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Old 04-19-2013, 09:29 AM   #1
progonat
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Unhappy Engine seized.. what to do? Unseize, Rebuild or replace? What are my options?

Hello everyone!

As you can see from my replies, I am new to Subarus. I recently got a 2006 Legacy Outback in great condition but with an non starting engine. It seems that my engine is seized and I am trying to figure out what my options are, rebuilt or replace?


History on the car!

Clean car. 13X,k miles on it. I am located in Baltimore.
I bought this car from a bank, it was a repo. When they got it, it was runing. From pictures of the tachometer, engine runing, no overheating. With that in mind I thought it wouldn't be anything serious, as a seized engine. Plus..... I bought it at a good price I think (we will see I guess). The engine had oil on it, it's black but the level is full. The only thing I noticed was the radiator hose had a crack on it. My guess is that the engine was overheated.

My troubleshooting so far!

I tried to spin the crankshaft by placing a socket on the center bolt at it doesn't move at all. Replaced with new battery + connected jumper cables and the starter tries and get stuck, without turning the engine at all. As 0 degrees rotation. Pulled the starter checked, all ok, tried to spin engine by hand nothing still.

Pulled the spark plugs, sprayed wd-40, sat for one day. Pulled all the bets. Also puled the timing belt. Both camshafts spin without a problem. And no seized pulleys or water pump. Timing belt off ( didn't break), I tried to turn the crankshaft by hand. Still doesn't move at all. When I was trying to turn the crankshaft, the starter was out, car in neutral (doesn't really matter on an automatic), all the belts off including timing belt.

Engine seized.

Obviously this engine is seized. I am a little shocked though. I only work on Mercedes Benz, and never seen a seized engine.


What should I do? Engine options?

Anything else I should try to unseize (free) this engine? I am not sure if it is rod bearing or pistons being stuck. I am giving up on trying to bring this engine to life.

So I am really looking at replacing this engine. I don't want to spend more than $1000 to $1500. This is a 2.5L non turbo SOHC , 06 Outback Legacy.

My other options are to sell this thing at an auction or trying to sell it private party as is.

What engines would fit on this car? Do I have to stick to the exact engine, model and year? Or is there another engine (2.2L) that would fit?

Is it possible to find an engine, even high miles in that price range? Rebuilt a good option? Don't really have the time for that, plus would be my first one.

Sorry this is long. I appreciate all the replies that will follow.

Thank you.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:43 AM   #2
slowgenius
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Um quick question. Is the car an auto or manual? I was gonna say make sure car is not in gear. Wanted to cover bases. Maybe water got in cylinders and siezed rings, not necessarily ruined it. May have to pull it and change head gaskets.

My old shortblock wont turn after its been sittimg and rings rusted.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:54 AM   #3
progonat
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It's an auto. I pulled the plugs and put some wd-40 in.

I am planing on pulling the pan and inspecting the rod bearings.

It will be nice if it is just the head gasket.


How can I put some torque on the crankshaft?

I am afraid to use the crankshaft bolt and put a beaker bar on it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:03 AM   #4
slowgenius
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Maybe use something other than wd40. Some PB Blaster or Kroil? If the timing belt is on it, mabe it would turn after a while, if not a valve could be stuck also.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
Somerset Subaru
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Marvel Mystery Oil. Let it sit for a while. Then try and turn it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:26 AM   #6
progonat
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Bent valves? I guess it could be. Both of the camshafts were rotating fine, but I guess that won't tell if a valve is bent, stuck open.

I have some Marvel Mystery sitting around. Will try that.


Does the flywheel have an access port on these cars where I can try to put some force as I am trying to turn the engine.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:35 PM   #7
progonat
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If this engine can't be salvaged what could be my options?

Is there any other models that would fit this car or do I have to stay with 06 Outback engines only?


How about replacing the engine block only? Any suggestions? Sources where to get one?

Thanks guys.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:03 PM   #8
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progonat View Post
I am planing on pulling the pan and inspecting the rod bearings.
Not gonna work. You can't get to the rod bearings without pulling the engine apart. Here are a couple of pictures that show the problem. (That's an EZ30 6-cyl, but the EJ25s are essentially the same.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by progonat View Post
How can I put some torque on the crankshaft?

I am afraid to use the crankshaft bolt and put a beaker bar on it.
Your best bet is to do exactly that. The crankshaft bolt it pretty big - unless you're putting stupid amounts of torque on it, you're not going to break it. (There are plenty of stories of folks using monster breaker bars to break the crank pulley bolt lose, as it tends to tighten up over time.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by progonat View Post
If this engine can't be salvaged what could be my options?

Is there any other models that would fit this car or do I have to stay with 06 Outback engines only?

How about replacing the engine block only? Any suggestions? Sources where to get one?

Thanks guys.
Subaru has been using the EJ25 in everything for years, so there are plenty of swap options - Forester, Legacy, Outback and Impreza all use the EJ25.

2006 was the first year with the i-AVLS system on the N/A Outbacks and Legacys; the Impreza (and maybe Forester, too?) got that engine in 2005. I would say the 2005-2007 engines are all the same (or close enough for government work), and maybe even a couple/few years after 2007, too. Whether you'll be able to find a complete engine in your price range just depends on your searching skills. Check ebay, car-part.com, craigslist, etc.

You could conceivably find just a short block and re-use your existing heads. Of course, you'd want to get them thoroughly cleaned up, as whatever seized the motor may have contaminated the oiling system that was feeding the heads/cams.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:14 PM   #9
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Thank you for all this helpful information.

Well I guess I will put some more force on the crankshaft bolt and see if I can move the crank a little.


How much does a short block sell for this cars? Where is the best place to shop for one?


The best whole engine I found so far is $1400 (121k miles) shipped. I am tempted to go for that.


Unless someone would like to take this car off my hands.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:00 PM   #10
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I would assume water got into the engine and rusted the rings in place. Even with massive overheating these engines tend to loosen back up and still run after cooling off.

WD40 will not work. It's not really a penetrating oil. You'd be better of pouring warm diesel in with a funnel or Kroil and letting it sit for a couple days.

The port to get into the bellhousing is below the throttle body. Its a black rubber plug with a tab on it. It's also how you loosen the 4 flexplate to torque converter bolts so you can pull the engine. Without being able to turn the engine you have to pull the torque converter with it, which can be a real pain because you run out of room to pull the engine forward.

I have also used grease to turn a stuck engine before. You take a bolt with the same threads as a spark plug, drill a hole down through the center of it, and tap it for a grease nipple. Find the cylinder with the piston partway up the bore (not TDC or BDC), thread in your adapter and start pumping grease in. The valves have to be shut on that cylinder, but since you have the timing belt off you can rotate them to do that. The pressure from the grease gun once you have the cylinder full of grease will push on the piston and try to force the crank to turn. With even cheap grease guns hitting at least 3000 psi, that's a lot of pushing force on the piston.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:24 PM   #11
progonat
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This engine seems like it is done. I have tried many things and the crankshaft doesn't turn at all.

At this point I am looking to even sell as it is on eBay for dirt cheap or try another engine.


I have found a used engine but it had a manual transmission. What will I need to change for it to fit with the automatic transmission? Flywheel I guess? Can I swap mine? But what other changes will it need?

I don't want to give up on this thing, yet.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:08 PM   #12
Blacksheep6
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Check your timing belt idler pullies. If they sieze so does the timing belt. Thus your crank will not turn.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #13
progonat
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I took the timing belt off. All the pulleys where fine. The crankshaft on its on didn't rotate at all, in either directions.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:35 PM   #14
Blacksheep6
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Looks like its time to pull it apart and rebuild it.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:28 PM   #15
Mario_pic
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over fill motor with oil till its at top and let it sit over night get thinest oil u can find then slowly try to work the crank back and forth till u get movement and drain oil after u get it to move did it once on an old 86 integra that had bad head gasket and water and oil mixed and sat for a year ran after i un seazed it lol little oil smoke for 2 weeks but stoped after that lol
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:40 PM   #16
progonat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario_pic View Post
over fill motor with oil till its at top and let it sit over night get thinest oil u can find then slowly try to work the crank back and forth till u get movement and drain oil after u get it to move did it once on an old 86 integra that had bad head gasket and water and oil mixed and sat for a year ran after i un seazed it lol little oil smoke for 2 weeks but stoped after that lol
Was your crank moving at all? Mine doesn't move even with a breaker bar on the crankshaft, period. I let it sit with mystery oil for three days after that it still didn't move at all.

If it is pistons seized I thought it will move a little with the breaker bar. But I am wondering if it is a crankshaft or main bearing seazed. I don't really have a way to tell.
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:52 PM   #17
lavid2002
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I don't even know why you are screwing with this... if the crank won't turn at all the engine has to come out.

Briefly inspect the starter and make sure it's not stuck open or anything weird like that, but that engine has to come out no matter what. Might as well get to work...
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:26 AM   #18
binjoau
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Pour a cup of ATF into each cylinder and leave overnight
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #19
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavid2002 View Post
I don't even know why you are screwing with this... if the crank won't turn at all the engine has to come out.
I don't even know why you are offering advice on a thread that is 3 months old. I'm guessing he's already moved on.
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