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Old 04-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #26
07VTRex
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welcome to subaru! they understeer....

more negative static front camber, and larger front sway/roll bar will help as well.

it appears you already have a good set of mods already. I would back off your rsb down some so its the same size or smaller than your front sway bar. TIC has a great article explaining why. trust me it helps.

also its a wrx and not an sti. the drivetrain (mainly differentials are not as sophisticated)

driving technique - i.e. weight transfer is really what your gonna have to change/get used to. your going to want to use momentum to get the rear out a little more right before you hit the apex to counteract the understeer, if that makes sense. ( you wont actually break the rear loose, just enough to get the weight transfer)

EDIT: personally, as i have run a very similar setup, assuming you are on 8k/6k standard bc coilovers, 16f 14r is pretty stiff. i would run something like 12f 8r on the damper settings (clicks from full soft). I found backing off the damping in an effort to allow a little more suspension travel will help outside tires grip better as weight transfer. this is just a suggestion based off nothing more than my butt dynos findings...ultimately i ended up getting tokico d specs and rce yellow and couldnt be happier. ****s all over bc coilovers that i used to think were great
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex View Post
welcome to subaru! they understeer....

more negative static front camber, and larger front sway/roll bar will help as well.

it appears you already have a good set of mods already. I would back off your rsb down some so its the same size or smaller than your front sway bar. TIC has a great article explaining why. trust me it helps.

also its a wrx and not an sti. the drivetrain (mainly differentials are not as sophisticated)

driving technique - i.e. weight transfer is really what your gonna have to change/get used to. your going to want to use momentum to get the rear out a little more right before you hit the apex to counteract the understeer, if that makes sense. ( you wont actually break the rear loose, just enough to get the weight transfer)
That makes total sense.

I will put the rear sway bar on the softest setting.

The only other bigger bar I know of for a wagon is the AD Motorsports. It's 25mm non adjustable.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #28
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A larger front bar will make understeer worse under acceleration, particularly so with crappy tires and your too-high spring rate. This is truth but it is your money to burn so good luck.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:39 PM   #29
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In the meantime, I know you said you were going to crank your camber plates in. Be careful with a lot of camber on crappy tires and ultra stiff rates. You don't need all that much if your car doesn't have much body roll (because crappy tires + ultra stiff springs means very little body roll). A little more than "oem spec" is probably good.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
A larger front bar will make understeer worse under acceleration, particularly so with crappy tires and your too-high spring rate. This is truth but it is your money to burn so good luck.
I never said I was gonna buy anything more than swift springs which I was already planning on doing.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AndyRoo View Post
In the meantime, I know you said you were going to crank your camber plates in. Be careful with a lot of camber on crappy tires and ultra stiff rates. You don't need all that much if your car doesn't have much body roll (because crappy tires + ultra stiff springs means very little body roll). A little more than "oem spec" is probably good.
I'll play around with the plates a little.

The body roll with the rates I have now isn't super super stiff, there is body roll. The ride isn't even that bad, I am young so what is tolerable to me may not be to someone else though.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:39 PM   #32
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:57 PM   #33
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OP....dont get bigger bars......you dont want or need them
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:00 PM   #34
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OP....dont get bigger bars......you dont want or need them
Roger.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Gonna also start doing some research on tires, since I do already plan on finally getting a "nice"set, I've heard good things about star spec, and with 17x9 +42 I should be able to get a 245 in with a little work.
Those are awesome tires, I've been through two sets of them. I recently switched to Federal 595 rsr's. Amazing tires too and significantly cheaper than the direzzas.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #36
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you mentioned that you have your front set 2 clicks stiffer than the rear, but you don't have a reason for doing it. remember, the suspension already comes balanced with the front stiffer, so start with matched settings. a stiffer front will make a car more understeery, so matching the settings should help. I have an 8k/7k setup, and I actually bumped up my rear more to make the car feel more neutral under power. I run with even hot tire pressures all around (38 on track), -2, -1.5 camber.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
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I was in third coming onto the on ramp and kept it there pickin up speed as I was going around. By the time I decided to hop on it towards the last bit of the circle I was right in the sweat spot of my vf39 power band. So I got on it pretty good and as the car started to pull I noticed my my apex or my line I was trying to keep started to drift away from me. As I got going faster I turned the wheel further around to try and keep it in the lane and not drift towards the outside, but the car almost felt like my Jetta I had light years ago.
You're doing it wrong.

Lots of talk in this thread about bad tires and bad alignment, but the greatest tires in the world and the bestest performance alignment won't make the car defy physics. If the car is understeering because you're hard on the gas mid-corner, and your response is to add in more steering input, the car is just going to continue to understeer. Great tires and a better alignment won't change that.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
You're doing it wrong.

Lots of talk in this thread about bad tires and bad alignment, but the greatest tires in the world and the bestest performance alignment won't make the car defy physics. If the car is understeering because you're hard on the gas mid-corner, and your response is to add in more steering input, the car is just going to continue to understeer. Great tires and a better alignment won't change that.
^ this

Nut behind the wheel. I'm surprised so many people are focusing on everything else. After the OP gets his alignment, futzes with his suspension more, spends $$$, the car will still do this behavior... maybe at slightly faster speeds.

OP, briefly lift the throttle a bit to tuck the nose in enough to get the car pointed in the right direction for the exit; holding the steering you have. Then roll back onto the gas and THEN see what AWD does for you.

But you're right, they way you're driving it, it will feel like FWD... because you're not using AWD the way you're supposed to.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
You're doing it wrong.

Lots of talk in this thread about bad tires and bad alignment, but the greatest tires in the world and the bestest performance alignment won't make the car defy physics. If the car is understeering because you're hard on the gas mid-corner, and your response is to add in more steering input, the car is just going to continue to understeer. Great tires and a better alignment won't change that.
Agreed, that too. More steering in that situation ain't gonna make the car turn more. Go auto-x.

- andy
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by AndyRoo View Post

Agreed, that too. More steering in that situation ain't gonna make the car turn more. Go auto-x.

- andy
I wish I could, I don't think there is much around my area. Im gonna look into it on my local forum.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:40 PM   #41
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Defiantly under steered the crap outta the subi this morning in the rain, taking a right hand turn, braked on entry, moderate throttle going through the turn, and increased power as i came up on the exit...... hit boost...... under steered like a mother.

From my first post i have done the following;

2.0 degree's of camber up front
Backed off the rear sway bar 1 hole, so it now is on medium
Changed Dampening on the coilovers to 12 clicks from soft front, 8 clicks from soft rear.

I think my next plan of action is to get the 8K/7K swift springs and see how that helps out. Currently I am on 12K Front 10K Rear, standard BC springs.

Also i need to check my tire pressure and adjust it to 36psi.

Also might back off the camber in the front a little bit as i feel i do not get enough body roll to engage the full tire grip, possibly on a slanted down hill circle on-ramp while pushing the envelope pretty good (Same on ramp situation in first post).

Last edited by rymaggi; 04-04-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:42 PM   #42
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I'm going to also spend some time actually paying attention to my driving habits. Try out some techniques suggested etc.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:40 PM   #43
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Are you surprised that you power understeer in limited grip situations? You're overcoming the front tires grip budget by asking it to do double duty (accelerate and steer). Try to keep the car steady and liiighly roll on the throttle as you exit the corner.

Our cars have a front weight bias, no springs, rollbars, camber, caster or magic tire choices are going to change that.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:47 PM   #44
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I am sure it is probably 25 percent car 75 percent driver.

I have only had my car ten months and I thought like you after I got my suspension mods done. I have RCE Yellow Springs with Koni inserts in 2008 struts with over to degrees of negative camber in the front and one in the back with 22 millimeter front and rear sway bars and end links and figured I could just drive through a wet parking lot and turn the wheel and hit the gas and have some amazing four wheel drive rally inspired slide through the parking lot.

All my car did was plow through the parking lot. I quickly discovered I needed to figure out how to drive my car again, that's why I plan on signing up for my regional Sports Car Club of America this summer and trying to figure out how to drive it in autocross.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #45
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I have an 06 STi. My car handles like a go-kart at Auto X. Even before all the mods it handled well. Its all about driving style. I remember my first AutoX i under steered the itshay out of my car. Just get more seat time in your car and you will learn what works and what doesnt. Good Luck!!!

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Old 04-04-2013, 06:13 PM   #46
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When my car was mostly stock with stg2 an only epic engineering lowering springs I used to be able to rip the thing everywhere it was a blast. Tail happy and "fun".

Seems like I need to re learn with all the hard mods I have added. Even though it handles great now, when i push the limits and break traction now, it's not fun.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #47
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So I ended up reducing tire pressure to 36psi, lowering the front dampening and added some camber to the front plates, cranked up the rear dampening. Seems to have more traction through turns. Haven't had a chance to push it through the on ramp yet though.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:39 PM   #48
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http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Sacramento/

A much better way to learn and have fun.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:34 PM   #49
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For anyone that stumbles across this thread, I ended up getting the swifts, made a world of a difference. All coils must be purchased with these springs. They are amazing.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:15 AM   #50
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Question: So I have 8/7k swift springs on my BC's that are valved for 10/8k, can someone shine some light on which end of the dampening soft/stiffness should I keep it in.

I have tried calling BC North America with no answer and no answer to my email.

0 being soft and 32 being full stiff.
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