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Old 04-01-2013, 02:29 PM   #26
dwx
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If Kia comes out with something the engine will be great but the chassis and gearbox will be crap. The Genesis Coupe could be such a great car if not for a couple of really bad shortcomings, this won't be any different unfortunately.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:20 AM   #27
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I wouldn't count them out yet. The Korean car manufacturers are improving their products at a faster rate than the Japanese did when they started selling cars in the US. IMO, Kia has a better chance of building a RWD car that can take on the BRZ/FRS and MX-5 than say, Nissan or Honda or any US-branded auto manufacturer in the near future.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:31 AM   #28
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I wouldn't count them out yet. The Korean car manufacturers are improving their products at a faster rate than the Japanese did when they started selling cars in the US. IMO, Kia has a better chance of building a RWD car that can take on the BRZ/FRS and MX-5 than say, Nissan or Honda or any US-branded auto manufacturer in the near future.
Improving quality, reliability etc. is one this. Getting a car to feel right is something else. Most Japanese car makers still don't do it well.

Nissan has experience with the 370z and Honda had the S2000, so I see no reason to doubt their abilities. Both with long motorsports reputations. Ever seen a Kia win a major race?
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:58 AM   #29
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Improving quality, reliability etc. is one this. Getting a car to feel right is something else. Most Japanese car makers still don't do it well.

Nissan has experience with the 370z and Honda had the S2000, so I see no reason to doubt their abilities. Both with long motorsports reputations. Ever seen a Kia win a major race?
Ever see a good looking Kia/Hyundai before the last few years? Me neither.

Let's see what they do before we count them out.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:05 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by AllAWD View Post
Improving quality, reliability etc. is one this. Getting a car to feel right is something else. Most Japanese car makers still don't do it well.

Nissan has experience with the 370z and Honda had the S2000, so I see no reason to doubt their abilities. Both with long motorsports reputations. Ever seen a Kia win a major race?
Kia has the opportunity to build upon the lessons learned from Hyundai's Genesis coupe - a rather ambitious first attempt at RWD performance that admittedly hasn't taken off given its shortcomings. Nissan and Honda do have the experience and motorsports heritage, but even they had to start from scratch. Not sure if Nissan's FM platform can be shrunk any further and Honda seems to be even more RWD-averse these days so it doesn't look like they are even close to developing a BRZ/FRS/MX-5 competitor in any case.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:07 AM   #31
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Ever see a good looking Kia/Hyundai before the last few years? Me neither.

Let's see what they do before we count them out.
Peter Schryer, former Audi auto designer, changed that. Kia and Hyundai can thank him. So it looks like they needed to higher better people.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:25 AM   #32
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Is it likely millen racing will bring anything to the table production wise in the chassis/handling department?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:51 AM   #33
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I have to concur with the general zeitgeist of this thread.

HK competed with the Mustang/Nissan FM cars with the Genesis Coupe. Almost there.
HK tried to bring back the spirit of the CRX and compete with the Scirocco with the Veloster. Almost there.
HK gave a damn good effort with the Optima/Sonata but even arthritic old Honda still beat them with the new Accord.

Well, Kia does have some experience with two-seaters...
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:00 AM   #34
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Kia has the opportunity to build upon the lessons learned from Hyundai's Genesis coupe - a rather ambitious first attempt at RWD performance that admittedly hasn't taken off given its shortcomings. Nissan and Honda do have the experience and motorsports heritage, but even they had to start from scratch. Not sure if Nissan's FM platform can be shrunk any further and Honda seems to be even more RWD-averse these days so it doesn't look like they are even close to developing a BRZ/FRS/MX-5 competitor in any case.
You saying Kia learning from the experience of Hyundai building ONE large RWD coupe (that is closer to the 370z) is better poised than Nissan or Honda to build a BRZ competitor? No, just no.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:36 AM   #35
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By that same token, did the mention of Subaru + small, light, RWD coupe = legitimate driver's car seem plausible even a few years ago? Or that it would turn out as well as it did their first time out (admittedly with more than a bit of help from Toyota)?
As of now, there are no rumors surrounding either Nissan or Honda at all regarding a possible BRZ competitor. Also, unlike the two aforementioned manufacturers with the experience and know-how, Kia at the very least has expressed the desire to build a car to go head to head with the BRZ/FRS.

Last edited by hi5.0; 04-02-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:19 AM   #36
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Improving quality, reliability etc. is one this. Getting a car to feel right is something else. Most Japanese car makers still don't do it well.

Nissan has experience with the 370z and Honda had the S2000, so I see no reason to doubt their abilities. Both with long motorsports reputations. Ever seen a Kia win a major race?
Hyundai has some experience with rally when they were racing the Tiburon. Kia has had success in the Pirelli World Championship with the Optima. Kia Forte Koup has had success in the Grand-Am Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge. Sure, it isn't the same as F1/LeMans, but the two companies aren't devoid of motorsports. I wouldn't count them out at this point either.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:54 AM   #37
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By that same token, did the mention of Subaru + small, light, RWD coupe = legitimate driver's car seem plausible even a few years ago? Or that it would turn out as well as it did their first time out (admittedly with more than a bit of help from Toyota)?
As of now, there are no rumors surrounding either Nissan or Honda at all regarding a possible BRZ competitor.
Nissan needs to fix their Rogue and Murano first honestly. ;D 370z has the whole sports car thing down being the GTR's baby brother.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:45 AM   #38
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Hyundai has some experience with rally when they were racing the Tiburon. Kia has had success in the Pirelli World Championship with the Optima. Kia Forte Koup has had success in the Grand-Am Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge. Sure, it isn't the same as F1/LeMans, but the two companies aren't devoid of motorsports. I wouldn't count them out at this point either.
Thanks for pointing this out. I was just typing this. The Forte won the ST CHAMPIONSHIP in the Pirelli world championship.

Let me rephrase that. KIA did better than subaru did in a shorter time.

do not count out the Koreans. They were counted out when they first got here, and in 10 years they overtook almost anybody. They build up a luxury brand that gets great reviews and the Genesis coupe can give the 370Z a run for its money.

Say They do build a car that is 90% of the BRZ in feel and performance, but is just not quite there.

now imagine that car costing 19500 dollars. They may not claim the highest honors for performance, but value they rule on.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:29 AM   #39
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Say They do build a car that is 90% of the BRZ in feel and performance, but is just not quite there.

now imagine that car costing 19500 dollars. They may not claim the highest honors for performance, but value they rule on.
That's where I truly expect them to shine with this, if it ever comes.

IMO they could have had a market killer if they had left the 2.0t genesis coupe the same price after all the improvements. They felt they weren't competitive, so they made tons of improvements, but upped the price too, which left sales about where they were (very small).

The car is still awesome value for performance, but the v6 stang with track pack is just so hard to beat for the money being under 30k. The v6 GC is meh. Both the 370 & GC suck it up to the GT. The evo is a welcome competitor with a different take on how to get performance and the STi is middle of the road of the 5 30-40k sports cars.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:55 PM   #40
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Kia looks set to launch a new coupe and hot hatch in the next few years.

Benny Oeyen, Kia’s boss of European product planning, hinted at both a rear-wheel-drive GT coupe and 180bhp Rio GT when evo spoke to him at the 2013 Geneva motor show.

‘We are looking at the GT concept car we showed in Frankfurt in 2011; we are very close to approving that car’, Oeyen confirmed. ‘Our GT will be a little less pure than the Toyota GT86, more of a comfortable cruiser. We have rear-wheel drive platforms in the corporation, including the Genesis coupe. That architecture is quite flexible.’

He also spoke enthusiastically about extending the GT hot hatch line, with the Cee’d’ GT’s 1.6-litre turbo engine being utilised in the Fiesta-sized Rio hatchback. ‘A Rio GT is something that would be very cool. Technically we could do 200bhp but we would be looking at tuning it down so we have a hierarchy! Maybe around 180 would be nice.’

Oeyen also refused to rule out a more powerful version of the recently revealed Cee’d GT hot hatch, which produces 201bhp.

‘There is a reason our new Cee’d is called GT. Our car is not called ‘GTRS’ or something like that, we did not want to create a 295bhp all-wheel-drive monster. We think for our brand at this moment we are not ready for that. On purpose we positioned it as a GT.’ But could a more potent version follow? ‘At this moment not, but I won’t say never.’

It’s all part of a drive to elevate Kia from its current position, a company which sells sensible cars, to one with more emotional appeal. ‘Our cars are very rational but we need to ‘emotionalise’ the brand. Is it a brand you dream about or think is cool? Not yet. It’s something we want to work on and you do that through product’, said Oeyen.

One aspect of this is likely to be a production version of the Provo concept, which debuted at Geneva. ‘We will do market research here in Geneva and if the results are as positive as I predict we will have a very good look at that car. We have a flexible B-segment platform (from the Rio) and I think this would be a very good car for Kia, it is very cool. The Mini Cooper Coupe would be its prime rival.’
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/28...pe_coming.html
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:59 PM   #41
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It might be easier for Hyundai/Kia engineers to dial in the chassis of a lighter 2800 lbs vehicle as opposed to a portlier 3,300 lbs vehicle like the Genesis Coupe.
It's just easier to control a lighter chassis than an heavier one and Hyundai/Kia might just pull this one off.
As others said, additional competition in this segment can only be a good thing for us enthusiasts.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #42
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no Kia CAN'T take on the FRS . maybe in 10 years but those companies have no experience with making sporty cars, the genesis sucks! the veloster has a very crappy engine transmission combo with horrible acceleration numbers.

Both Toyota and Subaru have years and years of car racing experience which these Korean companies lack!
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #43
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Thanks for pointing this out. I was just typing this. The Forte won the ST CHAMPIONSHIP in the Pirelli world championship.

Let me rephrase that. KIA did better than subaru did in a shorter time.

do not count out the Koreans. They were counted out when they first got here, and in 10 years they overtook almost anybody. They build up a luxury brand that gets great reviews and the Genesis coupe can give the 370Z a run for its money.

Say They do build a car that is 90% of the BRZ in feel and performance, but is just not quite there.

now imagine that car costing 19500 dollars. They may not claim the highest honors for performance, but value they rule on.
That's all I have been saying. I didn't count anyone out, I just said they need a generation or two for refinement. The 5th gen Sonata was close, but they still had to undercut the price to move cars. The 6th gen Sonata was right with the competition and drawing the same cost as competition.

You give express one speculation of doubt and suddenly people are jumping around like they own stock in Kia.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:24 PM   #44
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no Kia CAN'T take on the FRS . maybe in 10 years but those companies have no experience with making sporty cars, the genesis sucks! the veloster has a very crappy engine transmission combo with horrible acceleration numbers.

Both Toyota and Subaru have years and years of car racing experience which these Korean companies lack!
Did you miss the WRC comment earlier? Also, the genesis coupe is very well received. It just has dead feeling steering (big deal, so does a GTR) and kinda sloppy gear box.

I think you're just talking out of your ass.

This vid shows the 2.0t beating the frs around a road course:

Now, in terms of looks, the FRS wins, but that's not saying much. Neither looks anywhere near as sexy as an AP2 s2000.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #45
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Now, in terms of looks, the FRS wins, but that's not saying much. Neither looks anywhere near as sexy as an AP2 s2000.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:41 PM   #46
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Ever see a good looking Kia/Hyundai before the last few years? Me neither.

Let's see what they do before we count them out.
This. I've never seen an automotive company make such a positive transformation in such a short time. They have the right resources now, and each new MY is better than the last. To under estimate them would be foolish.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #47
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S2000 is one of the best looking roadsters of all time!



(but srsy, the dick tail lights on the ft86 chassis, coupled with the horrible hood that is 1/2 of the fender, the straight nose line, the ambiguous "is this a hatch or is there a trunk" from any 3/4 view... is there even any competition?)

There is one amazing looking frs out there that beats a stock s2000, but it isn't stock (granted the are minor modifications):



That spoiler and lowered body line completely changes the car's look from boring to properly aggressive.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:42 PM   #48
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As of now, there are no rumors surrounding either Nissan or Honda at all regarding a possible BRZ competitor.
Well... there are rumors. There are S2000/Silvia successor rumors like every 6 months to a year popping up in magazines. Unfortunately, they are not the "someone high up in the company let it slip" or "saw a mule testing" kind of rumors, but rather the "a magazine just completely ****ing made it up and printed it" kind of rumors.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #49
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If it looks like this^... not a chance.



If it looks like this^, with Genesis Coupe's 2.0T 274hp drivetrain in a slightly more trim, and lighter body... and if it has a fastback hatch... FT86 triplets are in trouble.

Even if the Kia comes to 3000-3100lbs... but has that 75hp, and force-fed torque curve to compensate, it will be the winner, until either an H6 or an FA20DIT finds its way under the FT86 cars' hoods.

And BTW....

BRZ/FRS needs these tail lights FAR more than it needs any of the above pictured body kit stuff.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #50
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Had to put the H6 in there didn't you Hip old budd
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