Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-23-2009, 11:29 PM   #101
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Anything I can do to help you, RaceFace.

patrickcycleshop - Yes, basically the whole rotating assembly was new other than the crank: rods, pistons, pins. I don't know remember what bolts were used. I don't think they were anything special like ARP.

Pat
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 03:59 PM   #102
ScottyB
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155883
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Durham NC
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza 2.5RS
bacon rage

Default

sorry to hear that Pat. but hey, at least you can salvage a number of components from the engine so its not a complete loss.
ScottyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 09:17 AM   #103
Suparata
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 206504
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Skokie,IL USA
Vehicle:
2002 Outback Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
...Yes, basically the whole rotating assembly was new other than the crank: rods, pistons, pins. I don't know remember what bolts were used. I don't think they were anything special like ARP.

Pat
Pat,
Can you elaborate please?
Suparata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 11:31 AM   #104
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on.
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 06:53 PM   #105
sneezerboi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 59267
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kapolei, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Java Black Pearl

Default

Hey Pat, I remember you when you here with us in HIIC. How have you been? I currently have the DOHC heads on a 2006 block in my 1998 2.5RS. This was done by Ryan at Vakamon/R&D. I don't know what the numbers are, but it feels really good compared to my friend's SOHC.

--Josh
sneezerboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 05:29 AM   #106
Suparata
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 206504
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Skokie,IL USA
Vehicle:
2002 Outback Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
... basically the whole rotating assembly was new other than the crank: rods, pistons, pins.
I'm sorry but I just noticed that you re-used the crank and REPLACED the rods,pistons and pins. What kind of connecting rods did you use and which bearings? Did you machine the crank?
Also did you get a chance to disassemble the block to see what failed?
Suparata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:00 PM   #107
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

The rods were from Oliver, obtained thru TWE. I was under the impression when I got them that they were a set Tom had had made and didn't use for some other project. ACL bearings. I don't think any machining was done on the crank, but it may have needed some cleaning up. I'd have to try to find the machine shop receipts to figure it out, it's been too long for me to remember.

Engine is still in the car, so no diagnosis yet.

Pat
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 11:09 PM   #108
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Having made zero progress in the month and half since the engine failed, I elected to take the car back to PIA and have them fix it while I'm out at sea for the next few weeks. The bad engine is still in the car, and I brought them the old JDM shortblock that was in my garage. First preference is to fix the bad shortblock in the car, but if that proves to be too big a job, they'll just use the old JDM shortblock.



One little "fix" they'll be doing is installing an STI dipstick. Because the turbo cars have the cutout in the pan to fit the different exhaust header configuration, the oil level in the pan is higher when using the same amount of oil. So, if you put an STI dipstick in the N/A oil pan, you get an extra quart or so of oil in the sump. The guys at PIA think some of the rod bearing issues are related to basically pumping the pan dry with extended high RPM running; if I had been watching my oil pressure gauge during the dyno pulls I probably would be able to confirm whether that was the case or not. Anyway, running an extra quart would give that much more capacity to hopefully prevent pumping the sump dry. (Of course, I could just keep my stock dipstick and add an extra quart, but it seems a more elegant solution to use the STI dipstick so the FULL mark is where I actually want it to be. )

Pat
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 10:55 PM   #109
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Pat,
What are you running for an oil pump? I've been running the 10mm one on my cars for a while now. I don't know if it makes a difference since I don't have a gauge but figure if it's good enough for a 2.0l WRX making the same power as my NA engine, it's good enough for me.
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2009, 11:07 PM   #110
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

That's what I've got as well. From what I can see, at least from '97-on, the DOHC engines all came with 10mm pumps.

Pat
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 07:07 PM   #111
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
That's what I've got as well. From what I can see, at least from '97-on, the DOHC engines all came with 10mm pumps.

Pat
Definitely not all of them. I've got a longblock from a '98 Forester that's got a 7mm pump on it.

All my SOHC Ej25's have had 9mm pumps stock.
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2009, 11:16 PM   #112
HillbillyLes
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 178340
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Central Missouri
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Speedwagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Hey, Pat...been what, I suppose a year of so since I bought your heads....

RE: the oil pump size, the 98 RS oem engine comes with a 10Mm pump and the one that was in mine when I bought it had a 10MM (used it on the SOHC/DOHC engine I built) but it was a salvage replacement a prior owner had put in so have no idea what it was out of originally.

As a minimum, I'd say the RS engines had 10mm and since i doubt that the salvage engine in the one I had was originally from an RS obviously other models come with the 10Mm as well...about all I can offer on that topic...

BTW, sorry to hear about the bottom end. I traded my RS last spring for an 02 REX wagon and now have at Stg2 +...re: RPM, i don't run it hard except for logging pulls for my remote tuner but fuel cut /redline on it with a stock block/turbo/injectors (98%+ idc) is about 7150.. I don't know what kind of power you were looking at but I'm pushing in the 235 WHP range so I wouldn't think your 10MM pump would be the weak link there....I guess it doesn't really matter, at this point, since will all have to come apart and be checked.

Les
Moberly, MO

HillbillyLes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 06:26 PM   #113
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco, ca
Vehicle:
90BJ Legacy LS ABS
AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built

Default

I have not logged in for a long time and I wanted to say I know how you feel.

A while back I built a 2.5 frankenmotor with a phase 2 block, phase 1 heads, turbo water pump + cooler, 2.2 side exit engine harness and 91 legacy ECU. Long story short it had this strange "instant overheat" issue causing it to damage multiple bearings (ill post a video of it someday lol)

So just this last week I took the short block from a 98rs. The car was running great with only a slight headgasket leak. I had the heads from the above mentioned engine decked and proceeded to reinstall everything. It ran/still runs fine but the engine has a loud rattling noise but only on acceleration when warm. I narrowed it down to cylinder three by removing the injector plug so it leads me to think its some type of rod bearing failure even though it doesn't make the normal rod knock sound.

This was after having cylinder three's front exhaust valve melt THREE times on the 2.2 X_X

The good news I have is that I installed a 4.44 final drive transmission and the car feels freaking awesome!

Good luck man. If you don't give up then neither will I

I am honestly shocked that you are able to run the thinner gasket with those "phase 1" pistons. They protrude above the block and I have experienced first hand when the pistons touch the head when using the thin gaskets. Its not enough to cause damage but it kinda sounds like rod knock.

The gasket type or head type does not directly relate to the block phase. There are factory phase 2 block dohc cars. The small bearing 2.5na rods and the large bearing 2.5 rods are the exact same length from the centerline of the lower bearing to the wrist pin. The block width of the 2.5na phase 1 and phase 2 are the same. The different gasket thickness is meant for either pistons that clear the deck or pistons that are level with the deck.

Now heres the strange thing. I though with my second 2.5 I'd be building a stock 2.5na longblock. It had the "phase 1" dished pistons, dohc heads originally and thick HG. However when switching the plastic plate on the back of the engine with my metal one I noticed it had eight mounting holes! Now either this was a rare RS that got an Outback style phase 2 dohc engine from the factory (I have never heard of this) or the engine overheated so bad in the past that another shortblock was installed.
Either way this ****s me up because I'm not 100% sure on which rod bearings to order. I'd assume that its a phase two crank so I need the standard rod bearing.

I think I said this in another thread but I wanted to mention that a phase 2 2.5 crank has both thrust bearing surfaces. With only a polish to the bearing surface a phase 2 crank could work in a phase 1 block OR you could convert it to use a double thrust setup (i love the idea of overkill)

Last edited by ciper; 11-17-2009 at 06:40 PM.
ciper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 10:06 PM   #114
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post

After scavenging a bolt from the old engine, I was back in business. Put the cams back in, torqued the caps in place, and put the timing belt back on. I then went to torque the two passenger side cam sprocket bolts, and in the process the timing belt skipped a tooth. *sigh* Sooooo, let's try this fracking timing belt install yet again!! I removed the tensioner and compressed it, but as I was bolting it back onto the block the hole where the pin goes to pin it in the compressed position broke, so the tensioner fully extended itself!! What. The. ****!!!!

Thankfully I have another tensioner, so I compressed that one and installed it instead. I'm not exactly sure where that one came from - the original engine that came out in Jan/Feb '07, the '98 RS engine that exploded last spring/summer, or the JDM engine that I bought last fall. Hopefully it's healthy.


Pat
The same happened to me on my 97 Outback, I went to pull the allen wrench I was using to hold it down and it broke the metal just like that! Lucky for me I was ready to pull it.. but I think it's time to replace it anyways.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EJ22 phase 2 heads on phase 1 block WoodsWagon Built Motor Discussion 5 11-07-2011 05:54 PM
NA EJ25 DOHC heads on a EJ205 block unforgiven2144 Built Motor Discussion 8 08-01-2009 06:47 AM
phase 1 heads on phase 2 block...anyone have problems? IllNastyImpreza Built Motor Discussion 5 04-29-2007 07:29 PM
Phase 1 heads on phase 2 block spruitt Subaru Conversions 4 03-18-2004 07:27 PM
Phase I heads on Phase II block? Don Normally Aspirated Powertrain 38 07-16-2001 12:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.