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Old 04-03-2013, 10:48 AM   #1
Cocoa Beach Bum
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Default 2.0L DIT Factory-Equpped Oil Catch Can

This might not be the appropriate forum for discussion of FHI's new 2.0L DIT engine found in the 2014 Forester XT. Maybe a new forum should be created since the FA20 DIT is significantly different that the old EJ20 turbo engines.

Subaru apparently uses the more-technical term "tank" instead of "can" but I'm sure they are synonymous. If you search the 2014 Forester 2.0L turbo service manual for the terms "oil catch tank" (click here), you get some hits. But there are no hits from a similar search of the 2013 Forester 2.5L turbo service manual. There is a new Technician Reference Booklet for the 2014 Forester (Module 924) which probably has a description of this new system, but I don't have the subscription necessary to view it.

The system seems to be "closed" because I couldn't find any mention of an inspection/service interval for the oil catch tank in the Owner's Manual.

The FA20 engine used in the BRZ is equipped with Toyota's D4-S fuel injection system which utilizes both port- and direct-fuel-injection. The gasoline introduced into the intake manifold by the port injection acted as a solvent to prevent the intake valves from becoming gunked up by blowby oil mist. The new FA20 DIT engine eliminated the port injectors, so FHI needed a way to prevent blowby oil mist from entering the intake manifold.

A year ago, an FHI patent application in the US titled "Breather Apparatus for Engine" was published. You can view it here. According to the application's "Field Of The Invention" statement:
Quote:
The present invention relates to an engine breather apparatus that separates oil mist from blowby gas that is led from the crankcase toward the air intake system.
Now, just because FHI is trying to patent some ideas doesn't necessarily mean that any of those ideas have been incorporated into the FA20 DIT.

If anyone with STIS access could provide some additional detail (and I don't mean entire service manual dumps), I would appreciate it. A screen-grab of a diagram showing the oil catch tank and its connections would be nice.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:10 PM   #2
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never really thought about it, but I guess blowby control is pretty important when you go to a full DI engine.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #4
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So something in the intake indeed seems to separate oil from the air and sends it to this tank. Then the turbo takes care of it somehow? I'm assuming the separated oil is sent back to the engine.

Maybe the turbo just keeps the contents of the can hot and water-free and they eventually trickle down into the engine.

*edit* So hot turbo oil is pumped through the can and the vapors that are generated go back to the intake via the PCV hose. I still can't see how the bulk of the contents leave the can (or enter???) - perhaps there's a few feed/drain lines not mentioned in these pics. Otherwise the heat would have to keep liquid oil from accumulating and everything would leave through the PCV. Then the oil would be back in your intake

These types of things are sensitive to clogging failure modes... I see some plugs that will pop if it gets clogged/full so they've thought of that.

Last edited by fredzy; 04-25-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #5
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Very interesting. I'm sure there is a lot more going on than those diagrams show. I agree that the oil from the turbo is used to warm the catch can. There must be some type of drain back to the engine for both the oil from the turbo oil line, as well as oil passing through the PCV valve.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:27 PM   #6
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I think the turbo in the DIT is front mount, like in the timing belt area. This appears to be a catch tank that's shares it's output with the oil return from the turbo. The oil from the turbo keeps things warm enough that water stays vapor and since you need an oil return for the turbo anyway, the catch tank just kinda piggybacks onto that.

That's what it looks like to me anyway. Who knows how the air part is baffled. Not sure this matters a whole lot, the novel patentable art appears to be the use of the turbo oil return to provide both a drain path and the means of preventing condensate.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoa Beach Bum View Post
This might not be the appropriate forum for discussion of FHI's new 2.0L DIT engine found in the 2014 Forester XT. Maybe a new forum should be created since the FA20 DIT is significantly different that the old EJ20 turbo engines.

Subaru apparently uses the more-technical term "tank" instead of "can" but I'm sure they are synonymous. If you search the 2014 Forester 2.0L turbo service manual for the terms "oil catch tank" (click here), you get some hits. But there are no hits from a similar search of the 2013 Forester 2.5L turbo service manual. There is a new Technician Reference Booklet for the 2014 Forester (Module 924) which probably has a description of this new system, but I don't have the subscription necessary to view it.

The system seems to be "closed" because I couldn't find any mention of an inspection/service interval for the oil catch tank in the Owner's Manual.

The FA20 engine used in the BRZ is equipped with Toyota's D4-S fuel injection system which utilizes both port- and direct-fuel-injection. The gasoline introduced into the intake manifold by the port injection acted as a solvent to prevent the intake valves from becoming gunked up by blowby oil mist. The new FA20 DIT engine eliminated the port injectors, so FHI needed a way to prevent blowby oil mist from entering the intake manifold.

A year ago, an FHI patent application in the US titled "Breather Apparatus for Engine" was published. You can view it here. According to the application's "Field Of The Invention" statement:Now, just because FHI is trying to patent some ideas doesn't necessarily mean that any of those ideas have been incorporated into the FA20 DIT.

If anyone with STIS access could provide some additional detail (and I don't mean entire service manual dumps), I would appreciate it. A screen-grab of a diagram showing the oil catch tank and its connections would be nice.
Old thread, but current concerns.

Part of the reason I jumped into a 2014 Forester XT was because I had read the "Subaru AOS patent" papers and believed they had addressed the carbon-deposit issue. That has not proven to be the case, unfortunately. After obtaining the manual and looking for the patented device in vain I'm now concerned about the long term reliability of my FA20DIT engine.

The Oil Catch Tank is just that... the oil catch tank from the low-mount turbo's oil cooling system. The oil it catches immediately after cooling the turbo is returned to the oil supply by a scavenge pump. It's the same system in the 5th Gen Legacy. High-mount EJ turbo's oil simply drains directly back into the oil pan.

There is an Oil Separator in the rear of the block, but then there's been one in Subaru engines for generations. Nothing new, and nothing to do with addressing the issues unique to a direct injection engine.

I thought it was funny that there has been no more mention over these months since the 2014 FXT came out about how Subaru addressed the carbon issue. Now that the new 2015 WRX uses essentially the same motor the lack of a dialogue on the subject is even more strange.

The FA20DIT has now been in production for at least two years, one here and one in Japan. Unfortunately, however, there doesn't appear to be enough accumulated mileage to generate field data on carbon buildup in the engine. The disturbing fact remains that at some point there will be carbon buildup in this engine. There's simply no reason to believe otherwise.

For some disgusting pictures showing what happens in one DI engine, go here: http://www.bgfueltest.com/

I got rid of the best Subaru I've ever owned, my '11 STi Limited, because I didn't trust the EJ engine anymore. I'm beginning to regret that decision, as it appears I traded potential ringland problems for the certainty of carbon problems.

Personally, despite the rabid fervent over the 2015 STi having retained an "old and outdated" EJ engine, the 2015 STi is looking better all the time...
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:42 PM   #8
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I'm trying to follow what you're saying regarding this oil catch system doing nothing to separate oil/moisture from the air recirculated back into the intake (and considering you have some tech pubs you aught to know.)

But why is this catch can connected to the PCV system, and what is the purpose of the air intake duct? Is that all just for letting this can breathe? Are you certain it doesn't condense anything out of the air before sending it to the Intake manifold?
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Old thread, but current concerns.

Part of the reason I jumped into a 2014 Forester XT was because I had read the "Subaru AOS patent" papers and believed they had addressed the carbon-deposit issue. That has not proven to be the case, unfortunately. After obtaining the manual and looking for the patented device in vain I'm now concerned about the long term reliability of my FA20DIT engine.

The Oil Catch Tank is just that... the oil catch tank from the low-mount turbo's oil cooling system. The oil it catches immediately after cooling the turbo is returned to the oil supply by a scavenge pump. It's the same system in the 5th Gen Legacy. High-mount EJ turbo's oil simply drains directly back into the oil pan.

There is an Oil Separator in the rear of the block, but then there's been one in Subaru engines for generations. Nothing new, and nothing to do with addressing the issues unique to a direct injection engine.

I thought it was funny that there has been no more mention over these months since the 2014 FXT came out about how Subaru addressed the carbon issue. Now that the new 2015 WRX uses essentially the same motor the lack of a dialogue on the subject is even more strange.

The FA20DIT has now been in production for at least two years, one here and one in Japan. Unfortunately, however, there doesn't appear to be enough accumulated mileage to generate field data on carbon buildup in the engine. The disturbing fact remains that at some point there will be carbon buildup in this engine. There's simply no reason to believe otherwise.

For some disgusting pictures showing what happens in one DI engine, go here: http://www.bgfueltest.com/

I got rid of the best Subaru I've ever owned, my '11 STi Limited, because I didn't trust the EJ engine anymore. I'm beginning to regret that decision, as it appears I traded potential ringland problems for the certainty of carbon problems.

Personally, despite the rabid fervent over the 2015 STi having retained an "old and outdated" EJ engine, the 2015 STi is looking better all the time...
Are you serious? Ringland problems mean $texas/new motor. Carbon buildup means a 2-3 hour manual cleaning in your driveway, or a $400, 1.5 hr. media blast from your mechanic, once every 5 years or so.

One is a catastrophic engine failure, the other is really what amounts to maintenance item.

How the hell can you even begin to equate the two?
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:57 PM   #10
ProfessWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post

Old thread, but current concerns.

Part of the reason I jumped into a 2014 Forester XT was because I had read the "Subaru AOS patent" papers and believed they had addressed the carbon-deposit issue. That has not proven to be the case, unfortunately. After obtaining the manual and looking for the patented device in vain I'm now concerned about the long term reliability of my FA20DIT engine.

The Oil Catch Tank is just that... the oil catch tank from the low-mount turbo's oil cooling system. The oil it catches immediately after cooling the turbo is returned to the oil supply by a scavenge pump. It's the same system in the 5th Gen Legacy. High-mount EJ turbo's oil simply drains directly back into the oil pan.

There is an Oil Separator in the rear of the block, but then there's been one in Subaru engines for generations. Nothing new, and nothing to do with addressing the issues unique to a direct injection engine.

I thought it was funny that there has been no more mention over these months since the 2014 FXT came out about how Subaru addressed the carbon issue. Now that the new 2015 WRX uses essentially the same motor the lack of a dialogue on the subject is even more strange.

The FA20DIT has now been in production for at least two years, one here and one in Japan. Unfortunately, however, there doesn't appear to be enough accumulated mileage to generate field data on carbon buildup in the engine. The disturbing fact remains that at some point there will be carbon buildup in this engine. There's simply no reason to believe otherwise.

For some disgusting pictures showing what happens in one DI engine, go here: http://www.bgfueltest.com/

I got rid of the best Subaru I've ever owned, my '11 STi Limited, because I didn't trust the EJ engine anymore. I'm beginning to regret that decision, as it appears I traded potential ringland problems for the certainty of carbon problems.

Personally, despite the rabid fervent over the 2015 STi having retained an "old and outdated" EJ engine, the 2015 STi is looking better all the time...
Holy crap, there are explosions in internal combustion engines. I traded my safe steam engine in for this?!?! I thought the fire in my steam engine was bad!
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Holy crap, there are explosions in internal combustion engines. I traded my safe steam engine in for this?!?! I thought the fire in my steam engine was bad!
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:24 PM   #12
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Let's not make this a DI politics thread guys... contribute to the oil catch tank discussion only, or you can post it in news and rumors.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
The Oil Catch Tank is just that... the oil catch tank from the low-mount turbo's oil cooling system. The oil it catches immediately after cooling the turbo is returned to the oil supply by a scavenge pump. It's the same system in the 5th Gen Legacy. High-mount EJ turbo's oil simply drains directly back into the oil pan.
Haven't seen the manual for the '14 Forester yet, but as you said, that's certainly how it appears to work in the 5th gen LGT.
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