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Old 04-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #1
warpath
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Default Lexus Confirms BMW X1 Rival, Concept Coming to 2013 Tokyo Show, Production Model in 2

Carscoop: http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/lex...l-concept.html



Quote:
Japanese carmakers may have been the ones to kick start the SUV and crossover craze in the mainstream segments, but itís the Germans that applied the recipe in the premium categories, leaving the former to simply follow in their footsteps.
Lexus currently offers three SUVs, the popular RX (pictured above), now in its third generation with both hybrid and regular engine offerings, and the larger GX and LX that are related to the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado and Land Cruiser 200 Series respectively.

By comparison, BMW has four models (X1, X3, X5 and X6), and is already preparing a fifth SUV with the X4 Concept revealed on Thursday, while Audi wants to double its portfolio with sportier versions of all three of its SUVs (Q3, Q5 and Q7) and there are similar plans from Mercedes-Benz as well (new GLA etc.).

Not to be left behind, Lexus has confirmed plans for the debut of a new premium-compact SUV to compete against the BMW X1, Audi Q3 and the upcoming Mercedes-Benz GLA.

A company source told Autonews Europe that Lexus will preview a pre-production concept of the hybrid model based on parent company Toyota's RAV4 compact SUV at this year's Tokyo Motor Show in November, followed by the production version at next year's Geneva Salon in March.

It is believed that the hybrid version of the SUV will utilize the same four-cylinder 2.5-liter gasoline engine mated to an electric motor found in the Lexus IS 300h and other Toyota and Lexus models.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:32 AM   #2
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Great more SUV's.

Sometimes I really hate American car buyers.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #3
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I don't consider tall station wagons like today's unibody, car-based "SUVs" to be SUVs.. they certainly aren't the gas guzzling, unsafe body structure, top-heavy vehicles that we were all bitching about a decade ago.

The RX pictured in the OP is just a lifted Venza/Avalon at heart.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:42 AM   #4
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One of every four BMW's sold in the U.S. is and SUV, err SAV...err crossover...sadly.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #5
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I used to hate them.

Until 2 things happened:

1: badly maintained roads beat my Legacy GT's suspension into submission. Two sets of replacement dampers, and several perished bushings and wheel bearings, before 100K miles.

2: Legacy showed itself not to be friendly to cargo that I had purchased, because the trunk lid portal was too small, and the seats don't fold down.

Outback XT being cancelled didn't help the cause, as now I can't just get an equivalent car with more cargo room, and more ride height, and my wife doesn't want to be subject to the negative connotation she has toward station wagons. I know it is irrational.

So CUVs it is.

And BMW's X4 concept (near production) was just introduced in Shanghai.


I am not a huge fan of modern BMW cars... but if they offer a 3-door version of the X4... I will certainly consider it. (fold down seats, and a liftback hatch are good, and more applicable to me than rear side doors or rear seat headroom for frequent adult rear seat passengers.)


I doubt Lexus will immediately introduce rivals to the X4... but it is no surprise that they are offering the cargo utility, and ride height over broken pavement and high visibility seating position that people seem to like, and purchase accordingly.

People were sold on SUVs 15-20 years ago, on a practical standpoint. More practicality than they even use in some cases (which becomes wasted space and weight sometimes)

Now they still like the practicality aspects that they were sold on previously, in a more civilized, car-based unibody vehicle CUV. It can't really be called a surprise.

And government treats them with an advantageous double-standard... so it is no surprise that manufacturers push them.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I used to hate them.

Until 2 things happened:

1: badly maintained roads
That right there is the straw that I foresee breaking this camel's back living in New Jersey.

I've never owned an SUV because 'racecar' but I fear that I will eventually cave in. There are some nice vehicles on the market to pick from although the Lexus makes me yawn just thinking about it.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I used to hate them.

Until 2 things happened:

1: badly maintained roads beat my Legacy GT's suspension into submission. Two sets of replacement dampers, and several perished bushings and wheel bearings, before 100K miles.

2: Legacy showed itself not to be friendly to cargo that I had purchased, because the trunk lid portal was too small, and the seats don't fold down.

Outback XT being cancelled didn't help the cause, as now I can't just get an equivalent car with more cargo room, and more ride height, and my wife doesn't want to be subject to the negative connotation she has toward station wagons. I know it is irrational.

So CUVs it is.

And BMW's X4 concept (near production) was just introduced in Shanghai.

I am not a huge fan of modern BMW cars... but if they offer a 3-door version of the X4... I will certainly consider it. (fold down seats, and a liftback hatch are good, and more applicable to me than rear side doors or rear seat headroom for frequent adult rear seat passengers.)

I doubt Lexus will immediately introduce rivals to the X4... but it is no surprise that they are offering the cargo utility, and ride height over broken pavement and high visibility seating position that people seem to like, and purchase accordingly.

People were sold on SUVs 15-20 years ago, on a practical standpoint. More practicality than they even use in some cases (which becomes wasted space and weight sometimes)

Now they still like the practicality aspects that they were sold on previously, in a more civilized, car-based unibody vehicle CUV. It can't really be called a surprise.

And government treats them with an advantageous double-standard... so it is no surprise that manufacturers push them.
I agree with your reasoning for "accepting" CUVs, in many metropolitan areas the road conditions and obstacles are bad enough that the term "urban jungle" isn't an entirely crazy description of the driving environment. A raised vehicle with high profile tires and good backup/surround view cameras can be quite nice to have.

But I cannot see ever warming to the X4, X6, or any of one of these coupy CUVs. It just goes one step too far for me. I get that design is important, but to me the size and heft of a car should have a clear purpose other than adding "road presence", namely improved interior space. These coupy CUVs really doesn't have much practicality over a sedan, apart from having a hatch that opens up to a ridiculously short cargo area. The rear seat accommodation also tends to be highly compromised due to the swooping roof line. So apart from being high off the ground, it really doesn't have much of the real benefit of owning a CUV, and that height alone to me is not enough to justify the added weight and raised CoG.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:09 PM   #8
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The thing is... I only need a coupe, in terms of passenger accommodation. Two main people, with occaisional rear jumpseat use.

As long as I can open the back part of the car wider than a few inches, and load some occaisional cargo items onto a load floor with the rear seats folded flat, that is also enough cargo space for me... otherwise I'd rent a pickup truck for a few hours, or something.

I actually do want a Grand Touring Coupe, with AWD capability, and suspension travel.

If I wanted 5-7 passenger seating, and more cargo space, I would go for X3 over X4, or otherwise X5 over X6, and get the full boxy 5-door.

That is why I think BMW X4 and X6 should dispense with the rear tandem doors, and just be versatile all-road liftback coupes, and not even try to be pseudo-sedans.

The only reason I consider XV Crosstrek or Forester, is because there is no availability of a 3-door All-road 3-door coupe comparable to it, or an AWD low-height coupe, either.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:36 PM   #9
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Because the rear doors somehow make it 'less'
The X4 and X6 having rear doors do EVERYTHING you want it to do, but somehow those extra doors and convenience are bad.

hmmmm

What does it feel like to be insane? I mean do you know it, or are you obivious to that fact.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
hmmmm

What does it feel like to be insane? I mean do you know it, or are you (oblivious) to that fact(?)
*Therapist hat on* Hopefully it's the former. Those are the ones who tend to do better.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Because the rear doors somehow make it 'less'
The X4 and X6 having rear doors do EVERYTHING you want it to do, but somehow those extra doors and convenience are bad.

hmmmm

What does it feel like to be insane? I mean do you know it, or are you obivious to that fact.
Stay with me here...

X6, and likely X4, ZDX, and other tapered roof sedans are criticized for not having enough rear head room for their rear passengers.

I don't think they are intended to be daily use for adult-height rear seat passengers. Unused or children are more likely.

Anyone with adult-height rear seat passengers in the rear seats are going to OF COURSE gravitate to higher-roof vehicles... Such as X5, X3, or MDX, or any number of CUVs, SUVs, Minivans, wagons, or boxy profile full-size sedans.

I don't think sleek sedans are intended to fill that role.

If they are not intended to fill the role for regular rear seat passengers, then they MAY AS WELL BE COUPES, and keep the sleek roofline.

Coupes aren't criticized as much for rear headroom, or lack of cargo room, because that is a known and expected implication of being a coupe.

Coupes are usually sleeker looking, because they cater to buyers who know they don't need the additional passenger practicality. (like me)

Coupes have longer doors, that are easier to get in and out of without scraping against the b-pillar, (but can become an issue in close quarters with small opening angles, admittedly. Careful parking can help)

Coupes have lower, streamlined roofs, usually with the peak of the roof centered over the front passenger headroom.

Unless a sedan has a flat roof, the peak is usually over the B-pillar, and the peak is higher so that the arch line still provides sufficient front and rear headroom at points that are not at the peak of the roof... or they look mis-shapen like Panamera.

Coupes also tend to have frameless window glass in the doors, which is a nice and sporty touch. Boxier vehicles tend to have framed, and vertically taller windows, due to the typically significantly higher roof.

An Allroad-style GT Coupe with AWD would have just as much driving versatility, and less weight than a boxy-5-door CUV, and a coupe would not be as closely redundant as a boxy 5 door compared to a sleek-roof 5-door. The increased separation would ease the criticism that X6 and X5 are redundant. Or any related pair of CUV boxy 5-door and 3-door AWD coupe

Plus, CAFE is boiler-plate enough to call any vehicle with increased ride height as a light truck. An allroad coupe is less strict on regulations than a low-height coupe, AWD or not.

Fewer doors, and fewer structural door frames, fewer body pillars, and a lower, shorter length roof, all serve to lower overall weight, parts counts, and center of gravity. Power being equal, lighter is faster, and tends to be able to handle better with less inertial resistance to changing direction, and look better doing it.

So many people complain about CUVs and SUVs for being wasteful. Why would those same people complain about a lighter weight (and thus more energy efficient), less material intensive, less space-wasting version?

Why should I, with very seldom need for more than a single additional passenger, have to buy a huge CUV, with increasing occurrences of having 7 seats built in, to have AWD capabilities, some ground clearance, and some power under the hood?

Can you name a decently powerful, sporty, compact CUV that isn't bigger than 2 adults need,... just to widen the scope... with 0, 1, or 2 children who can fit in the back seats of a coupe, if necessary?

I grew up riding in the back seats of 2+2 coupes. My family didn't get a van or SUV until I was already old enough to drive myself, anyway.

Not everybody needs a land yacht, but may still want AWD, suspension travel, and powerful performance.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:24 PM   #12
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Okay, I read every word, but take the X4 and take away the 2 back doors. Now try to put a child seat in that car.

Aint gonna happen. While leaving the 4 doors on it allows for EASY access to loading, kids or other things FAR Easier, does not take away from any design aspect what so ever, and makes the car easier to live with on a daily basis.

Coupes HUGE long doors are the ultimate pain the the arse. You cannot even open those doors in a two car garage.


I will turn this back around on you if you will...
Why should BMW make YOU a vehicle that is so narrowly focused and ultimately so custom taylored that you are the only person on earth who would buy one.

IN buying an X4 you are already NOT getting a car that handles well, It does NOT accelerate well, stops well. In summary you are NOT getting a sports car other than looks alone. Why remove 2 doors and further limit the already miniscule market for such a fashion show car. It is not a sports car. It already has compromised utility with the sloping roof, now you want to futher reduce its practicality by taking two doors off and making it HARDER and less user freindly for the sakes of saving 8 lbs.

You are still the same old Hip. Completely impossible to please and will always be left standing outside in the rain complaining.. WHAT ABOUT ME!!!!!
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #13
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I don't think I could ever drive a SUV, CUV, or any other UV.

That being said, I really gravitated towards the X1 at the car show, I actually really like it.

I suppose that this is the first step in the process, but I still can't see myself driving one of them.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:42 PM   #14
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I have an SVX, and open those long doors in my two car garage. Just fine.

Have you driven an X4 to make all those claims?

Did I ever claim a 2-door X4 would be a sports car? Did I ever use those words? NO, I did not. I called such a thing a grand touring allroad-style AWD coupe.

Are sports cars the only cars ever made with two doors and as much performance as a street car can use? No.

If someone has an issue with child seats... they have EVERY OTHER VEHICLE ON THE MARKET WITH TANDEM DOORS TO CHOOSE FROM, so what.

Maybe it doesn't handle like a race car... but if the roads were like race tracks, my Legacy's suspension wouldn't be beaten to death.

People are already complaining that BMW is offering too many models for too many different niches.

I simply point out the fact that moving X6 a little further from redundancy with X5, or X4 a bit further from X3, or any other similar pairing, would not hurt anything...

So don't complain about companies building redundant products, and then criticize people who call for more product variation. That would be hypocritical.

Heaven forbid a company build a car for someone other than you...

Maybe I should claim that you think BMW should never build another coupe whatsoever... because you say that it might as well have 4 doors.

M4 coupe NIX'D. Make due with M3 4-door. likewise for any 4-series coupe vs. 3-series sedan.
M6 coupe NIX'D. Make due with M5 4-door, or Gran Coupe. Or X6M, or 5-series GT, or X5M. Same for any 6-series coupe.

Mustang... NIX'D. Make Due with Taurus or Fusion.

Camaro and Corvette NIX'D. Make due with Chevy SS sedan. You can't put a child seat in a Corvette, children are at risk in the front seat.

Challenger GONE, make due with Charger, with no 6MT... You don't need it.

FT86 GONE. Make due with Lexus IS250/Toyota Altezza RWD 6-speed, and go back to another decade with no Subaru Coupes.

I'll bet that just killing every coupe on the market would be just FINE with you. Because you don't need it, so nobody else should want it.

How's that mischaracterization? You like that?

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-05-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:51 PM   #15
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Once you throw children into the equation then it's all over. I mean, you shouldn't be throwing kids anyways, but just know that things get messy once you do.

Hip, how about a Forester XT 6MT Coupe? Did I just blow your mind?!
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #16
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Once you throw children into the equation then it's all over. I mean, you shouldn't be throwing kids anyways, but just know that things get messy once you do.

Hip, how about a Forester XT 6MT Coupe? Did I just blow your mind?!
I've already suggested a WRX or STI powered, 6MT XV Crosstrek 3-door, which is a more logical choice to leave the rear side doors off of, and taper the roof down.

BTW... child does not automatically mean child seat. Some children are old enough not to need an insanely over-protective child seat contraption, and still would fit under a lower roof, in a smaller rear seat of a 2+2 body style.

I grew up not knowing of anyone, I don't even remember hearing of anyone who was a kid like me, dying in a car accident, for lack of a padded cell... I mean child seat. My brother an I sat in the back seat with seat belts on as soon as we were capable of climbing back there, and buckling the latch. And the safety seat that I was then too young to remember, actually fit inside normal cars, that used to be physically smaller than they are today. My parents had one or two 2+2 mid-sized coupes, and a pickup truck a bit later, until I was 15 years old. I got a driver's permit at 14, and started driving one of those cars myself before my parents bought a minivan and promptly left most of the seats out of it for cargo space, in leu of the pickup that was traded for it.

My brother and I, and everyone else we knew of, survived childhood to become adults, without being semi-permanently encased in plastic.

And people do sometimes still die in car accidents, depsite child safety seats, and 143 airbags, and everything else that gets built into cars... because PHYSICS. two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Sometimes it can be a tragedy, despite how much preparation and precaution.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-05-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I have an SVX, and open those long doors in my two car garage. Just fine.

Have you driven an X4 to make all those claims?

Did I ever claim a 2-door X4 would be a sports car? Did I ever use those words? NO, I did not. I called such a thing a grand touring allroad-style AWD coupe.

Are sports cars the only cars ever made with two doors and as much performance as a street car can use? No.

If someone has an issue with child seats... they have EVERY OTHER VEHICLE ON THE MARKET WITH TANDEM DOORS TO CHOOSE FROM, so what.

Maybe it doesn't handle like a race car... but if the roads were like race tracks, my Legacy's suspension wouldn't be beaten to death.

People are already complaining that BMW is offering too many models for too many different niches.

I simply point out the fact that moving X6 a little further from redundancy with X5, or X4 a bit further from X3, or any other similar pairing, would not hurt anything...

So don't complain about companies building redundant products, and then criticize people who call for more product variation. That would be hypocritical.

Heaven forbid a company build a car for someone other than you...

Maybe I should claim that you think BMW should never build another coupe whatsoever... because you say that it might as well have 4 doors.

M4 coupe NIX'D. Make due with M3 4-door. likewise for any 4-series coupe vs. 3-series sedan.
M6 coupe NIX'D. Make due with M5 4-door, or Gran Coupe. Or X6M, or 5-series GT, or X5M. Same for any 6-series coupe.

Mustang... NIX'D. Make Due with Taurus or Fusion.

Camaro and Corvette NIX'D. Make due with Chevy SS sedan. You can't put a child seat in a Corvette, children are at risk in the front seat.

Challenger GONE, make due with Charger, with no 6MT... You don't need it.

FT86 GONE. Make due with Lexus IS250/Toyota Altezza RWD 6-speed, and go back to another decade with no Subaru Coupes.

I'll bet that just killing every coupe on the market would be just FINE with you. Because you don't need it, so nobody else should want it.

How's that mischaracterization? You like that?

Um, yeah, you are waaay off the mark, but keep going I like it when you type when you are mad. Also just courious, do you double space every phrase on purpose, or is that a setting you have?

Your obsession with a coupe is borderline OCD. When a sedan performs the same in every possible way, but gives you more room, easy access to that room, and cheaper insurance. You are not calling for product diversity. You are asking them to build a car NOBODY will freaking buy but you. But I guess you are okay with that.

You want a MT, grand touring, AWD coupe, that has to have ground clearance and still ride like a sporty car.

Hip I wish you luck man. You are going to be unhappy for the vast majority of your life if you keep setting yourself up for failure like this. Your lack of grasp of automotive economics has long amused me. Any time you start a sentence with, "WHY Can't they...." just stop.

Look go buy a rally fighter...AWD ground clearance, Big HP, two doors, blah blah blah.

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:45 PM   #18
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Once you throw children into the equation then it's all over. I mean, you shouldn't be throwing kids anyways, but just know that things get messy once you do.

Hip, how about a Forester XT 6MT Coupe? Did I just blow your mind?!
This is where the woodchipper comes in handy.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I've already suggested a WRX or STI powered, 6MT XV Crosstrek 3-door, which is a more logical choice to leave the rear side doors off of, and taper the roof down.

BTW... child does not automatically mean child seat. Some children are old enough not to need an insanely over-protective child seat contraption, and still would fit under a lower roof, in a smaller rear seat of a 2+2 body style.

I grew up not knowing of anyone, I don't even remember hearing of anyone who was a kid like me, dying in a car accident, for lack of a padded cell... I mean child seat. My brother an I sat in the back seat with seat belts on as soon as we were capable of climbing back there, and buckling the latch. And the safety seat that I was then too young to remember, actually fit inside normal cars, that used to be physically smaller than they are today. My parents had one or two 2+2 mid-sized coupes, and a pickup truck a bit later, until I was 15 years old. I got a driver's permit at 14, and started driving one of those cars myself before my parents bought a minivan and promptly left most of the seats out of it for cargo space, in leu of the pickup that was traded for it.

My brother and I, and everyone else we knew of, survived childhood to become adults, without being semi-permanently encased in plastic.

And people do sometimes still die in car accidents, despite child safety seats, and 143 airbags, and everything else that gets built into cars... because PHYSICS. two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Sometimes it can be a tragedy, despite how much preparation and precaution.
I meant to say, "These days..." Today's standards make it so that when most people think, "My children" they have to pass on anything with two doors until the kids are older.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Um, yeah, you are waaay off the mark, but keep going I like it when you type when you are mad. Also just courious, do you double space every phrase on purpose, or is that a setting you have?

Your obsession with a coupe is borderline OCD. When a sedan performs the same in every possible way, but gives you more room, easy access to that room, and cheaper insurance. You are not calling for product diversity. You are asking them to build a car NOBODY will freaking buy but you. But I guess you are okay with that.

You want a MT, grand touring, AWD coupe, that has to have ground clearance and still ride like a sporty car.

Hip I wish you luck man. You are going to be unhappy for the vast majority of your life if you keep setting yourself up for failure like this. Your lack of grasp of automotive economics has long amused me. Any time you start a sentence with, "WHY Can't they...." just stop.

Look go buy a rally fighter...AWD ground clearance, Big HP, two doors, blah blah blah.
Hey. The dude just believe that everything in coupe form is beautiful. He's right. Can't a guy dream?

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This is where the woodchipper comes in handy.
This ain't Fargo, son.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:06 PM   #20
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That being said, I really gravitated towards the X1 at the car show, I actually really like it.

I suppose that this is the first step in the process, but I still can't see myself driving one of them.
Well, that's just a half raised wagon. It's quite a bit shorter (height-wise) and lighter than "real" CUVs. No wonder you like it over other CUVs.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #21
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I actually don't think Hip is off the mark here. These coupy CUVs are utterly pointless in any rational standard anyway. So why not make it maximally irrational by removing the rear doors? After all, isn't the point about coupes based on sedans that the lack of practicality represents your status as a fun loving single person, open for business?

I don't mean to put down every sedan based coupes, as some do offer tangible benefits in weight saving and chassis rigidity, but you'd be surprised to know how few actually do. For example, the A5 isn't lighter than the A4, and the 3er coupe isn't lighter than the 3er sedan. My understanding is that one big opening isn't necessarily more rigid than having two smaller openings. So really, the point of most coupes are to reduce practicality to make it look sexier, and also to advertise the fact that the owner is someone who prefers to drive something sexy rather than something practical.

As for Hip sounding like a mad man as usual, I don't think it's because he wants something that isn't going to be very popular. I also don't think it's because he repeats that a lot. I think it's because he makes it sound like it's the most ridiculous thing in the world that the car companies are not making what he wants, as if that's a colossal business oversight. That's where he starts to sound crazy.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:52 PM   #22
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Look go buy a rally fighter...AWD ground clearance, Big HP, two doors, blah blah blah.

If RallyFighter were AWD, you might have a point.

But it is RWD, custom-built out of parts from many other cars, not covered by any warrantee, and too much off-roader for too much money. It is a race truck covered by a coupe body.

It is cool as hell, but it isn't exactly a prime candidate for daily driver for most people. If I wanted something like that, I would get a Raptor with a fastback-like bed cap, and pay barely more than half of Rally Fighter's price, and it is in stock locally at a dealer that can support it, with a warranty.

If MINI can sell Paceman, and Land Rover can sell Evoque 3-door, then there is demand in a new market segment for even more options, with more performance than either of those two transverse-engine Turbo I4s have.

I wish it would come from Subaru... but if it comes from Audi, or BMW, or some other brand... I'll consider it.

Otherwise, I'll likely end up with something that I can make due with.

I am sure you love the prospect of going through life, and approaching your hobby and personal interest topic with the attitude that you can "make due," and not really ever get what you'd really like to have and use. I am sure that is just an endless font of satisfaction for you.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:06 PM   #23
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So your hobby is whining on the internet?

I do not make due, I make what I want happen, happen. I wanted a pure driving car that I
could restore, I bought my Z and started working on it. I did not sit on the internet boards whining incessantly about why they do not make a small RWD coupe that weighs less than 2300 lbs for less than 12000 dollars. Oh and make it without AC and without power steering because there is a hidden market for it.



If you want a raised up hatch coupe with AWD make it. TAke your SVX and get out your tools and get to work. You may start trend and become famous for starting a cool new trend.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:26 PM   #24
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Back on topic, this should be the introduction of the turbo 4 in Lexus' lineup. They have trademarked NX200T. Hopefully that replaces the dreadful 2.5L V6 in the IS250.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:34 PM   #25
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amen to that. The IS250 really needs a transplant
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