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Old 04-19-2013, 12:38 PM   #26
scby rex
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Why not just do the normal service and then get a assembled sb from mps? Run til compression is down then swap out.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by scby rex View Post
Why not just do the normal service and then get a assembled sb from mps? Run til compression is down then swap out.
Yea I have been thinking of buying a built short block ore assembled. Just not quiet convince it falls into my budget.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #28
Mastuss3055
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Im running cp pistons now.. they are great other then the cold start slap when it gets warmed up thou the car sounds great..
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfx2043 View Post
For 400whp in a DD that you want to go alot of miles before a rebuild go with 4032 psitons. 4032 was specificly designed for that type of application. Only problem is if you get addicted to power and want 500+ I would start to worry about the 4032 pistons.
Agreed, surprised more people haven't responded with this. 4032 has less thermal expansion so it allows you to run tighter clearances, making for a quieter motor that has less blowby and less wear.

I was looking for this in my motor which is why I chose the Rallispec Street Spec block which uses Cosworth 4032 pistons and Manley rods... good for 500+ whp still geared toward a daily driven street car. The design of the Cosworth pistons is derived from their involvement in F1 and is more advanced than most of the competition, but they also come at a premium price. My power goals are closer to 400 whp personally but I've seen someone put 60k miles on this block at 550 whp (mike botti). Overall I think the cost of the build was quite reasonable and am looking forward to getting this thing installed and broken in soon!
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
Thanks for your info.

Tuner/builder did say the sticker would be just fine. I've just read through so many threads and everyone seems to be using them.

Same with oil pump.

I'm kinda leaning towards the CP's. seems from everything I have read they very reliable.
Tell me why the builder wants you to use the sti 11mm oil pump...?? If you are not revving higher than stock of 7k then you do not need the 11mm pump. KillerBmotorsport has a ton of info on this as well as Dom at Maxwell Power.

The stock 10mm oil pump flows more than enough oil but the OEM spec bearing clearances can't handle that flow so the bearings are not getting 100% of that flow due to the tight clearances. By opening up the bearing clearances to like 0.0015 for mains and 0.002 for rods, the bearings are getting much more flow and a lot closer to the full output of the 10mm pump due to the clearances being opened up. You are now effectively matching the bearing clearances to the pump flow output much better than if it were stock.

So, are you keeping the stock 7k redline? Are your heads single avcs or none avcs?
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:58 AM   #31
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Please STOP regurgitation the 11mm oil pump info and leading people to believe it will instantly destroy their engine!! There are tons of people running them on their builds with no issue. For a street car that does not see lots of time in bypass it is not a big deal.

Have you actually read the info from MPS and KillerB? Do you understand it?

Hell I just rebuild an N/A EJ25D. Guess what oil pump it had from the factory...a 10mm!! On a non-AVCS non-turbo engine!! OH NO IT WILL FLOW TOO MUCH OIL!!

I am sorry but it is getting old. Not doubting MPS or KillerB, but every time someone posts a street build with an 11mm pump people act like it will cause the world to stop spinning.

Last edited by aboothman; 05-12-2013 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Please STOP regurgitation the 11mm oil pump info and leading people to believe it will instantly destroy their engine!! There are tons of people running them on their builds with no issue. For a street car that does not see lots of time in bypass it is not a big deal.

Have you actually read the info from MPS and KillerB? Do you understand it?

Hell I just rebuild an N/A EJ25D. Guess what oil pump it had from the factory...a 10mm!! On a non-AVCS non-turbo engine!! OH NO IT WILL FLOW TOO MUCH OIL!!

I am sorry but it is getting old. Not doubting MPS or KillerB, but every time someone posts a street build with an 11mm pump people act like it will cause the world to stop spinning.
This!!!
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #33
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And I wouldn't avoid Wiseco because one person had a bad experience. Lot's of factors play into engine failure and it usually isn't due to bad parts.

Wiseco makes their own in-house forgings and make great pistons. xdrian made 828whp with Wisecos... No cracking.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:30 AM   #34
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I've run CP/JE/Wiseco and Manley without issue. You MUST have a competent machinist that will provide you with a round/straight bore with the correct clearance. I've used .0025 to .003 clearance and the engines have a very light clatter on startup and are VERY quiet when warm. I'd venture to say anyone that posted video or complaints of noisy EJs didn't have the clearance they were told or measured incorrectly.

In regards to the 4032, it's a great option if your dealing with a experienced tuner and the goals match your parts selection and octane used. If you've got a cowboy on the laptop and want to make 500hp on "pump" you're wasting your time with 4032 as they crack long before a 2618 fails.

Thanks
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:50 AM   #35
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Great thread Ryan. And interesting responses thus far.

To add a little information to this thread (and hopefully keep discussion more on-point) I will be the one building OP's engine. As we've already discussed, its nothing fancy at all, just more or less of a mild refresh with forged drop in slugs and rods. (mainly because of his budget and mild power goals)

Basic rundown:
06 OEM ej255 block
Heads completely refreshed
drop in pistons (hence this thread)
manley rods
new bearings
arp head studs
stock crank (no need for anything fancy)
stock oil pump (no need for 11mm pump like others said)
other misc stuff

The goal is only 400whp, and that will be achieved with a blouch 20g and e85. The goal here is OEM like engine operation and as close to eom as possible for reliability/longetivity. This is a 100% daily driver with the very rare trip to the track every now and then.

Reason I recommended he ask around about noisy pistons is because I've:
-both had and heard mixed results with Wiseco, so we won't be using those
-had good results with cp, but car was a bit noisy on cold starts. nothing drastic, but you could still hear a bit of slap. also a tiny bit of oil consumption. I forget what specs/tolerances we built that engine too, its been many years since, but I know I didn't set it too loose because that too was a daily driven car. the slap and consumption was very mild, but if possible I'd like to build this engine with even less.

So maximum det resistance isn't the goal here, since e85 will be used exclusively.

So far the two that I found using this 4032 alloy are cosworth and mahle. Cosworth is crazy expensive (850-1050) so those are out, mahle is way more reasonable (530).

So I'm interested to hear more on the mahle's (if any of you used them) or something similar. If another piston would be a REALLY good idea even if its not forged from 4032 please post up your input/suggestions/experience on those too.

Hope that helps and again thanks for the input guys.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:03 AM   #36
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I have a Mahle 4032 piston on my desk...with a cracked ringland. Engine ran 17k miles before it decided to do a spontanious ring land liberation. Owner didn't care / didn't pay attention and drove for another 5k miles with a blown ringland.

I have no idea if it blew up because of the tune or because of the material / construction of the piston, so take this info for what it's worth.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:59 AM   #37
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I run manleys and they have a small amount of slap when cold. Sounds like a stock motor besides that.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicfire View Post
I have a Mahle 4032 piston on my desk...with a cracked ringland. Engine ran 17k miles before it decided to do a spontanious ring land liberation. Owner didn't care / didn't pay attention and drove for another 5k miles with a blown ringland.

I have no idea if it blew up because of the tune or because of the material / construction of the piston, so take this info for what it's worth.
ouch

well that sucks.

was this a pump gas car? any signs of severe detonation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaal View Post
I run manleys and they have a small amount of slap when cold. Sounds like a stock motor besides that.
I've been seeing "manley" mentioned a bunch of times everywhere. I'm not very familiar with their products, but so far I'm seeing pretty good results. hmm
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:02 PM   #39
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On one of our higher HP shop cars we have the Manley pistons and I had the sides/skirts Swain Tech coated to tighten them up. It's the quietest built motor I've ever heard. It's no louder than stock.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:02 PM   #40
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I'm not an engine builder and i'm far from being an expert on built engines, but when I disassembled this engine I saw no signs of detonation. Rods were straight and true and there was no damage to bearing surfaces. I didn't have the heads for this motor so I wasn't able to look at the plugs and valves.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:14 PM   #41
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Any other input?!?
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:11 PM   #42
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Bump.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:22 PM   #43
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I have been very happy with manley pistons. Quietest pistons I have installed on any engine so far
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:33 PM   #44
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I have Cosworth 99.75mm pistons in my built ej255 motor, with eagle rods, and stock crank,with clearance's opened up for the 11mm pump. My car is tuned on c85 (time attack) and 93 pump for street and puts down right around 400whp on the 93 map with the Blouch 2.5XTR @ 21psi. I have not noticed any piston slap whatsoever with the Cosworth pistons. Best of luck on your build!

Edit: Just re-read OP and saw "crazy expensive so those are out" I thought the same thing but decided I'd rather save up a little longer and buy pistons that have been proven to perform and operate as quiet as OEM. Worth the added expense in my opinion, though I'm sure there are more affordable options that will indeed get the job done!

Last edited by blazzin06wrxdude; 08-22-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:22 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazzin06wrxdude View Post
I have Cosworth 99.75mm pistons in my built ej255 motor, with eagle rods, and stock crank,with clearance's opened up for the 11mm pump. My car is tuned on c85 (time attack) and 93 pump for street and puts down right around 400whp on the 93 map with the Blouch 2.5XTR @ 21psi. I have not noticed any piston slap whatsoever with the Cosworth pistons. Best of luck on your build!

Edit: Just re-read OP and saw "crazy expensive so those are out" I thought the same thing but decided I'd rather save up a little longer and buy pistons that have been proven to perform and operate as quiet as OEM. Worth the added expense in my opinion, though I'm sure there are more affordable options that will indeed get the job done!
Cossies are 4032
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladiWrX View Post
So far the two that I found using this 4032 alloy are cosworth and mahle. Cosworth is crazy expensive (850-1050) so those are out, mahle is way more reasonable (530).

So I'm interested to hear more on the mahle's (if any of you used them) or something similar. If another piston would be a REALLY good idea even if its not forged from 4032 please post up your input/suggestions/experience on those too.

Hope that helps and again thanks for the input guys.
I run Mahle 4032s in my hybrid motor, 99.75mm size. They are extremely quiet (my machinist is very good as well, take that into consideration), and have held up just fine on my VF34 setup. I'm moving up to a DOM 1.5XTR and shooting for 375whp on 93, and I'm very confident that with a good tune the Mahle pistons will be fine.

Fellow enthusiasts often comment positively about how quiet my motor runs, and they are suprised I have forged pistons. I also have little to no oil blowby. I rarely add any oil, if ever, between changes. My redline is 7k though, so I don't see a lot of high revs.

For 400whp, I personally think you will be fine with a good tune.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post

Cossies are 4032
No, they are not. http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Cosw...-2004-2011-STI
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #48
rymaggi
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Any other users running 4032 pistons around 400/400?
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:08 PM   #49
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I was running Cosworth pistons making 400/400 on e85 with a Blouch 20g. Pistons held up great.. cant say the same for the Manley rods though.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:41 PM   #50
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I just had my block rebuilt by IAG with Manley pistons and rods and they are very loud. klack klack klack on startup but does quiet down when hot. I dont burn any oil though and no smoke on startup...just a really loud motor. Hopefully long lasting motor ::fingers crossed:: lol.
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