC on and not really paying much attention to efficient driving, the same computer is registering on the higher end of 36, even saw some 37/38 figures briefly. Now I haven't calculated my actual MPG yet, but I figure that if the computer was registering under 36 before, and now is registering above 36 without me disconnecting the battery (if that really changes anything) then its still an improvement. I'll update later with an actual calculation.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:57 PM   #4042
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With cruise control on and going 50mph, I can get 38-40 mpg. It's just a harsh fact that you need to keep the rpms down under 2k or so to get decent milage
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:54 PM   #4043
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2012 Sport, CVT.

So I just finished a round trip of about 700 miles between MD and CT. I was at about 12k miles at the start, having only completed the 7500mi oil change. The trip was 95% highway, and was fairly varied elevation wise.

Each way consisted of 1 tank of gas. I averaged 32 MPG via Fuelly, 34 MPG on the digital read out. I stuck to 62 mph in 55 mph zones and 65 mph in 65 mph zones.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:55 PM   #4044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomadic Logic View Post
2012 Sport, CVT.

So I just finished a round trip of about 700 miles between MD and CT. I was at about 12k miles at the start, having only completed the 7500mi oil change. The trip was 95% highway, and was fairly varied elevation wise.

Each way consisted of 1 tank of gas. I averaged 32 MPG via Fuelly, 34 MPG on the digital read out. I stuck to 62 mph in 55 mph zones and 65 mph in 65 mph zones.
Thanks for sharing.. did you hand calc? Sounds like you drove responsibly and economically. JMO but I would have expected a bit higher MPG based upon the MPG claims for this car.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:28 AM   #4045
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You cant justify expecting 36mpg when all you know is approx. avg. speed and distance. Many other things to consider: acceleration, road conditions, tire pressure, temperature, precipitation, traffic to name a few. All affect fuel economy so its hard to ecpect a certain number. To expect to be within the epa range of highway mileage is more reasonable. JMO

32 sounds pretty decent to me.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:33 AM   #4046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
You cant justify expecting 36mpg when all you know is approx. avg. speed and distance. Many other things to consider: acceleration, road conditions, tire pressure, temperature, precipitation, traffic to name a few. All affect fuel economy so its hard to ecpect a certain number. To expect to be within the epa range of highway mileage is more reasonable. JMO

32 sounds pretty decent to me.
also winter fuel blends, usually 10% ethanol, which returns fewer mpg's. So the same exact drive in the summer could be return another 2-3 mpg.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:52 AM   #4047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
also winter fuel blends, usually 10% ethanol, which returns fewer mpg's. So the same exact drive in the summer could be return another 2-3 mpg.
You're probably right about 2-3 mpg.

Unfortunately for CVT owners (which leaves you out) 2-3 mpg just isn't going to do it, if one knows how well other 36 mpg highway EPA cars do. Here's the evidence (called data for you Zeeper) that the Impreza CVT should be rated at no more than 32 mpg highway:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2477627
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:05 AM   #4048
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My 39mpg at 65mph must be a freak statistal anomaly.
This car punishes heavy feet. I bet I could make your car get good mpg.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:15 AM   #4049
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my money's on hemo.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:50 AM   #4050
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i don't believe you got 39mpg because clearly when I got 38mpg in the 5speed it was proven that I was doing 60 in a 55mph zone and clearly no one drives that speed on i90. Your numbers sir are a complete fabrication

stop being an anomaly



/ sarcasim
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