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Old 05-09-2013, 06:36 AM   #1
cjayh85
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Default Advice on sub size?

After searching google and the forum I couldn't find anything relevant to the advice I could use. When I upgrade my speakers I plan to also install a sub, and am debating between a 10" for space saving or 12" for possibly better low end response. What I have in mind for speakers will be Morel Maximo comps, amp will be mb quart oa800.4 and drive comps and sub since the rms outputs are perfectly matched to speakers and sub, which will be a Pioneer champion series.

I'm open to suggestions on different subs that would take 400w RMS at 4 ohms and could outperform the Pioneer without spending much more than $100. I'm not looking to draw attention, just get a full sound in my car. Might be unneeded info but I'm putting foil and foam sound deadening/damping materials from Raammat in my doors, rear shelf, and trunk as I upgrade.

I'm curious if with a crossover of 50hz I should be able to use a 10 or would a 12 be better? I've had a 10" Infinity sub before, and it seemed much more powerful above 30hz even though it was rated to 20hz. Knowing there are many influences on response I'd really like to get down to 20hz this time. Sub would be in a sealed box at optimum listed volume.
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Last edited by cjayh85; 05-09-2013 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:53 AM   #2
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You probably want a 12". My previous car, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, had a 10" woofer. Plenty of vibration but it couldn't hit the low frequencies very well. Two extra inches in diameter gives you more force to push air--and better sound. You might as well go big or go home because if you do a 10" then you might regret it in the future.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #3
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Sub size has NOTHING at all to do with what a sub will sound like. If you buy a 10" sub with a store-bought prefab box, then yes, a 10" wont sound as good as a 12".

A sub will only sound as good as the enclosure lets it sound. My advice to you (and ANYONE) is to base your audio build on trunk space, then have an enclosure professionally designed, and build it yourself.

Two 12" subs may NOT get as loud as a singe 12" sub. The average 12" sub calls for a box with a net volume of 1.5cubic feet. The average prefab box for a single 12" sub is 1.2cubic feet with a port tuning of 50hz. A smaller box with a small amount of port area will cause the sub to sound peaky around 50-70hz, and will sound like junk on the notes that REALLY count (30-45hz). Playing a subwoofer below port tuning may also cause your sub to blow. By building a larger box (1.5-2cubic feet), adding more port area (14-16sq inches per cubic foot) with a longer port (tuned below 40hz), will allow your sub to get louder on the low notes and gain substantial amounts of sound quality.

If you need a box design, hit me up. I've been building boxes and installing audio for over 6 years.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:24 PM   #4
cjayh85
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Thank you for the info, it should help a lot! I'd looked up the specs for the 12" Pioneer I'm considering and it's optimal sealed box volume is listed at 1.25ft3. I was able to find a cheap but apparently well made (to my admittedly untrained eye) prefab box with 1.5ft3 pre-lined with polyfill, and figured after sub displacement it should be right around the optimal volume. Your opinions on it would be helpful, as well as anything you'd do different from that box. I'm not very keen on ports, FYI, I prefer the sound of a sealed box.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-MDFS1215.html

I am open to making a box and porting it if I can tune it lowwwwww, but the box above seems to fit the bill nicely so far and if I can keep things relatively simple I'd like to. Thanks again for input!

Last edited by cjayh85; 05-09-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #5
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see, you must have never heard a custom designed/built ported box then. If you have, i'm 100% sure you'd prefer a low tuned ported box over a sealed box. Lower tuning increases sound quality and will flatten out the response curve (meaning 30hz will hit just as hard as 50 hz, sub will hit all notes. The problem with a sealed box is, the response drops off on the low notes.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #6
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materials to build your own box only cost about 30-40 bucks. i will make a design for free.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:11 PM   #7
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I had a phoenix gold rsdc 12 in a 1cu ft sealed box with 400w rms, and it sounded good and loud enough, in an suv. I had two JBL 12s in 1.5cu ft each sealed running off the same amp and they sounded great. You can find subs designed for small sealed enclosures that sound as good as ported, and don't have terrible low frequency output. The ported box will almost always be louder and will "hit" harder around the box tuning frequency, but sealed isn't a bad choice if space is a concern. Just don't buy a sub designed to go in a huge ported box and put it in a small sealed box, because the result will not be what you want.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:39 AM   #8
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http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com...-e-series.html

This does good ported in about 2 cubic ft and a 4"dia 17" long port. Or a 1" x 15" x 20" long port. I bet it would blow that pioneer out of the water in terms of every desirable parameter.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18abVFL View Post
see, you must have never heard a custom designed/built ported box then. If you have, i'm 100% sure you'd prefer a low tuned ported box over a sealed box. Lower tuning increases sound quality and will flatten out the response curve (meaning 30hz will hit just as hard as 50 hz, sub will hit all notes. The problem with a sealed box is, the response drops off on the low notes.
You're right, to my knowledge I haven't heard a custom box. I really appreciate your offer to design one I could build, and I didn't think I could do it that cheaply, so I'm quite interested. Pioneer doesn't list vented box specs, but I'm strongly considering Not-EWRX's suggestion for a Sundown E series sub and it suggests a ported box with 1.5-2ft^3 tuned to 35hz. I could wire the dual 2 ohm version to be compatible with the 4 ohm load my intended amp requires and still perfectly match the RMS watts, so it definitely peaks my interest.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #10
cjayh85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18abVFL View Post
Sub size has NOTHING at all to do with what a sub will sound like. If you buy a 10" sub with a store-bought prefab box, then yes, a 10" wont sound as good as a 12".

A sub will only sound as good as the enclosure lets it sound. My advice to you (and ANYONE) is to base your audio build on trunk space, then have an enclosure professionally designed, and build it yourself.

Two 12" subs may NOT get as loud as a singe 12" sub. The average 12" sub calls for a box with a net volume of 1.5cubic feet. The average prefab box for a single 12" sub is 1.2cubic feet with a port tuning of 50hz. A smaller box with a small amount of port area will cause the sub to sound peaky around 50-70hz, and will sound like junk on the notes that REALLY count (30-45hz). Playing a subwoofer below port tuning may also cause your sub to blow. By building a larger box (1.5-2cubic feet), adding more port area (14-16sq inches per cubic foot) with a longer port (tuned below 40hz), will allow your sub to get louder on the low notes and gain substantial amounts of sound quality.

If you need a box design, hit me up. I've been building boxes and installing audio for over 6 years.
It occurred to me I haven't mentioned trunk space. I was planning to put the box far up in the trunk against the back seat, so if the box is wider than it is deep that would be nice for space. I think around 1' deep shouldn't take up too much room, and the amp will go under my driver's seat if it'll fit.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjayh85 View Post
You're right, to my knowledge I haven't heard a custom box. I really appreciate your offer to design one I could build, and I didn't think I could do it that cheaply, so I'm quite interested. Pioneer doesn't list vented box specs, but I'm strongly considering Not-EWRX's suggestion for a Sundown E series sub and it suggests a ported box with 1.5-2ft^3 tuned to 35hz. I could wire the dual 2 ohm version to be compatible with the 4 ohm load my intended amp requires and still perfectly match the RMS watts, so it definitely peaks my interest.
If you want more help, I can run box calculations for you. I'm considering the same sub. It does well in a small ported enclosure which is hard to find.

I could also help with a sloping box design. I did the same thing for my wifes Impreza.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
If you want more help, I can run box calculations for you. I'm considering the same sub. It does well in a small ported enclosure which is hard to find.

I could also help with a sloping box design. I did the same thing for my wifes Impreza.
Thanks, that would be cool. Just for fun I googled sub box calculator and found this site that can calculate for a ported box among others. http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm I wonder how your calculations would differ from it's, I'd like to stay around 1.5-1.75 ft^3 since you said the sub does well in smaller enclosures and minimum volume is listed at 1.5. I've heard larger size can extend low end response, and planned to tune the port to 25hz.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:13 AM   #13
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I have a Boston Acoustic g5 10" sub. It is in a sealed box that is 1 cubic foot. Very small. It sounds great in the car, compliments but doesn't over power. When I have the volume up at 8/10 it is hardly noticeable outside the car at an intersection. I have no sound deadening, the car muffles it pretty well. I could post a pic of my tiny box

Edit: it is sealed box. Also, G5 is discontinued, but a similar setup should yield similar results.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:55 PM   #14
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:25 PM   #15
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Shouldn't matter to much just depends if you actually want to save a little space or not.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:14 PM   #16
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I've got a pair of CDT-8's in a sealed box, I like them just fine. Who said you need 10" or larger for big sound?

Most times, I start with XMAX, then work my way eventually looking at the woofer diameter. I want to move air, lots of it; in the amount of space I'm confined to.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
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So where would the overkill line be? Would it be based on my car's volume in general? Cause I have a 2 door 98 Impreza and looking to put some subs in. I have 2 Rockford 10's but am curious if thats too much for my car lol.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perikirest View Post
So where would the overkill line be? Would it be based on my car's volume in general? Cause I have a 2 door 98 Impreza and looking to put some subs in. I have 2 Rockford 10's but am curious if thats too much for my car lol.
I'd say overkill would be if your trunk rattles on it's hinges. That level of bass always fails to impress me at any rate, and is usually quite the cop magnet too.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #19
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I'm very happy with 1 jl 10w0 v3 and 100 watt rms.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:00 AM   #20
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Some of the best sound I've ever heard coming from and subs came from a pair of JL Audio 8W3's. when I first heard them I thought they were 12's until he opened the trunk. I know they are more expensive than some other manufacturers but the sound quality is phenomenal.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourmicah View Post
Some of the best sound I've ever heard coming from and subs came from a pair of JL Audio 8W3's. when I first heard them I thought they were 12's until he opened the trunk. I know they are more expensive than some other manufacturers but the sound quality is phenomenal.
This. I'm all about SQ on a budget and JL has never let me down.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:56 AM   #22
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I remember being told a while back that <12 will give you a tighter "punch" kind of bass while >12 will give you more of the reverberating bass. I personally ran three 10s in my wagon. Another thing to keep in mind is the power rating between the sub(s) and amp(s)
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #23
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For any system the enclosure makes up 70% of the sound that the subwoofer is going to create.
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