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Old 04-16-2013, 10:42 PM   #1
chitownej
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Default NEED TUNE! In NW IL-- Road tune okay for VF39 on 07 wrx

Hey everyone,
I got a vf39 setup with: DW 750cc, sti tmic, 255lph fuel pump, tial 38mm ewg, uppipe, intake, tbe, vf39.
I need a tune for this asap, dont need a dyno tune and I need a road tune asap. I dont want some garage tune, if anyone knows some shops or anyone with an opening let me know, thanks!
Mike
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:23 AM   #2
sparrow06
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Try to pm mark at apm, good service and good guy.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #3
chitownej
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just got off the phone with them got an appt. for friday!
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by chitownej View Post
just got off the phone with them got an appt. for friday!
You won't regret it
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:05 PM   #5
chitownej
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I don't! Marks a great guy very fair and went out of his way to tune my car today and stayed late definetly recommend to anyone!
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:17 PM   #6
APM Tuned
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Thanks Mike, little hiccup in the laptops but that got sorted and luckily we got that intercooler to fit with the custom brackets.

Like I said, despite what was going on on that one topic, just enjoy the car and have fun with it. Get used to the wastegate btw!

-Mark
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #7
chitownej
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Hey mark! I am getting used to it it sounds so mean! I had a question, ill call tomorrow
It feels like barely faster or just as fast as the td04 for some reason, I doubt I can get used to it that quick haha, it feels like when dumptube is making the sound it's like restricting kind of, do you know what that's from? And trans has been just fine so far feels the same
Thanks for staying late that night I really appreciate it!
Mike
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #8
chitownej
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I just did 2nd gear pull 30-90 it actually feels better

Last edited by chitownej; 04-22-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:52 PM   #9
hoffmanEstates
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Is ewg all that?
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:23 AM   #10
chitownej
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Edit: na

Last edited by chitownej; 04-22-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:32 AM   #11
hoffmanEstates
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I understand. Is the internal waste gate flapper welded shut. Could it be due to your injectors being maxed out.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownej View Post
I just did 2nd gear pull 30-90 it actually feels restricted its definetly the same power level! I hear that EWG adds power every time so I don't see why It can be like that it has to be because its only at 16psi right? With 19 I'd be 25 more whp right?
Mike
Peak boost on a VF does not correlate as well with total horsepower as it does on larger turbos. A VF is going to taper regardless and you won't carry any more than perhaps 15-16 psi to redline so if you are tuned for 16 psi your top end isn't going to change with boost. If you spiked 22 psi (just for example) you might make 5-10 more peak, but it would likely be around 4500-5000 rpm and you would make literally no more power after 5500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmanEstates View Post
I understand. Is the internal waste gate flapper welded shut. Could it be due to your injectors being maxed out.
He said he had DW750s on a VF39, the injectors won't be maxxed on 93 unless he is trying to run like 8:1 AFR . He got the 750s specifically to not have IDC cutting it close.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:30 AM   #13
chitownej
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Edit: they tuned me down to not risk any problems
Mike

Last edited by chitownej; 04-22-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:32 PM   #14
hoffmanEstates
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Maybe splurge on a Dyno tune
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:11 PM   #15
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It's tuned down because the tuner felt the same thing in Mike's car that he felt with another clients car (regrettably) just before the trans went boom on a second gear pull. It's just not as safe feeling and it was a decision to keep the boost and timing conservative but consistent so that the progression of power was there without the added risks.

Mike was asked if he wanted to continue the tune and get more power out of it (which would have been extended to the next day) and we wouldn't have had an issue with that at all. It was simply under advisement that we keep it as conservative as we can so that the car can be enjoyed.

Brian is right, the VF, TD04 and even the Mitsu (pretty much any factory frame turbo's but IHI more than others) do NOT equate to the same power potentials if you can look at a compressor map. We've actually done a Evo 9 turbo in a WRX and that thing flew, but it was pretty much identical to how it feels when you install a 16G that's ported...it's the turbo more so then anything else. Engineers design them a certain way to properly produce EFFICIENCY at a certain atmosphere for the engine. Turbochargers work only one way, so if you want to get more power, you need more turbo...or a better efficiency head design, and larger intake runners, better manifold, higher compression engine, coating etc. The best setup we've ever had on a turbocharged car was a proper 2 stage boost controller. 2 Solenoids, CO2 Tank and the whole lot...that was the real way that we could have produced a car that wouldn't overspin the turbo thus blow hot air. Spike turbo's can cause that as the turbo exceeds it's range of efficiency and when it drops boy-o-boy does it drop. But until someone has experience a car the will spike 30lbs and hold 30lbs all the way to redline and beyond (trust me, the feeling is glorious) then you go about your normal business. There are a lot of ways to go about it, but your once again building one thing...efficiency, it just depends on how you use it and which way you take it.

It's funny, we've done plenty of Evo's and STI's through here and the one biggest difference from our perspective is this...to get the Subaru (by design or something) to a power level and curve as with the Evo's you'll loose something, well, two things. You're going to loose torque and you're going to loose money. It simply takes more to do it more with the vehicles and trust me, it's taught us a LOT as to how to go about builds and setups for clients. Bringing out the efficiency in the engine is the best way to go about it with these things, and that way you'll be happy (spending a good chunk of change when comparing) and you'll have reliability. Jorge taught me a great quote that I'll always take with me, pick two "power, costs or reliability" and that mentality is what will take extreme changes in how cars are setup and build will be produced.

The VF39 generation of the IHI turbo's have seen more power but the benefiting factor is trq, even more so if paired with a proper ramp rate camshaft so the collaborations of the VE work with each-other in harmony...but who's going to do all that. On average when we've compared a turbo back to back (no one can do it to be 100% accurate I know I know) on a clients vehicle with required tuning there were gains up to 50trq and 25-30hp.

Now, this makes a difference in numerous ways. How tired the engine is, the turbocharger, what type of cooling efficiency is in place.

Grimspeed/Tial EWG Kit
Turbo XS Bellmouth
APM "Super Light" Cat Back
ETS TMIC
VF39
DW 750cc
Iridium Plugs
COBB SRI
APM 3 Port Boost Control System

This car made those differences, he was at about 70K with a 155 all around compression engine and the car in prestine condition. He was being boosted at around 18-19 on the TD04 and 19-20 on the VF turbo. We had the turbo welded up for the wastegate and was very willing (almost wanting) to have trans failure as the client was ready for an upgrade (which we just scheduled in actually). He's not as much about the power but more the feel...wish he was more on the forums too so he could speak up.

The car if driven next to a TD04 with the same type of mods and tuned in for the same boost and whatever (via same style or let alone same tuner) would be a bit faster, but remember, it's tuned down not up...if you're willing or wanting a bit more power (which will still be done to the safest manner possible) then that's fine. Just as long as we have an understanding with the trans, the same offer stands at it did that Friday night Mike.

We try to take pride in honesty and integrity while making sure the community strives via good prices and that won't change for anyone. So if you want something different or more then let us know, I'd like to look into actually utilizing the wastegate a bit more as well.

-Mark
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:52 PM   #16
chitownej
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No mark it's all good I understand.
I'm just confusing because:
You said it was at 16psi but I see it hit 22 on the gauge so I think you have fuel cut at 22 which means its boost creeping really bad still. Or you set boost at 20psi. Either way I feel what u mean on snapping 2nd, I think I'm going to sell the car and just buy a stock sti when I save up enough $. Can you really feel a difference between an sti with tbe and dyno vs a Wrx with tbe?
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:39 PM   #17
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I was beating stage 2 sti's in my tuned 06 vf39 wrx. Save for a 6 speed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #18
APM Tuned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownej View Post
No mark it's all good I understand.
I'm just confusing because:
You said it was at 16psi but I see it hit 22 on the gauge so I think you have fuel cut at 22 which means its boost creeping really bad still. Or you set boost at 20psi. Either way I feel what u mean on snapping 2nd, I think I'm going to sell the car and just buy a stock sti when I save up enough $. Can you really feel a difference between an sti with tbe and dyno vs a Wrx with tbe?
Well, either there's an issue with the gauge or there's an external reasoning for the creep because it wasn't seen here. So, either the ewg sleeve is seizing for some reason after it's been heat cycled (which would mean you have a second failure), we need to modify the boost control system or the gauge...it's odd as it wasn't doing it here.

You had pretty low set duty cycles as well so it's a bit odd...

-Mark
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #19
chitownej
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Mark- ill call you later we can talk there you know what I mean
Thanks! And I'm very happy with tune pulls very hard anyone needs a tune check out APM in elmhurst!
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #20
APM Tuned
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Thanks Mike, and please do call, I'd be more than happy to see if there's anything we can do. I'd rather make sure that you're safe so if there is an underlying mechanical issue we should take a look at it...

The only other thing that I've ever found that made a turbo creep was the lack of back pressure (turbulence is different and VF's do have plenty of it) but that's when you start talking larger turbo's really, not small frame turbo's.

If everything else was changed (turbo, wastegate, exhaust system) and the leak fixed then there's a natural order of deduction that is performed. I'd like to see if there is anything that we can do to help the situation is all, especially that it wasn't happening to us.

-Mark
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