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Old 03-11-2013, 11:15 PM   #1201
Mechie3
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Why so? For the most part, you'd remove the rear body work, unbolt it, and lift it out.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #1202
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So, has anyone on here placed an order for a kit? Or anyone seriously decided to purchase one when they are available?

I'm curious to see how popular these really are going to be within the Subaru community.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:02 PM   #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDRex View Post
So, has anyone on here placed an order for a kit? Or anyone seriously decided to purchase one when they are available?

I'm curious to see how popular these really are going to be within the Subaru community.
The poster above you, for one.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:34 PM   #1204
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I know I've had built engine requests from a few guys that have ordered kits. The requests vary from spec race engine to 'OMG I'm going to try to kill myself' hahaha

-Micah
3MI Racing
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:22 AM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDRex View Post
So, has anyone on here placed an order for a kit? Or anyone seriously decided to purchase one when they are available?

I'm curious to see how popular these really are going to be within the Subaru community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
The poster above you, for one.
Yup.

Lady ran a red, totaled my car, bought it back, using the rest of the insurance money to buy the kit and any other extras it needs.

I think there's 120 deposits placed. 2 other guys on here have engine build threads for their 818's.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:53 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I know I've had built engine requests from a few guys that have ordered kits. The requests vary from spec race engine to 'OMG I'm going to try to kill myself' hahaha

-Micah
3MI Racing
heh, people talking 600+ WHP in a rear engine 850kg car are freaking scary.

These things will be scary fast with a basic Stage 2 STi engine in them... like power to weight equivalent to 500+ HP STis. E85 and 60 lb/min turbos? Definite kill myself territory.

The amount of torque a built 2.5L produces down low is also going to be quite a handful for a RWD car this light, but I suppose that will make the 3.7 final drive 5MTs that are so bad for motorsports in a WRX a good match for the 818.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:27 AM   #1207
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Needs a hardtop
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #1208
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Needs a hardtop
Coupe is coming.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:25 PM   #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian

heh, people talking 600+ WHP in a rear engine 850kg car are freaking scary.

These things will be scary fast with a basic Stage 2 STi engine in them... like power to weight equivalent to 500+ HP STis. E85 and 60 lb/min turbos? Definite kill myself territory.

The amount of torque a built 2.5L produces down low is also going to be quite a handful for a RWD car this light, but I suppose that will make the 3.7 final drive 5MTs that are so bad for motorsports in a WRX a good match for the 818.
They're looking at my destroked high revving shortblocks, which I think will be much more driveable for these cars.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #1210
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There are quite a few guys on the ffr forum who talk about 400 whp. I think most of them are all talk and most of them have also never driven a lightweight car from what i can tell.

Im staying stock turbo for now. Last made 243whp and 351wtq in an awd setup.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:37 PM   #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
They're looking at my destroked high revving shortblocks, which I think will be much more driveable for these cars.
What do you think will be possible with a 257 with dual AVCS heads in NA configuration, destroked, long rod and high CR?
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:11 AM   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
There are quite a few guys on the ffr forum who talk about 400 whp. I think most of them are all talk and most of them have also never driven a lightweight car from what i can tell.

Im staying stock turbo for now. Last made 243whp and 351wtq in an awd setup.
I know that of the requests, two are quite serious. One is spec engine for auto-x and the other is a power nut (meant in a good way), that has had a myriad of cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
What do you think will be possible with a 257 with dual AVCS heads in NA configuration, destroked, long rod and high CR?
If you want to be conservative and compare to stock EJ204 (NA davcs heads), we can assume 93 Nm of torque on the engine and carry out basic BMEP calculations and lift MPS to 25 m/s (race engine limits), you’ll be in the ballpark of 260 bhp as a 2.0L. If I choose the same low torque value but bump to 2.43L you have 226 Nm (167 lb-ft) and 317 bhp (237 kW).

If you choose to bump the nominal torque value to something more like that of a race engine (120-140 Nm/L) things change drastically but note that this IS running to a max Mean Piston Speed of 25 m/s and would require a fully engineered and developed package to get these kinds of efficiencis…so I’ll use 120 Nm/L to play it more realistic, after all, the EJ ports suck and we have less than ideal layout conditions for manifold design.

You’re looking at a max engine speed of 10,000 RPM with 305 kW (409 bhp) and 292 Nm (215 lb/ft)....so unless you REALLY want to spend the coin of building an NA engine for this power, go with a VF39 and EJ205 ...coming from an engine builder

Although I still think a conservative 9k RPM redline on a 2.34 destroked engine and a low boost (1 atm) .63 AR turbine 60 lb/min'ish turbo (50mm EWG) would be a blast. Net about a 400whp with a broad tq curve and keep great transient response. Of course you could dial it back or turn the wick up depending on your pucker factor

-Micah

Last edited by 3MI Racing; 03-21-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:14 AM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
I know that of the requests, two are quite serious. One is spec engine for auto-x and the other is a power nut (meant in a good way), that has had a myriad of cars.
That is why I said most.

The number of people that start new threads of "why can't we use STI parts" "where's the coupe?" and "I need 600hp" is a bit tiring after awhile.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #1214
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I want to build one and use a SOHC RS engine. I think this would be plenty for a great daily driver/ autocross car. Not to mention a lot easier on components.

jake
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:41 PM   #1215
EtoS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
I know that of the requests, two are quite serious. One is spec engine for auto-x and the other is a power nut (meant in a good way), that has had a myriad of cars.




If you want to be conservative and compare to stock EJ204 (NA davcs heads), we can assume 93 Nm of torque on the engine and carry out basic BMEP calculations and lift MPS to 25 m/s (race engine limits), you’ll be in the ballpark of 260 bhp as a 2.0L. If I choose the same low torque value but bump to 2.43L you have 226 Nm (167 lb-ft) and 317 bhp (237 kW).

If you choose to bump the nominal torque value to something more like that of a race engine (120-140 Nm/L) things change drastically but note that this IS running to a max Mean Piston Speed of 25 m/s and would require a fully engineered and developed package to get these kinds of efficiencis…so I’ll use 120 Nm/L to play it more realistic, after all, the EJ ports suck and we have less than ideal layout conditions for manifold design.

You’re looking at a max engine speed of 10,000 RPM with 305 kW (409 bhp) and 292 Nm (215 lb/ft)....so unless you REALLY want to spend the coin of building an NA engine for this power, go with a VF39 and EJ205 ...coming from an engine builder

Although I still think a conservative 9k RPM redline on a 2.34 destroked engine and a low boost (1 atm) .63 AR turbine 60 lb/min'ish turbo (50mm EWG) would be a blast. Net about a 400whp with a broad tq curve and keep great transient response. Of course you could dial it back or turn the wick up depending on your pucker factor

-Micah
Well the thing is I already have a 257 short block and 2008 STi heads. I want N/A and I don't need a ton of power, this is ofcourse an 1800 pound car. When I spoke to Dom about making an N/A engine he told me the best it'll do is ~160 to the wheels. I would be happy with about 200WHP though 160 isn't bad either. Wanted to know your take on this- is 160 the best it's gonna do or is 200WHP doable?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #1216
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can the BRZ spin to 200whp? That's going to be your best bet for looking at mods to make n/a power.

otherwise grab an ej207 oil pump and keep upping the revs on whichever motor you choose and see where the valvetrain becomes limited.
light crank
light flywheel
electric power steering
port intake manifold & throttle body
header
tune

you could always add an n2o 50 shot
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #1217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
What do you think will be possible with a 257 with dual AVCS heads in NA configuration, destroked, long rod and high CR?
Ziptie Rallys old De-turboed with 11:1 comp piston STI made 136whp/136tq with the turbo cams in place.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1730647
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:40 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
can the BRZ spin to 200whp? That's going to be your best bet for looking at mods to make n/a power.

otherwise grab an ej207 oil pump and keep upping the revs on whichever motor you choose and see where the valvetrain becomes limited.
light crank
light flywheel
electric power steering
port intake manifold & throttle body
header
tune

you could always add an n2o 50 shot
Thus far the only numbers in that region have been on E85. On pump there hasn't been a TRUE 200whp claim.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:41 PM   #1219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
Well the thing is I already have a 257 short block and 2008 STi heads. I want N/A and I don't need a ton of power, this is ofcourse an 1800 pound car. When I spoke to Dom about making an N/A engine he told me the best it'll do is ~160 to the wheels. I would be happy with about 200WHP though 160 isn't bad either. Wanted to know your take on this- is 160 the best it's gonna do or is 200WHP doable?
I'm not going to make any claims or say what it can make without some real engineering time or data to back up a claim. I think it would be a fun project for sure though!

I know guys that had mild Cobb cams in their otherwise stock engine 2.5RS, with lightened pulleys, lightened flywheels, full exhaust and intake and were making stock WRX (EJ205) numbers on the same dyno. So I'd say 160whp area is doable on a mostly stock EJ251.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
can the BRZ spin to 200whp? That's going to be your best bet for looking at mods to make n/a power.
That would be a fun one and an engine I REALLY want to build up NA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
Ziptie Rallys old De-turboed with 11:1 comp piston STI made 136whp/136tq with the turbo cams in place.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1730647
Note crappy stock STi cams (which have a myriad of things that would be changed for NA use), probably has 440+gram pistons in it to reach that CR with B25 chambers and STi rods, and still uses the stock manifolds too.
That engine was just a temp set up while they acquired licensing as running NA is mandatory in that series. I have several guys ask me about similar builds.
There is a LOT left in that engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
Thus far the only numbers in that region have been on E85. On pump there hasn't been a TRUE 200whp claim.
Correct and everyone has also been doing bolt-ons. No one has done a true NA build, touched the heads, valvetrain, cams, etc...those are all bolt on cars and doing quite well for being just that.

My bigger concern in going FA20 is the lack of standalones and/or merging of harnesses with the ability to retain reflashing...be careful what you trim on a CANbus system (or even ROM).
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:00 PM   #1220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
can the BRZ spin to 200whp? That's going to be your best bet for looking at mods to make n/a power.
Can the BRZ engine mount up to the WRX 5 speed? Otherwise I can't see how this would work.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:17 PM   #1221
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Can the BRZ engine mount up to the WRX 5 speed? Otherwise I can't see how this would work.
Bolt on, no. I'm sure if someone wanted to chop off the bell housing and make their own to fit a BRZ engine it's doable.

Now I'm jumping between an EZ30R and a strung up 2.34l. I know there will be people fitting an EZ engine to an 818 so I can see what problems they face and figure it out then. I don't see myself getting an 818 for another 2 years anyway so that's plenty of time for people to experiment as well as for FFR to get a coupe made.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:18 PM   #1222
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^ yeah, i'm in the same boat. waiting for the coupe to be made. i'm not sold on the convertible.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:15 PM   #1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDRex View Post
So, has anyone on here placed an order for a kit? Or anyone seriously decided to purchase one when they are available?

I'm curious to see how popular these really are going to be within the Subaru community.
im on the order list, not sure what im gonna do for the motor yet i bought a crashed but running 06 wrx for 3500 ended up having to rebuild the heads anyway tossing the idea around of a destroked motor or running an ej22t my kit isnt scheduled until january so i got some time to think it over gonna be a blast though!
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:05 PM   #1224
mhoward1
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Official. Production starts in June.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:04 PM   #1225
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Damn those things are ugly as sin, eek
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