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Old 04-06-2013, 10:14 AM   #2601
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Its back....


Just looks like a regular ej! It always surprises me how boring the block looks on these cars, even with mine I have to remember whats in it haha. Glad to hear its been giving you less trouble of late
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:15 AM   #2602
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If he using the element catch can then yea he is.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:25 AM   #2603
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Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Its back....

You've been through a lot with this build. I hope the next thing you take out of your car is a go pro to upload the video for us to watch . I wish you the best of luck getting this beast back on the road.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:11 AM   #2604
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Thanks!
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #2605
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I have family staying at my house this weekend so I wont be able to get much done BUT, I did manage to get the motor nearly 100% assembled. I will work on the car sporadically (in 20-30min shifts) this week and with a little luck, finish by weekend end. I really want to be driving the car VERY soon as Phil wants 1000 miles on the motor before we finish tuning it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #2606
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So, what to play
with next ?

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Still watching and waiting.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:35 AM   #2607
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Originally Posted by bboylocob View Post
If he using the element catch can then yea he is.
that's not necessarily true. I'm familiar with the element can, it's just a Peterson fluid systems can with a different sticker on it, and marked up 35%

and looking at phil's site, the most common install method seems to be a total loss PCV system. no vac is being pulled, just both heads tee-d together into the can, then the center crankcase breather into the can as well, with a small breather vent-filter on the can.

I'm asking tom, because I know he doesn't make any decisions with out putting in the research to back it up.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:44 AM   #2608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post

that's not necessarily true. I'm familiar with the element can, it's just a Peterson fluid systems can with a different sticker on it, and marked up 35%

and looking at phil's site, the most common install method seems to be a total loss PCV system. no vac is being pulled, just both heads tee-d together into the can, then the center crankcase breather into the can as well, with a small breather vent-filter on the can.

I'm asking tom, because I know he doesn't make any decisions with out putting in the research to back it up.
Lol my fault dude. I had to go back and read what u was asking. Ur right. I also have that style catch can.

But for Ur question as to the logic im sure tom and or phil can chime in.

That's what I get for answering on the fly.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:29 AM   #2609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
that's not necessarily true. I'm familiar with the element can, it's just a Peterson fluid systems can with a different sticker on it, and marked up 35%
It's marked up a LOT more than 35%... More like 335%... $90 vs $300
Peterson Fluid Systems 08-0410 Remote Breather Can with 2 Fittings : Amazon.com : AutomotivePeterson Fluid Systems 08-0410 Remote Breather Can with 2 Fittings : Amazon.com : Automotive


Also looks like this has been common knowledge for a while now.
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...-catchcan.html

Tom, do you have any input on why you went with the more expensive Element Tuning can?
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #2610
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
It's marked up a LOT more than 35%... More like 335%... $90 vs $300... Tom, do you have any input on why you went with the more expensive Element Tuning can?

Yeah, that's been well known and understood in the community for years BUT there is one major difference. The AN fittings on the standard Peterson can are -10 and -8. Phil has his cans custom made with -12 and -10 fittings so that they flow more air. This however doesn't really add cost to the can but you're likely missing the point here. The Element kit is exactly that, a "kit", not an individual part. Peterson sells their can 100% bare and includes nothing with it. Its all the extra bits included with the can plus a reasonable markup that brings the cost of the kit to ~$300.

I purchased my can used in the for sale section of NASIOC several years ago because I am always looking for a deal. Even though I didn't buy one new, I do see the value in the quality, completeness, instructions, etc included with the Element kit. In my opinion, the most valuable piece of the Element kit is the super expensive vac hose used to plumb up the can. Keep in mind that 99% of people use cheap heater hose made for coolant applications (I am guessing you're in the 99%). Within a very short period of time this cheap hose will start to weep oil and break down exposing the fact that its inadequate for the task at hand. Further, most people use walmart grade "T" fittings and barbs that also break down under heat, oil and other extreme conditions in a very short period of time. In my experience, the cheap fittings will crack if disturbed after more than a single season of limited driving. The stress and high temps encountered during track time will quickly expose any inadequate component for what it is. The extra bits included with the Element kit WILL stand the test of both time and racing, I know this because I have one.

From a sales, engineering and marketing standpoint, I dont think the Element kit is really overpriced at all. I am sure Phil pays exactly the same price that we would all pay from Peterson, bundles another 10ft of hose which runs around $9 per foot, "T"s, Barbs, and hardware. This all likely runs a bit over $200 after shipping and to that he adds 30% markup to arrive at a price near $300. I am sure the communists in the room will have a problem with a greedy capitalist making 30% markup but that's life. If any of you haven't guessed it, the company I work for designs and builds stuff. They sell that stuff with enough markup to pay me and all my co-workers so I can in tern feed my family, pay my mortgage and buy a few toys. Capitalism has worked out pretty well for me, I suggest you all try it.

Last edited by dexterous; 04-13-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:36 PM   #2611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post

Yeah, that's been well known and understood in the community for years BUT there is one major difference. The AN fittings on the standard Peterson can are -10 and -8. Phil has his cans custom made with -12 and -10 fittings so that they flow more air. This however doesn't really add cost to the can but you're likely missing the point here. The Element kit is exactly that, a "kit", not an individual part. Peterson sells their can 100% bare and includes nothing with it. Its all the extra bits included with the can plus a reasonable markup that brings the cost of the kit to ~$300.

I purchased my can used in the for sale section of NASIOC several years ago because I am always looking for a deal. Even though I didn't buy one new, I do see the value in the quality, completeness, instructions, etc included with the Element kit. In my opinion, the most valuable piece of the Element kit is the super expensive vac hose used to plumb up the can. Keep in mind that 99% of people use cheap heater hose made for coolant applications (I am guessing you're in the 99%). Within a very short period of time this cheap hose will start to weep oil and break down exposing the fact that its inadequate for the task at hand. Further, most people use walmart grade "T" fittings and barbs that also break down under heat, oil and other extreme conditions in a very short period of time. In my experience, the cheap fittings will crack if disturbed after more than a single season of limited driving. The stress and high temps encountered during track time will quickly expose any inadequate component for what it is.

From a sales, engineering and marketing standpoint, I dont think the Element kit is really overpriced at all. I am sure Phil pays exactly the same price that we would all pay from Peterson, bundles another 10ft of hose which runs around $9 per foot, "T"s, Barbs, and hardware. This all likely runs around $200 after shipping and to that he adds 30% markup to arrive at a price near $300. I am sure the communists in the room will have a problem with a greedy capitalist making 30% markup but that's life.
Soooooooo... You're not pulling vacuum?
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:41 PM   #2612
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In other news, I have been extremely busy and haven't been able to work on the car at all. Hopefully I will be able to put the motor back in tonight but its unlikely that I will get far enough to start it up this weekend. Originally I wanted to drive it to work on Monday but there's no way thats going to happen. O well.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:51 PM   #2613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
Soooooooo... You're not pulling vacuum?
Nope, total PCV elimination which I am not 100% sure is the best way but it works well enough. If the chassis wasn't so nice I would run a dry sump and put the tank where the back seat normally sits.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:06 PM   #2614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post

Nope, total PCV elimination which I am not 100% sure is the best way but it works well enough. If the chassis wasn't so nice I would run a dry sump and put the tank where the back seat normally sits.
My setup is the same way with pulling no vacuum and works just fine!
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:41 PM   #2615
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Originally Posted by baseballdbk1 View Post

My setup is the same way with pulling no vacuum and works just fine!
Works just fine? Or doesn't suck? Sure it catches oil, but what else is it doing for you? There are way more reasons to pull vacuum on a crankcase than just to catch the air/oil/water vapors. I know a total loss catch can works okay, but that's not what I'm after with a good PCV system.

IMO your build would benefit from a vacuum pump more than most other motor mods you could do at this point. It's usually good for ~5% power gain.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #2616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post

I know a total loss catch can works okay, but that's not what I'm after with a good PCV system.

IMO your build would benefit from a vacuum pump more than most other motor mods you could do at this point. It's usually good for ~5% power gain.
All I know and care about it that it works for the exact reason I bought it which is to catch oil and water so it does not recirculate back into the intake system or back into the pan like the grimmspeed aos does that I was previously using...

I followed phil @ element instructions to eliminate the pcv all together to help evacuate crankcase pressure as quickly as possible and it works!
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:00 AM   #2617
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Guys our cans are 100% custom made for us and are 3.5" in diameter and are not the Peterson 2.5" can. Even the 3.5" band clamp is custom made for us and cannot be purchased anywhere but from us. I really put a lot of r&d into developing exactly what i needed and when it wasn't perfect we redesigned it.

I honestly wish I made 300% but I don't and when its wholesaled it's hardly worth my time but trust me when I say it's priced fairly. If you want a Peterson can buy one, if you want our 3.5" with larger fiting ports, AN Aeroquipe fittings, mounting brackets, quality hose, high temp glass reinforced fittings, and proper instructions, then support our company
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:11 AM   #2618
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I think it is hilarious no one took the time to measure the OD of the can. That would be a very easy walk up and point out the differences. Cheap asses. While I dont have an element can, you gotta pay to play and it seems that a lot of people on this forum can barely afford the car, but want OMG 400 HoRSe Yo that gets 35mpg
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #2619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Guys our cans are 100% custom made for us and are 3.5" in diameter and are not the Peterson 2.5" can. Even the 3.5" band clamp is custom made for us and cannot be purchased anywhere but from us. I really put a lot of r&d into developing exactly what i needed and when it wasn't perfect we redesigned it.

I honestly wish I made 300% but I don't and when its wholesaled it's hardly worth my time but trust me when I say it's priced fairly. If you want a Peterson can buy one, if you want our 3.5" with larger fiting ports, AN Aeroquipe fittings, mounting brackets, quality hose, high temp glass reinforced fittings, and proper instructions, then support our company
Not to be off topic in Toms thread, but a question for Phil. Would your catch can setup malfunction or work as good/better if a peson did draw a vacuum on it by replacing the top breather filter with an elbow and exhaust scavenging setup?
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:44 AM   #2620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Guys our cans are 100% custom made for us and are 3.5" in diameter and are not the Peterson 2.5" can. Even the 3.5" band clamp is custom made for us and cannot be purchased anywhere but from us. I really put a lot of r&d into developing exactly what i needed and when it wasn't perfect we redesigned it.

I honestly wish I made 300% but I don't and when its wholesaled it's hardly worth my time but trust me when I say it's priced fairly. If you want a Peterson can buy one, if you want our 3.5" with larger fiting ports, AN Aeroquipe fittings, mounting brackets, quality hose, high temp glass reinforced fittings, and proper instructions, then support our company
You have me sold on the can, I assumed dimensions based on outward appearance, so that was my fault.

What I'm still working on is if it is better to a full loss catch can (like yours) or be pulling vacuum on a on a catch can with equally as large port fittings. I was under the assumption that it is always better to pull vacuum rather than to let the crankcase and heads vent themselves.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:53 PM   #2621
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Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
Yeah, that's been well known and understood in the community for years BUT there is one major difference. The AN fittings on the standard Peterson can are -10 and -8. Phil has his cans custom made with -12 and -10 fittings so that they flow more air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/oil-08-0410/
BREATHER/FLUID CATCH TANK - ALUMINUM 3 INCH DIAMETER - INTERNALLY BAFFLED - 1X AN-12 MALE & AN-8 MALE PORTS - BOTTOM QUICK DRAIN PETCOCK VALVE - INCLUDES INSULATED STAINLESS STEEL CLAMP
Looks like the Peterson can has a -12 fitting and not -10 like you said. But maybe you are right about the other fitting being bigger on the Element can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Guys our cans are 100% custom made for us and are 3.5" in diameter and are not the Peterson 2.5" can. Even the 3.5" band clamp is custom made for us and cannot be purchased anywhere but from us. I really put a lot of r&d into developing exactly what i needed and when it wasn't perfect we redesigned it.

I honestly wish I made 300% but I don't and when its wholesaled it's hardly worth my time but trust me when I say it's priced fairly. If you want a Peterson can buy one, if you want our 3.5" with larger fiting ports, AN Aeroquipe fittings, mounting brackets, quality hose, high temp glass reinforced fittings, and proper instructions, then support our company
I guess you've never measured the Peterson can. Because it is NOT 2.5". See the quote/link above. Tom, mind if I measure your Element can's diameter at the next meet?

OH WAIT, I don't have to since Element says it right here on their website...
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.elementtuning.com/elementcompetitioncatchcan.htm
Element Competition Catch Cans are fabricated in the USA: (not all kit components are shown in picture)

- Dimensions: 11.25" Length x 6" Diameter
- 3" Diameter Aluminum Catch Can
- 1.4" breather port
- Wire Mesh/Cotton Breather Filter
- -12 AN Crankcase Breather Port
- -12 AN Socketless Aluminum 90% fitting
- -10 AN Head Breather Port (or can be used as a -8 AN Intake Vacuum Port)
Also, this last statement confuses me. How do you connect a -8AN or -10AN connector to the same fitting?

I sure do love me a smoke and mirrors show.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:34 PM   #2622
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In for the LOLs!
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:25 PM   #2623
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post

Also, this last statement confuses me. How do you connect a -8AN or -10AN connector to the same fitting?
Because both a -8 and a -10 fitting can use the same threads on the other side of the fittings. They could both be a 1/2" NPT for example, and one could be a -8, and the other fitting a -10. So either you pick what size you want when you order, or both size NPT to AN fittings are provided with the kit.

I'm not questioning the design of the catch can at all. It is a good design and works to catch the junk coming out of the crankcase.
The bigger question to me at least, is why wouldn't you want to pull vacuum through the catch can, providing a positive flow to evacuate the blowby emissions?
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:50 PM   #2624
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You get more flow through the crankcase if you draw a vacuum on it. Basically PCV style without the check valve if you use the intake as the vacuum source.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:10 PM   #2625
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I'm with Kelly and Bettner on this one. My Crawford AOS v2 seems to be removing crank case pressure...my oil level hasn't gone down yet in 2000 miles.
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