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Old 05-01-2013, 12:23 AM   #251
stevehnm
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Was driving with cruise control set at the posted speed limit, so 55mph on the state routes between Columbus and Sandusky, 65mph on Ohio Interstates, and 70mph on Kentucky / Tennessee Interstates. Average MPH reported by the trip computer was in the 50-55 range.



It is behind a paywall.

So I'll ask again, someone at CR got 35mpg in a TL, so that means the Impreza only gets 30?
Hmm. Average between 50 and 55, not 70 per Zeeper...

It's not just the TL. All of the other cars that got the same highway mpg by Consumer Reports' drivers came in at 30 +/- 2 on the EPA highway test, with the Legacy the only one above 31.

That makes the 36 of the CVT Impreza (still interesting how many hyenas with manual transmissions are commenting on this thread) the hugely overoptimistic outlier.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #252
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Hmm. Average between 50 and 55, not 70 per Zeeper...

It's not just the TL. All of the other cars that got the same highway mpg by Consumer Reports' drivers came in at 30 +/- 2 on the EPA highway test, with the Legacy the only one above 31.

That makes the 36 of the CVT Impreza (still interesting how many hyenas with manual transmissions are commenting on this thread) the hugely overoptimistic outlier.
First off, your reading comprehension is as bad as your math -- before the numbers were posted I predicted that those numbers were not the result of sustained highway driving at speeds faster than 65mph:

"Yes, pretty much spot on, you may have been running some winter gas blends during the trip, so that can account for some of the reduced mpg's.

What speeds were you driving it? If you were above 65mph for sustained driving that will also put you well outside the test parameters used by the EPA to derive the 36mpg figure.

Your mpg's are very similar to the real world (not spreadsheet) results other CVT drivers have been reporting, and far better than those reported by someone who drives his car at speeds over 75mph regularly..."

Given the reported speeds confirm my prediction, I expected you to congratulate rather than obfuscate, but that is too much to ask from a spreadsheet wunderkind.

I never said anything about his average speed, just that if his highway speeds were 65mph or lower his mpg's would be pretty good and potentially higher than he reported for his trip.

Was that too hard to understand?

PS Having an average mph of 50-55 indicates that this reported mileage was not all highway, or involved lots of stop and go traffic, if the car was driven between 55-65mph on cruise for a sustained highway drive, without the stop and go or side trips factored in, I would wager that the 36mpg would have been obtained, even with winter blend gas.

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:27 AM   #253
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if the car was driven between 55-65mph on cruise for a sustained highway drive, without the stop and go or side trips factored in, I would wager that the 36mpg would have been obtained, even with winter blend gas.
You are probably right about that. The Consumer Reports test is a constant 65 mph, and the Impreza CVT got 35 mpg there by a professional driver.

The thing is, a dozen other cars, all of the ones tested by Consumer Reports that also got 35 mpg on their highway test with a professional driver, are rated at 30 +/- 2 mpg EPA highway.

That's my point.

Well, one of them anyway. The other point is that you don't even have a CVT, so why do you think you are qualified to discuss this? All you do is bring up a collection of a few anecdotes anyway, which under the circumstances is an inept attempt at making a position.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #254
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^So you agree the Impreza can get 36mpg on the highway? /closethread
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:40 AM   #255
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Agree... Close Thread as the major "point" has been proved. Different drivers yield different MPG results. Different cars with different HP and Torque yield different results. The EPA is just what it is - An estimate and nothing more. Yes, I do have the CVT and yes different drivers that result in different MPG results. I fail to see what "having a Manual transmission vs. a CVT" has anything to do with a MPG conversation. Maybe it's just me; but, I think that anyone researching (accomplishing anything statistical) can contribute regardless of what they own - something like not needing to be a Cardiac Physician to accomplish statistics regarding Heart Attacks and death rates.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:27 PM   #256
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You are probably right about that. The Consumer Reports test is a constant 65 mph, and the Impreza CVT got 35 mpg there by a professional driver.

The thing is, a dozen other cars, all of the ones tested by Consumer Reports that also got 35 mpg on their highway test with a professional driver, are rated at 30 +/- 2 mpg EPA highway.
What did similarly rated cars like Mazda3 and Focus get in that test?
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:25 PM   #257
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Mazda3 i Touring SkyActiv and Focus SE both got 43 mpg highway on the Consumer Reports test.

As far as agreeing the CVT can get 36 mpg on the highway, I've already stated that I can get 50 mpg on the highway. It just depends on how slow you want to go.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:47 PM   #258
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There seems to be a lot of stock put in consumer reports as an organization like they are some holy grail. My personal experience being in the A/V profession, and doing it at very high levels, is that I very rarely agree with what they claim. I guarantee I spend more time with a/v equipment than any of the "test engineers" they have there and I have what they do not, accountability. They are not held accountable for their findings or recommendations. I, however as a business owner am accountable to my clients. With regards to automotive, they had reported very poor quality and reliability with the version of corvette I had (C4). That would be the vette I put 195,000 miles on without any issues and routinely got 30+ mpg on highway and high teens in town. My Toyota tacoma's I had ( matching pair of black 4wd ex-cabs) rated very high in reliability according to CR. One of them had tranny issues ( lost 4th gear twice) and my other blew two head gaskets. Toyota finally recalled head gaskets, but point being totally opposite real world results from CR in these two examples. I think the old adage " the one with the gold makes the rules..." Applies here. I would rather take the word of ALMOST anyone on this board over any recommendation CR makes. At least I know there isn't any monetary influence here.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:48 PM   #259
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Took my car in last Thurs to have a bunch of stuff done. Told the tech, not the write up service rep- was not happy with the MPG, explained my whole reason for buying the car and what my real world MPG's were for the last 7k miles.

He basically laughed at me and said I should be happy with anything near 30mpg, said car is way overrated compared to what is advertised and not capable of reaching the advertised 36mpg as is with Front Wheet drive cars. His words not mine. Soo... Just adds another log to the fire.

I really like my car, has actually grown on me, and now that the little rattles are finally fixed, I like it more. But I am very confident in telling anybody who wants to buy a CVT Impreza - do not beleive the advertised MPG's, you wont achieve them when compared to other cars rated the same. So no matter what you all chime in about, especially (you know who you are) stevehnm is 100% correct. Other cars rated the same do meet and can exceed. The imprezza does not, should be rated lower. It comes down to Subarus PZEV tune and AWD IMO. To put it simply - many front wheel drive cars rated the same as the Imprezza more easily meet and exceed window sticker estimates when driven the same! And that is CRAP! Should not be the case...FWD vs. AWD should not matter. The rating should matter! They should be rated differently. Misleading and Flat Wrong!! Again IMO
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:51 PM   #260
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There seems to be a lot of stock put in consumer reports as an organization like they are some holy grail. My personal experience being in the A/V profession, and doing it at very high levels, is that I very rarely agree with what they claim. I guarantee I spend more time with a/v equipment than any of the "test engineers" they have there and I have what they do not, accountability. They are not held accountable for their findings or recommendations. I, however as a business owner am accountable to my clients. With regards to automotive, they had reported very poor quality and reliability with the version of corvette I had (C4). That would be the vette I put 195,000 miles on without any issues and routinely got 30+ mpg on highway and high teens in town. My Toyota tacoma's I had ( matching pair of black 4wd ex-cabs) rated very high in reliability according to CR. One of them had tranny issues ( lost 4th gear twice) and my other blew two head gaskets. Toyota finally recalled head gaskets, but point being totally opposite real world results from CR in these two examples. I think the old adage " the one with the gold makes the rules..." Applies here. I would rather take the word of ALMOST anyone on this board over any recommendation CR makes. At least I know there isn't any monetary influence here.
i agree with everything you've said to a point. i used to take CR seriously until i realized that for things i knew a lot about, i disagreed with them.

however, i do think their reliability ratings do stand for something assuming that they get enough responses from their constituents/subscribers, who each year receive a survey. i'm sure one can say that this is not a purely unbiased sampling, but it's better than nothing. it doesn't mean that something that is rated/ranked as reliable is bulletproof. it's data that based on whatever responses they have received.

this, IMHO, is actually somewhat more valuable and useful than their own ratings system, as you suggest which, while trying to unbiased, is limited to their own evaluation criteria and the skill/knowledge of their folks making those evaluations.

in short, as i've gotten older, i've grown more skeptical of reviewers and in the end decide to look carefully at what they say and try to deduce if they hold the same things valuable as me. if they do, i might rely on them. if not, then i won't.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:13 PM   #261
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I totally agree with what you said. I use it as a basis for things I have less than convincing opinions about. My point is just that it seems like a hundred pages of topics mostly ( possibly even loosely) based on a CR study seems a little crazy. I don't know exactly what to expect from my CVT for milage, heck I've had it a week and a half and put 1400 miles on it. I know I bought it because it has a great awd system, sporty, and reliable. I also bought a vehicle in general for better milage than my hemi ram was getting. So I'm very very pleased with the 34 mpg I had from highway, and 32+ from city driving. Is it 36 mpg, no. But as the advertisements say ( or used to anyway) up to 36 mpg on the highway.

Maybe we need a big surgeon general label somewhere telling us minions it just might not get 36 mpg as was tested. Maybe someone can ring up Washington and see if we can waste more tax dollars on that. I research everything before I buy or do anything myself. I knew going in that 30+ might be all I get on the highway. I made the decision for better or worse to buy the Subaru over any other car because it offered more to me than just milage.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:38 PM   #262
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I would rather take the word of ALMOST anyone on this board over any recommendation CR makes. At least I know there isn't any monetary influence here.
This is not a reliability review. As has been said, CR is only as good as the responses to the questionaires they send out anyway.

That said, this is a simple quantitive test, and one should not confuse anecdotes of those with CVT's with the feeble minded support of Subaru of America by those in this CVT thread that drive 5MT's.

The most important and remarkable part of this is the extremely high correlation in precision of the Consumer Reports test with the EPA test. While there is a bias offset, the fact that once that is removed (along with the Subarus) the two tests, while offset, are within +/- 1.5 mpg for 11 different vehicles. We could not even get anywhere near that close here with 11 different drivers of the same vehicle!

In fact, the 11 non-Subarus have a standard deviation of 1.19 mpg from their average of less than 30 mpg, which means that the Impreza at "36 mpg" comes out as one in 5 million away from the others. Quite optimistic at least, wouldn't you say?
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:39 PM   #263
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The new epa label emphasizes 30mpg...and I think most in combined conditions are beating that
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:45 PM   #264
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The new epa label emphasizes 30mpg...and I think most in combined conditions are beating that
+1

Just looked at my window sticker, and it was 30 avg. I also looked at the window sticker on my z-71 Tahoe too. It said 14 city and 18 hwy. then said reports to the EPA were from 11-17 city and 15-21 hwy. so they took an avg from that range.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #265
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I know I bought it because it has a great awd system, sporty, and reliable. I also bought a vehicle in general for better milage than my hemi ram was getting.
I agree with your first sentence here. However, I came from the opposite direction. I already had a car that was rated at 36 mpg highway EPA, but with a new extended commute wanted a replacement since my Corolla had over 200k miles on it. Unfortunately the Impreza gets nowhere near the highway mpg that the Corolla gets (currently about 8 mpg less with the same commute), even though they are rated the same.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:00 PM   #266
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The new epa label emphasizes 30mpg...and I think most in combined conditions are beating that
I'm not, I do significantly more hwy than city and have only reached 30mpg once! (all hand calc) Oh man that was a good day with my imprezza.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:18 PM   #267
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I'm not, I do significantly more hwy than city and have only reached 30mpg once! (all hand calc) Oh man that was a good day with my imprezza.
I know we do not need to use higher octane rating than 87, but I've ran 91 from signal stations that had zero ethanol in the 91 octane and have had over 30 in all but my first tank ( hand calc). Maybe my car is different or something. I know from my truck that I was better off spending more per gallon with the same 91 oct than the cheaper 87 from a ROI standpoint.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #268
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I agree with your first sentence here. However, I came from the opposite direction. I already had a car that was rated at 36 mpg highway EPA, but with a new extended commute wanted a replacement since my Corolla had over 200k miles on it. Unfortunately the Impreza gets nowhere near the highway mpg that the Corolla gets (currently about 8 mpg less with the same commute), even though they are rated the same.
My neighbor has a 5-speed corolla which inspired me to get a more fuel efficient car as well. So I understand where you are coming from. I did realize that by getting the impreza due to the awd that it might not be the most fuel efficient car I could buy, but with all features considered I felt it was my best choice. I needed the room, and had to have an awd period. It seemed to be the best choice. I deal with so many people with work that I adopted the "trust but verify" mentality.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:42 PM   #269
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My neighbor has a 5-speed corolla which inspired me to get a more fuel efficient car as well. So I understand where you are coming from. I did realize that by getting the impreza due to the awd that it might not be the most fuel efficient car I could buy, but with all features considered I felt it was my best choice. I needed the room, and had to have an awd period. It seemed to be the best choice. I deal with so many people with work that I adopted the "trust but verify" mentality.
You can download the EPA mpg figures from here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

and you can see that identical models with AWD and 2WD get different mpg numbers - same engine, transmission, etc. just with AWD or 2WD. That means that the adjustment for the different drivetrains is already compensated for, so any vehicle rated at 36 mpg highway should get the same mpg under the same highway conditions.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #270
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You can download the EPA mpg figures from here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

and you can see that identical models with AWD and 2WD get different mpg numbers - same engine, transmission, etc. just with AWD or 2WD. That means that the adjustment for the different drivetrains is already compensated for, so any vehicle rated at 36 mpg highway should get the same mpg under the same highway conditions.
I'm good.

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Old 05-02-2013, 10:12 AM   #271
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You can download the EPA mpg figures from here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

and you can see that identical models with AWD and 2WD get different mpg numbers - same engine, transmission, etc. just with AWD or 2WD. That means that the adjustment for the different drivetrains is already compensated for, so any vehicle rated at 36 mpg highway should get the same mpg under the same highway conditions.
I don't think anyone disagrees with you here. However the tests performed by the epa (or the those done by the automaker) don't test every flavor of every vehicle. We've all seen the video where Todd Hill, Subarus north american marketing guy, says the little nubs on the roof rack of a sport model "add 1mpg". To normal people that sounds like magic. To a sales/marketing guy it's as close to the truth as they're willing to get. The truth is that in an epa test those little nubs makes the merest fractionof a difference in epa calculations to go from one whole number to the next. It's like the nubs bump it from 35.499 to 35.501 and therefore the rounding says it's 36. (Or however they do it).

So different model flavors will have slightly different results. I would expect that a cvt car with roof rack and 17s would perform slightly worse than a base cvt with steelies.

I'm not making excuses. I agree the game is being played.

Has the EPA gotten back to you yet? I haven't gotten a response to any of several.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #272
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I posted this on another thread in response to a troll, but it applies here so will post it here too:

I switched cars this week for a mpg test. I got on the freeway and set the cruise control to the mode of the traffic speed (the speed at which the highest percentage of the traffic is flowing) which is typically 80 mph and with my 36 mpg EPA highway rated 5 speed Corolla on my two way trip I got 39.5 mpg. The next day I did the same with the Impreza, also rated at 36 mpg highway EPA. I got 28 mpg. And I really tried, by switching to manual mode and allowing it to slow going up hills, to maximize the mpg.

I also noticed something else - my Corolla, in 5th gear (which is all it has) climbs hills better than my CVT in 5th (of 6) gear.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #273
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Has the EPA gotten back to you yet? I haven't gotten a response to any of several.
Yes, they like my math too It's a slow process though...
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:02 AM   #274
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I posted this on another thread in response to a troll, but it applies here so will post it here too:

I switched cars this week for a mpg test. I got on the freeway and set the cruise control to the mode of the traffic speed (the speed at which the highest percentage of the traffic is flowing) which is typically 80 mph and with my 36 mpg EPA highway rated 5 speed Corolla on my two way trip I got 39.5 mpg. The next day I did the same with the Impreza, also rated at 36 mpg highway EPA. I got 28 mpg. And I really tried, by switching to manual mode and allowing it to slow going up hills, to maximize the mpg.

I also noticed something else - my Corolla, in 5th gear (which is all it has) climbs hills better than my CVT in 5th (of 6) gear.
I'm calling bull**** or you have no oil or something.

I got 44mpg over a 10 mile stretch of highway going 75 without cruise control yesterday.

And I once traveled over 100 miles with 20% city driving and 80% 65mph highway driving and gotten 42mpg. Again no cruise control.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:09 AM   #275
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I don't think anyone disagrees with you here. However the tests performed by the epa (or the those done by the automaker) don't test every flavor of every vehicle. We've all seen the video where Todd Hill, Subarus north american marketing guy, says the little nubs on the roof rack of a sport model "add 1mpg". To normal people that sounds like magic. To a sales/marketing guy it's as close to the truth as they're willing to get. The truth is that in an epa test those little nubs makes the merest fractionof a difference in epa calculations to go from one whole number to the next. It's like the nubs bump it from 35.499 to 35.501 and therefore the rounding says it's 36. (Or however they do it).

So different model flavors will have slightly different results. I would expect that a cvt car with roof rack and 17s would perform slightly worse than a base cvt with steelies.

I'm not making excuses. I agree the game is being played.

Has the EPA gotten back to you yet? I haven't gotten a response to any of several.
Another A+ post filled with bull****. Those roof "nubs" are on every 5 door, not just the sport. And they weren't on the roof rack. Also that little 35.49 to 35.51 thing has been posted more than enough in the mpg thread.
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