Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday September 17, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2013, 04:27 PM   #1
warpath
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84622
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: -=OT B-Lister=-
Vehicle:
2010 EVO X GSR
1992 MKIII Supra

Default Is Porsche About To Start Making A Turbo Four Cylinder?

Jalopnik: http://jalopnik.com/is-porsche-about...nder-471299928



Quote:
Porsche hasn't had a four cylinder engine in ages. Is that all about about to change?

The Porsche nuts over at Flat-6 News have reason to believe that the boxer sixes in the Boxster and Cayman are on the way out, to be replaced with a four-cylinder version of the 3.8 liter DFI flat-six in the 911.

Supposedly the little four banger will be 2.5 liters, turbocharged, and crank out around 350 horsepower and 360 pound-feet of torque. That means it would make more power than the engines in the Cayman S and Boxster S. That's a good thing.

Flat-6 News also says that a naturally aspirated version of the engine will be in a sub-Boxster performance car.

As always, take these rumors with numerous grains of salt.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
warpath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 04:41 PM   #2
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

That would be a mistake, I think.

Higher power, at what cost? linear engine response? Reliability? Heat soak?

An atmospheric H6 engine is a sublime, smooth machine.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #3
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
That would be a mistake, I think.
Maybe lighter weight? Smaller footprint?
53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #4
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

More MPGeebus's
SCRAPPYDO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #5
blubaru703
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71380
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: International
Default

They need to make a flat 8.

Funk the hippies
blubaru703 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 06:46 PM   #6
torquemada
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

there are rumours about the flat 4 turbo since 2010
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #7
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blubaru703 View Post
They need to make a flat 8.

Funk the hippies
There is rumor that the 960 (or 961, I see both numbers associated with Porsche's theoretical F458 killer) will get a flat-8. With four turbos.



If it does, and looks like anything between that rendering, and the 918RSR concept... Audi R8 and McLaren MP4-12C will both fall a position on my list of favorite cars.

I can only imagine a direct-injected up-flow* flat 8 with four twin-scroll, variable vane turbochargers with custom turbine chamber castings, bolted straight to the exhaust ports on the heads, and feeding a large 4-in-2-out intercooler assembly, and back into the under-slung intake runners, one on each side.

People are used to seeing twin scroll turbos with each chamber for a pair of exhaust ports... why not a turbo for a pair of adjacent cylinders, with one 'scroll' chamber per cylinder, with a minimum distance from exhaust valve to turbine... Especially if the adjacent pistons have a firing order directly out of phase with each other, and an even interval between pulses back and forth.

If it were to get a valvematic-like valve lift control system, in addition to the variocam dual cam timing adjustments... theoretically, the engine could be throttle-less, adjusting engine speed with valve timing and lift alone. One less impediment in the intake tract.

(*-dry intake manifold tubes on the bottom side, exhaust exiting upward to the top side of the engine)

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-08-2013 at 07:02 PM.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
More MPGeebus's
It always strikes me that in order to get higher miles per gallon, they try to employ turbochargers, which by definition, pressurize the engine, requiring and allowing more fuel to be burned.

They arrange mpg tests to maximize low-load driving cycles, (usually when turbos are not spooled) to make the numbers look good, then when people normally drive, and actually USE the throttle, observed fuel economy isn't what the 'official' ratings promised.

Direct injection helps to not require pig-rich mixtures, like EJ Subaru turbos use, to avoid detonation, and also allow the use of higher static compression ratios, which help an engine run more like a good atmospheric engine when the turbo isn't pressurizing the intake above ambient air pressure, but it isn't flouting the laws of chemistry or thermodynamics. Energy out requires that energy to be put in first, which is stored in the fuel, not in the air.

As much as I like the rush of turbos, there is still something sublime about a well tuned, responsive, atmospheric engine, and Porsche builds some beauties.

C'mon... 991 GT3-RS is rumored to make ~450-460-475 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8-4 liters, on an M97-derived block, not the previous metzger block, which had it's sunset with the 997 GT3-RS 4.0 this last year.

The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 07:43 PM   #9
Derbagger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32113
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trollhatten, Japan
Vehicle:
05 Saabaru
Satin Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
It always strikes me that in order to get higher miles per gallon, they try to employ turbochargers, which by definition, pressurize the engine, requiring and allowing more fuel to be burned.

They arrange mpg tests to maximize low-load driving cycles, (usually when turbos are not spooled) to make the numbers look good, then when people normally drive, and actually USE the throttle, observed fuel economy isn't what the 'official' ratings promised.

Direct injection helps to not require pig-rich mixtures, like EJ Subaru turbos use, to avoid detonation, and also allow the use of higher static compression ratios, which help an engine run more like a good atmospheric engine when the turbo isn't pressurizing the intake above ambient air pressure, but it isn't flouting the laws of chemistry or thermodynamics. Energy out requires that energy to be put in first, which is stored in the fuel, not in the air.

As much as I like the rush of turbos, there is still something sublime about a well tuned, responsive, atmospheric engine, and Porsche builds some beauties.

C'mon... 991 GT3-RS is rumored to make ~450-460-475 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8-4 liters, on an M97-derived block, not the previous metzger block, which had it's sunset with the 997 GT3-RS 4.0 this last year.

The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
You are right, as the direct injection allows a more efficient off-boost compression ratio, but it's more to hit an EPA number. It an everyday car, I actually like that. The idea that I could putter on my commute, then blast around when I want to (saving gas when I need to drive and burn it all who cares when it's for pleasure). But for a Porsche a N/A motor is more enjoyable.

The two things I want to point out are, that when a motor is tuned for high revs, it's often lower on torque, causing you to need to rev it to make useful power(the same problem you get with off boost power). and the higher revs bring greater friction, reducing efficiency. Now, I agree that sporty cars could be better off with that setup, but the current one-size-fits-all EPA lends itself to the small motor/turbo programs so many use today.
Derbagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #10
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The far side of 450 naturally aspirated horsepower out of 3.8 liters... that is amazing stuff.
Peace bro..

I love a well tuned NA motor more than anything else as well. Turbos have their place for sure, but a powerful NA motor is a thing of beauty.
SCRAPPYDO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #11
Hondaslayer
Purified Dick
Moderator
 
Member#: 4562
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Auburn, WA
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy LSi
1998 Forester, lifted.

Default

So everybody wants to bitch and moan about a turbo flat four and completely miss the mention of a sub Boxster sports car?

That is the real news here people. Sub Boxster means what? 45k give or take? A return of the 944 perhaps?
Hondaslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 11:41 PM   #12
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
return of the 944 perhaps?
Do want. The 944 was one of the most awesome cars I've owned. It had 0 body roll and felt considerably lighter and more responsive than even my s. The power BLEW nuts, but I doubt porsche would do that again. I never had interest in 80's turbo cars. Too scared of reliability.
WRXHillClimb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 02:23 AM   #13
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

they did mention the return of the 914 a few years back. maybe that's what they're talking about.
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 08:03 AM   #14
torquemada
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

illusion. Porsche said clearly that there is no room for a "cheaper" car in their portfolio.

Boxster and Cayman remain as the cheapest entrance into the Porsche world.
torquemada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:18 AM   #15
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Do want. The 944 was one of the most awesome cars I've owned. It had 0 body roll and felt considerably lighter and more responsive than even my s. The power BLEW nuts, but I doubt porsche would do that again. I never had interest in 80's turbo cars. Too scared of reliability.
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
SoapBox is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #16
spaceywilly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174268
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Providence
Vehicle:
2002 WRX

Default

Quote:
We’ve known since September of 2011 that Porsche was working on a four-cylinder boxer engine
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...e-works-report

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2439243
spaceywilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #17
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
quoted for trooooof
SCRAPPYDO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #18
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86, Meth, 272s, Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
quoted for trooooof
^^+1
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #19
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
but one has Heritage!!!
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:08 AM   #20
OrbitalEllipses
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 178811
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MoCo
Vehicle:
2013 WRB BRZ
:banana:

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
but one has Heritage!!!
Fixt.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #21
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
Correction to the heritage comment:

One was $2600 so I didn't feel bad stripping the **** out of it to get it under 2000lbs.
One didn't have power anything or tons of safety crap to begin with.
One was from the 80's and still has similar metrics to a car made 30 years later (minus 40 hp, but the 944S was closer).
One had stock awesome widebody.

I fault the BRZ for being not much improved over a 30 year old car that is priced basically at scrap material rates. New, warranty, inflation, blah blah. I never would have bought a 944 new back in the day either... I just got lucky it didn't hold it's value like any other porsche. It's all about the performance per $.
WRXHillClimb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
mhoward1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9481
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: FFR Challenge #43
Vehicle:
2011 Carrera 4s
2009 BMW M5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
Fixt.
thanks, I knew it was missing something
mhoward1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #23
lark6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2715
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: where GW crossed the Delaware
Vehicle:
70 911T

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Amazing that you could like 944 despite it's power/weight, yet hate the BRZ for teh very same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
quoted for trooooof
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2381923
lark6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #24
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

Will they call it a BRZ STI ?
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #25
OrbitalEllipses
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 178811
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MoCo
Vehicle:
2013 WRB BRZ
:banana:

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Will they call it a BRZ STI ?
As long as it looks like a Cayman S I'll buy it!
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.