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Old 04-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #1
warpath
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Default Police Car Startup Carbon Motors Abandons Plant, Leaves Town

Leftlane: http://www.leftlanenews.com/police-c...aves-town.html



Quote:
The startup automaker that promised to build high-tech police cars in Indiana has left town, reports indicate.

Carbon Motors has abandoned its Connersville, Indiana, assembly plant, taking with it all of tis equipment. According to the Connersville News-Examiner, the city's Street Department has painted over plant signage and removed the "Carbon Motors Drive" that ceremonially stood in front of the facility.

The police car manufacturer's fate was essentially sealed after it wasn't granted the $310 million loan it had requested from the Department of Energy a couple of years ago. Carbon fought back initially but soon faded away, leaving even Connersville's mayor a bit confused.

"No one has said anything about where they are going or what's going to happen, we just know they came and got their stuff," Connersville mayor Leonard Urban told the paper.

The former Visteon plant Carbon occupied was leased by the police car builder from the city of Connersville, but the two parties' deal expired officially yesterday. Carbon has made no move to extend or renew the lease.

Connersville was banking on Carbon to turn around Fayette County, which had Indiana's highest unemployment rate after Visteon closed up shop. Carbon promised upwards of 1,000 jobs that never materialized.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #2
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The only thing that plant has been used for in the past couple years is Indy SCCA autocrosses.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #3
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I was really hoping this company would get off the ground. It is just too bad. They were just flashing CG pictures of a truck to be released a few months ago.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:27 PM   #4
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If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by White out View Post
If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
I'm not convinced that they would have succeeded even if they'd come to market 2 years earlier and had been granted the DOE loan pre-Solyndra-skittishness.

About the only "startup" cars I see out in the wild--save for Teslas--are the odd MV-1 cab here and there. Their initial apparent strong take rate has been shown to have been a fluke, at least in Chicago, based on temporary privileges (cutting in line at the airport) since rescinded.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by White out View Post
If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
It was doomed from the beginning. Ultra-niche market and competition from three very experienced, well funded car makers. Not sure why they ever thought they could succeed.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #7
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Can't say I'm surprised at this news at all.

Ford Interceptor
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS

All contenders with serious roots with police departments around the country. Ain't no one got time fo' Carbon Motors!
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #8
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I'm surprised they got as far as they did. Serviceability is the biggest issue with police cars, most departments in major cities can't afford enough cars, so they run cars 24 hours a day for 3 shifts. Driving fast through bumpy city streets and over potholes takes it toll on police cars. Keeping cars out of the garage for as long as possible is ideal. You simply can't match chevy, dodge, or ford with it's dealer network and parts distribution. Most times you can have parts the same day, fix the car and have it back up and running within hours.

The integrated dash, and cool spy features are nice. But most departments can only afford the bare minimum for officers. Which is lights, sirens, and a laptop. The diesel engine is nice, but many of these new V6's surpass it in horsepower and are on par with fuel economy. So really i see no incentive to adopt this car.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
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I suspect part of their problem was actually selling their product. Having had direct first hand experience with them at a marketing/sales event I believe this is the case. They denied our chief and head of fleet any request to see the inside of the car of take measurements. Not the cabin, not the back seat, not the trunk. Kinda hard to sell a car to prospective buyers with specific needs when you won't let them examine your product before committing serious money to it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #10
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From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #11
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And how professional. The CEO of Carbon Motors is on Meetup, the same place where I look for twunts to date. Take that Alan Mulally!

http://www.meetup.com/The-Autotech-C...mber/84860462/
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
Yep. I'm sure the Carbon motors guys paid themselves well. Wouldn't be surprised if they run the same scam in a couple years with some other product.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
That's what pisses me off. My hard earned tax dollars are paying for crap like this, when there are already 3 comparable vehicles on the market. I don't see any extra value in their package other than, maybe a little extra comfort for the officers. But that's not something where a new vehicle needs to be made, they simply get the big 3 to spec out new seats.

Whichever government figurehead funded this project should be fired. They shouldn't just throw around money all willy nilly, there should be a returned value in the funding. Like new autonomous research that can save lives, or a new car that can return more MPG's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
And how professional. The CEO of Carbon Motors is on Meetup, the same place where I look for twunts to date. Take that Alan Mulally!

http://www.meetup.com/The-Autotech-C...mber/84860462/
What's a twunt?
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I'm not convinced that they would have succeeded even if they'd come to market 2 years earlier and had been granted the DOE loan pre-Solyndra-skittishness.

About the only "startup" cars I see out in the wild--save for Teslas--are the odd MV-1 cab here and there. Their initial apparent strong take rate has been shown to have been a fluke, at least in Chicago, based on temporary privileges (cutting in line at the airport) since rescinded.

I still see a lot of them around town, looking like fat-ass English cabs for Americans. Pace has bought a few as well as fat-ass para-transporters to replace their old Scion xBs.

Most new cabs are Altima hybrids, which took over after the old Escape hybrids stopped being made. Priuses are also pretty common.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #15
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The police market is pretty small. I think its around 60,000 cars annually and that includes SUV type cop cars. So really its targeting a audience of maybe 50,000. Pretty competitive when you have the Taurus, Charger, Impala, Tahoe, Durango, Explorer, and Caprice to compete with. To put all of the R&D even on 30000 units would make the vehicle price to high. It just to competitive to develop a car that would only be sold to police forces the company would need to spread the R&D of the general car over more units like Dodge, Chevy, and Ford already do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RM_2 View Post
Can't say I'm surprised at this news at all.

Ford Interceptor
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS

All contenders with serious roots with police departments around the country. Ain't no one got time fo' Carbon Motors!
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #16
shikataganai
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
That's what pisses me off. My hard earned tax dollars are paying for crap like this, when there are already 3 comparable vehicles on the market. I don't see any extra value in their package other than, maybe a little extra comfort for the officers. But that's not something where a new vehicle needs to be made, they simply get the big 3 to spec out new seats.

Whichever government figurehead funded this project should be fired. They shouldn't just throw around money all willy nilly, there should be a returned value in the funding. Like new autonomous research that can save lives, or a new car that can return more MPG's.?
Uh, did you miss the part about how the company folded because the DOE loan they were banking on was denied?
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