Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday September 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #1
warpath
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84622
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: -=OT B-Lister=-
Vehicle:
2010 EVO X GSR
1992 MKIII Supra

Default BMW may not bring next 1-Series to U.S.

Leftlane: http://cdn4.leftlanenews.com/photos/.../noone_653.jpg



Quote:
Although BMW has rarely hesitated to enter new niches in the past – witness the X6 and the 5-Series Gran Turismo – the automaker is not yet sure whether it will follow the lead of its German rivals by diving into the emerging entry-luxury segment in the United States.



The third-generation, front-wheel-drive 1-Series currently under development for other markets would serve as a logical rival to the upcoming Mercedes-Benz CLA-Class and Audi A3, but it may not make it to the U.S. for several reasons.

For starters, blue roundel executives are concerned that a new compact BMW model with a starting MSRP just below $30,000 could steal buyers away from MINI, which does a fair amount of business in that price territory. Overlap between the two brands could become even more of an issue in the future if MINI’s rumored sedan model makes it to production.

Additionally, the costs associated with exporting the lower-priced next-gen 1-Series from Europe may not make U.S. sales a financially attractive proposition, according to a Car and Driver report.

As a result, BMW is planning to keep a close eye on how the CLA and A3 fare in the U.S. before deciding whether it will bring the new 1-Series stateside.

In the meantime, the automaker is dipping its toes in the entry-luxury waters with the X1 subcompact crossover and the new 320i. Coupe, convertible and Gran Coupe versions of the second-generation, rear-drive 1-Series – which is currently offered only in global markets – are also expected to launch soon wearing new 2-Series badging, although they will likely be more expensive than the CLA and A3.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
warpath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #2
SWP n Gold
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 110783
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
2010 WRX
Satin White Pearl

Default

Current US 1-series is becoming the 2-series and I doubt we'll get Europe's 1-series here.
SWP n Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 04:29 PM   #3
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Meh, if it would be the FWD platform, I don't care.

It's sad though that the smallest decent performing BMW we'll be able to buy will by a severly bloated 3/4 series (although if they keep the 2 here, that won't be true). I confused the new 3 with a 5 series almost every day.

A RWD 1 series hatch would have sold here.
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 04:33 PM   #4
Len
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39937
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2011 328i 6MT
LMB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
I confused the new 3 with a 5 series almost every day.
From the back, they are very difficult to distinguish. The tail light design is almost identical. And even on the inside, the new 3 has almost as much legroom as the 5.
Len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #5
WYC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355360
Join Date: May 2013
Default

I won't miss it much
WYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 07:06 AM   #6
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

*uncaring shrug*

Gotta keep those Mini margins high.
Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 10:09 PM   #7
Dex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163775
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ceti Debent
Vehicle:
2014 Ford Party ST
Dudebro red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
*uncaring shrug*

Ditto, BMW's have just gotten too big and bloated to really register in my care meter these days. Plus, car manufactures are making it easier and easier to be content with stuff in a much lower price range, I rather use the money for travel anyhow.
Dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 10:13 AM   #8
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 WRX LTD Wagon
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Meh, if it would be the FWD platform, I don't care.

It's sad though that the smallest decent performing BMW we'll be able to buy will by a severly bloated 3/4 series (although if they keep the 2 here, that won't be true). I confused the new 3 with a 5 series almost every day.

A RWD 1 series hatch would have sold here.
I'm not sure it would sell well, but I'd give it a very serious look. A practical BRZ-like vehicle would be at the top of my list. Maybe Subarota will make the shooting brake version someone posted a pic of around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
From the back, they are very difficult to distinguish. The tail light design is almost identical. And even on the inside, the new 3 has almost as much legroom as the 5.
Yea, the new 3 actually slots between the E39 and E60 5 series in size. It's officially become too big for my taste. ATS FTW.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....17509&id=22789

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
Ditto, BMW's have just gotten too big and bloated to really register in my care meter these days. Plus, car manufactures are making it easier and easier to be content with stuff in a much lower price range, I rather use the money for travel anyhow.
Agreed. With how good cars like the Focus are these days it's hard to justify a Bimmer. A Focus Titanium compares pretty well to a $50k luxury car in terms of features. The only "luxury" features which are still exclusive to luxury brands these days are of the electro-nanny sort (active steering, lane departure, pre-braking) which most of us don't want any way. The only thing that's left is RWD, which is important, but doesn't quite clear the value hurdle for me these days. I guess I'm getting old...
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Agreed. With how good cars like the Focus are these days it's hard to justify a Bimmer. A Focus Titanium compares pretty well to a $50k luxury car in terms of features. The only "luxury" features which are still exclusive to luxury brands these days are of the electro-nanny sort (active steering, lane departure, pre-braking) which most of us don't want any way. The only thing that's left is RWD, which is important, but doesn't quite clear the value hurdle for me these days. I guess I'm getting old...
You're confusing luxury with technology. It's not uncommon, since a lot of technology premiers on luxury cars.

Technology is not luxury.

Hand stitched leather made from really soft cows that were raised in some really remote area is luxury.

A clock in the dash that says BULOVA on it and has gears made from titanium is luxury.

Hand polished wood interior trim made from some really exotic tree from a rain forest is luxury.

bluetooth connectivity is not luxury.

auto headlamps are not luxury.

auto wipers are not luxury.

The key to remember here is, would the wife of an oil baron, or railroad tycoon enjoy explaining to her equally opulent friends at the squash court how easy her phone pairs via bluetooth in her new Ford Focus, or how soft the leather trim is on her perfectly manicured hands in her new Rolls Royce Phantom?

Last edited by samagon; 05-06-2013 at 11:33 AM.
samagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Perfectly explained, samagon.


The materials used inside a USDM Bimmer are so much better quality than a Focus Titanium, it's ridiculous to compare them. Still, a 3 or 5 series is a 'premium' car.. not a luxury car.

Lexus, BMW and M-B would love for you to think that they build luxury cars and sell them for $50k.. but they don't. They sell premium cars at those price points.. they're a step above the tinny entry level, consumer-grade cars made by Honda, GM, Subaru and Toyota.. but they still aren't luxury.


It's nearly impossible to find a genuine leather interior in a sub $50k car. The 'leather' found in most mass-produced cars today (that people claim is so easy to clean and so much better than vinyl or cloth) is a "coated leather", which is a layer of textured vinyl over low grade cow hide.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #11
Len
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39937
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2011 328i 6MT
LMB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Perfectly explained, samagon.


The materials used inside a USDM Bimmer are so much better quality than a Focus Titanium, it's ridiculous to compare them. Still, a 3 or 5 series is a 'premium' car.. not a luxury car.

Lexus, BMW and M-B would love for you to think that they build luxury cars and sell them for $50k.. but they don't. They sell premium cars at those price points.. they're a step above the tinny entry level, consumer-grade cars made by Honda, GM, Subaru and Toyota.. but they still aren't luxury.


It's nearly impossible to find a genuine leather interior in a sub $50k car. The 'leather' found in most mass-produced cars today (that people claim is so easy to clean and so much better than vinyl or cloth) is a "coated leather", which is a layer of textured vinyl over low grade cow hide.
Agreed. While it is possible to get uncoated "semi-anilne" leather in some lower level lexus (like the RX cross-over, I think), in general all you get is either pleather or coated leather for cars under $50K. Still, as you said, the premium cars do offer better material quality overall. It isn't so much that any one piece of plastic in a BMW is dramatically better than the best you can find in a focus, but that you will find far fewer areas that feel cheap. Of course this only matters if you are a dash poker like me.

But I still think the point about the proliferation of technology is a valid one. Even until very recently, you had to pony up for a premium brand to get not only better material, but also advanced technologies, such as vehicle stability control. But the trend seems to be to outsource just about everything but the chassis and the engine, and this makes it far easier for mainstream companies with large volume to offer basically same technology as the premium cars.

Take a look at the tech list for the Fusion. It has blind spot monitoring, radar cruise control, active lane keeping assist, active high beam assist, voice everything, self-parking system that apparently works better than the ones in luxury cars, etc etc. And this isn't an exception, the Altima is pretty much the same way. Just about the only features I can think of in BMWs or Mercedes under $60K that are missing in a Fusion are head-up display and night-vision assist. And as far as I can recall, this type of availability of state of the art technologies in a family sedan is something very new. And I think this does make it tougher for the premium brand to market their cars in the long run.
Len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #12
s3cf
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 165586
Join Date: Nov 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
I confused the new 3 with a 5 series almost every day.
cant agree more
s3cf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 02:39 PM   #13
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Agreed. While it is possible to get uncoated "semi-anilne" leather in some lower level lexus (like the RX cross-over, I think), in general all you get is either pleather or coated leather for cars under $50K.
I'm pretty sure you can get real leather in some of the more expensive MINI packages... putting them in the sub-$30 range on a non-S Cooper.. but it takes a special buyer to recognize that package's value.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #14
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I'm pretty sure you can get real leather in some of the more expensive MINI packages... putting them in the sub-$30 range on a non-S Cooper.. but it takes a special buyer to recognize that package's value.
*snort*
Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #15
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 WRX LTD Wagon
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
You're confusing luxury with technology. It's not uncommon, since a lot of technology premiers on luxury cars.

Technology is not luxury.

Hand stitched leather made from really soft cows that were raised in some really remote area is luxury.

A clock in the dash that says BULOVA on it and has gears made from titanium is luxury.

Hand polished wood interior trim made from some really exotic tree from a rain forest is luxury.

bluetooth connectivity is not luxury.

auto headlamps are not luxury.

auto wipers are not luxury.

The key to remember here is, would the wife of an oil baron, or railroad tycoon enjoy explaining to her equally opulent friends at the squash court how easy her phone pairs via bluetooth in her new Ford Focus, or how soft the leather trim is on her perfectly manicured hands in her new Rolls Royce Phantom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Perfectly explained, samagon.


The materials used inside a USDM Bimmer are so much better quality than a Focus Titanium, it's ridiculous to compare them. Still, a 3 or 5 series is a 'premium' car.. not a luxury car.

Lexus, BMW and M-B would love for you to think that they build luxury cars and sell them for $50k.. but they don't. They sell premium cars at those price points.. they're a step above the tinny entry level, consumer-grade cars made by Honda, GM, Subaru and Toyota.. but they still aren't luxury.


It's nearly impossible to find a genuine leather interior in a sub $50k car. The 'leather' found in most mass-produced cars today (that people claim is so easy to clean and so much better than vinyl or cloth) is a "coated leather", which is a layer of textured vinyl over low grade cow hide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Agreed. While it is possible to get uncoated "semi-anilne" leather in some lower level lexus (like the RX cross-over, I think), in general all you get is either pleather or coated leather for cars under $50K. Still, as you said, the premium cars do offer better material quality overall. It isn't so much that any one piece of plastic in a BMW is dramatically better than the best you can find in a focus, but that you will find far fewer areas that feel cheap. Of course this only matters if you are a dash poker like me.

But I still think the point about the proliferation of technology is a valid one. Even until very recently, you had to pony up for a premium brand to get not only better material, but also advanced technologies, such as vehicle stability control. But the trend seems to be to outsource just about everything but the chassis and the engine, and this makes it far easier for mainstream companies with large volume to offer basically same technology as the premium cars.

Take a look at the tech list for the Fusion. It has blind spot monitoring, radar cruise control, active lane keeping assist, active high beam assist, voice everything, self-parking system that apparently works better than the ones in luxury cars, etc etc. And this isn't an exception, the Altima is pretty much the same way. Just about the only features I can think of in BMWs or Mercedes under $60K that are missing in a Fusion are head-up display and night-vision assist. And as far as I can recall, this type of availability of state of the art technologies in a family sedan is something very new. And I think this does make it tougher for the premium brand to market their cars in the long run.
Christ, you guys need a life if you're arguing over the difference between "premium" and "luxury".

It's like I'm talking cars with my brother's kids or something.

My point, as Len finally got around to understanding, is that the things which make a car function better as a car have proliferated down the automotive food chain.

It used to be economy cars were horrid, floppy, buzzy, miserable places to go about the business of driving. Today, cars like the Focus are quiet, refined, handle well and have all the convenience features you need. Doubling the amount you spend on a car today buys you much less incremental value than it used to.

"Permium" car buyers talk about materials "quality" as if they spend their time fondling the dashboard and staring at the birds-eye maple rather than actually driving the car.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.