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Old 05-22-2013, 05:45 PM   #26
bluesubie
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Originally Posted by kabz View Post
Just what the dealer threw in on my free oil change schedule. Hopefully it's the Subaru Synthetic 5W30, per warranty requirements.
You're probably not going to get the Subaru oil for free, but you can just ask what they use. You don't have to use Subaru oil for warranty requirements.

-Dennis
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:57 PM   #27
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I just recently put a rebuilt ej251 block and phase 1 2.2 heads with delta 230 hp cams into my 96 impreza 5 spd wagon. I put in supertech 10w40 with 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive and let it idle for around 10 to 15 minutes right after start up to watch for any leaks and funny noises. Took the car out and preceded to break it in using 2nd gear pulls and a few 3rd gear pulls with engine breaking in between pulls. Put 18 miles on the engine and came back and changed the oil right away due to time and being at night with supertech 10w40 and purelator PL14460 white oil filter with another 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive. Let it idle for 5 minutes then took it out and did more 2nd and 3rd gear pulls and engine breaking on the way back to the house.

Changed the oil at around 650 miles and decided to try the supertech hm 10w40 (purelator white PL14460 oil filter) and added 2-3 oz of the lucas ZDDP. Put maybe 75 miles on it before taking around a 600 mile trip mostly freeway driving at around 75 mph and times to 85 mph. Was varying speed at times when I could and such. I have a bit over 1000 miles on the supertech hm 10w40 right now and going to be switching over to valvoline maxlife 10w40 high mileage here shortly. I had added like 1/4 quart in between the first and 2nd oil change but haven't since then. The oil level has been solid at the full line. I have 0.002 bearing clearances so hence the 10w40 if you guys were wondering...

Any way, when do you think I should change the supertech hm out? Maybe another 500 miles or right away? I do mostly city driving and some highway and some 50 mph runs now but try and drive long enough so the oil gets up to operating temp. Going to run the maxlife 10w40 HM for maybe (2 or 3) 2.5k oci's and then switch over to the T-6 5w40. So, a total of maybe 7500 - 10k miles before switching to synthetic.

But, why I am posting is that I just sent a request to Blackstone for an oil analysis sample kit and will be sending in a sample of the supertech hm 10w40 here soon and will be posting the results here.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by subi400 View Post
I just recently put a rebuilt ej251 block and phase 1 2.2 heads with delta 230 hp cams into my 96 impreza 5 spd wagon. I put in supertech 10w40 with 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive and let it idle for around 10 to 15 minutes right after start up to watch for any leaks and funny noises. Took the car out and preceded to break it in using 2nd gear pulls and a few 3rd gear pulls with engine breaking in between pulls. Put 18 miles on the engine and came back and changed the oil right away due to time and being at night with supertech 10w40 and purelator PL14460 white oil filter with another 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive. Let it idle for 5 minutes then took it out and did more 2nd and 3rd gear pulls and engine breaking on the way back to the house.

Changed the oil at around 650 miles and decided to try the supertech hm 10w40 (purelator white PL14460 oil filter) and added 2-3 oz of the lucas ZDDP. Put maybe 75 miles on it before taking around a 600 mile trip mostly freeway driving at around 75 mph and times to 85 mph. Was varying speed at times when I could and such. I have a bit over 1000 miles on the supertech hm 10w40 right now and going to be switching over to valvoline maxlife 10w40 high mileage here shortly. I had added like 1/4 quart in between the first and 2nd oil change but haven't since then. The oil level has been solid at the full line. I have 0.002 bearing clearances so hence the 10w40 if you guys were wondering...

Any way, when do you think I should change the supertech hm out? Maybe another 500 miles or right away? I do mostly city driving and some highway and some 50 mph runs now but try and drive long enough so the oil gets up to operating temp. Going to run the maxlife 10w40 HM for maybe (2 or 3) 2.5k oci's and then switch over to the T-6 5w40. So, a total of maybe 7500 - 10k miles before switching to synthetic.

But, why I am posting is that I just sent a request to Blackstone for an oil analysis sample kit and will be sending in a sample of the supertech hm 10w40 here soon and will be posting the results here.
IMO, you're fine leaving the ST in for another 500 miles or so.

-Dennis
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
IMO, you're fine leaving the ST in for another 500 miles or so.

-Dennis
Hi Dennis, yeah I saw a VOA on the supertech 10w40 hm and it is not that bad of an oil Definitely good for around 2.5k - 3k oci's.

Had this crazy idea of running 3 quarts M1 0w40 and 2 quarts redline 0w40 to up the moly count. You know of anyone that has done this combo or similar?
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by subi400 View Post

Hi Dennis, yeah I saw a VOA on the supertech 10w40 hm and it is not that bad of an oil Definitely good for around 2.5k - 3k oci's.

Had this crazy idea of running 3 quarts M1 0w40 and 2 quarts redline 0w40 to up the moly count. You know of anyone that has done this combo or similar?
Maybe, but I'm not sure. I believe some people at bitog may do it. I do see uoa's at bitog where people run Red Line street oil and boost it with a quart of the RL race oil. I believe that M1 0W-40 uses the new "trimer" moly where lower doses of it are supposed to have the same anti-friction and anti-wear affect as high doses of the old stuff found in race oils, Subaru factory fill, etc.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2265014


http://www.infineum.com/Documents/Cr...ogy%202009.pdf

-Dennis
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by subi400 View Post
I just recently put a rebuilt ej251 block and phase 1 2.2 heads with delta 230 hp cams into my 96 impreza 5 spd wagon. I put in supertech 10w40 with 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive and let it idle for around 10 to 15 minutes right after start up to watch for any leaks and funny noises. Took the car out and preceded to break it in using 2nd gear pulls and a few 3rd gear pulls with engine breaking in between pulls. Put 18 miles on the engine and came back and changed the oil right away due to time and being at night with supertech 10w40 and purelator PL14460 white oil filter with another 4 oz of lucas ZDDP additive. Let it idle for 5 minutes then took it out and did more 2nd and 3rd gear pulls and engine breaking on the way back to the house.

Changed the oil at around 650 miles and decided to try the supertech hm 10w40 (purelator white PL14460 oil filter) and added 2-3 oz of the lucas ZDDP. Put maybe 75 miles on it before taking around a 600 mile trip mostly freeway driving at around 75 mph and times to 85 mph. Was varying speed at times when I could and such. I have a bit over 1000 miles on the supertech hm 10w40 right now and going to be switching over to valvoline maxlife 10w40 high mileage here shortly. I had added like 1/4 quart in between the first and 2nd oil change but haven't since then. The oil level has been solid at the full line. I have 0.002 bearing clearances so hence the 10w40 if you guys were wondering...

Any way, when do you think I should change the supertech hm out? Maybe another 500 miles or right away? I do mostly city driving and some highway and some 50 mph runs now but try and drive long enough so the oil gets up to operating temp. Going to run the maxlife 10w40 HM for maybe (2 or 3) 2.5k oci's and then switch over to the T-6 5w40. So, a total of maybe 7500 - 10k miles before switching to synthetic.

But, why I am posting is that I just sent a request to Blackstone for an oil analysis sample kit and will be sending in a sample of the supertech hm 10w40 here soon and will be posting the results here.
Given you've already changed it twice and have gone through a good break-in procedure, I see no reason not to let the current fill go to 3k mi or more. It actually takes a few miles for the additive package to activate, so changing oil too often increases wear. Take a look at the break-in UOAs recently posted around here, they're not nearly as scary as you might think.

Per Honda's recommendation I left the factory fill in my 2011 Civic for the full OCI (~6,000 mi). No problems. Two years later the car doesn't burn a drop of oil. Search for the UOA on BITOG under my same username.
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:20 PM   #32
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You're probably not going to get the Subaru oil for free, but you can just ask what they use. You don't have to use Subaru oil for warranty requirements.

-Dennis
Heh, actually they did, Googling the SOA part number SOA868V9280 (x5) from the $0.00 invoice goes straight to:

Amazon.com: Subaru SAE 5w-30 Subaru Synthetic Motor Oil - Quart Bottle, SOA868V9280: AutomotiveAmazon.com: Subaru SAE 5w-30 Subaru Synthetic Motor Oil - Quart Bottle, SOA868V9280: Automotive


I think I get 4 oil changes like this. Nice. To be honest, I'd be surprised if they used anything but the official stuff. I'm looking forward to the next UOA. Car running real nice, as it should be.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

Given you've already changed it twice and have gone through a good break-in procedure, I see no reason not to let the current fill go to 3k mi or more. It actually takes a few miles for the additive package to activate, so changing oil too often increases wear. Take a look at the break-in UOAs recently posted around here, they're not nearly as scary as you might think.

Per Honda's recommendation I left the factory fill in my 2011 Civic for the full OCI (~6,000 mi). No problems. Two years later the car doesn't burn a drop of oil. Search for the UOA on BITOG under my same username.


Wait so changing oil too soon increases wear? I've always changed my oil ever 2500 miles or so.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:08 AM   #34
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Wait so changing oil too soon increases wear?
Possibly. If you do a uoa at 1k, 2k, 3k, and 4k, the first one or two uoa's could show higher wear.

Used oil better than new.

-Dennis
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:15 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Given you've already changed it twice and have gone through a good break-in procedure, I see no reason not to let the current fill go to 3k mi or more. It actually takes a few miles for the additive package to activate, so changing oil too often increases wear. Take a look at the break-in UOAs recently posted around here, they're not nearly as scary as you might think.

Per Honda's recommendation I left the factory fill in my 2011 Civic for the full OCI (~6,000 mi). No problems. Two years later the car doesn't burn a drop of oil. Search for the UOA on BITOG under my same username.
Thanks for the info With the city driving that I am doing right now and the supertech hm 10w40 not having a bunch of additives I don't want to go too long and have issues with too much fuel dilution since the oil won't handle it as well as a more robust oil would.

Probably going to go 2k miles then send in a sample for an oil analysis and go from there then switch over to valvoline maxllife hm 10w40 for a couple of oil changes. Will post my findings here.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:30 AM   #36
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Thanks for the info With the city driving that I am doing right now and the supertech hm 10w40 not having a bunch of additives I don't want to go too long and have issues with too much fuel dilution since the oil won't handle it as well as a more robust oil would.

Probably going to go 2k miles then send in a sample for an oil analysis and go from there then switch over to valvoline maxllife hm 10w40 for a couple of oil changes. Will post my findings here.
If you're referring to this VOA , I believe that it may be incorrect. Note the info that was posted by motorguy from Wal-Mart's oil supplier, WPP. I've seen Blackstone results on Rotella T6 where ZDDP was lower than a Resource Conserving 5W-30. Not! I didn't look up any Valvoline uoa's to see if the additive packs where comparable like some there were saying.

Also, the viscosity should be robust enough to handle some fuel dilution.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 05-27-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:56 PM   #37
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Factory fill:



Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w30 w/ 3/4 can of Lubro-Moly MoS2 added. Seems like a good oil to me. Thick for a 5w30. Not sure what's up with the Aluminum though. Maybe i can go the full 7,500 mi OCI on it? Subaru OEM Filter:

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Old 05-29-2013, 07:56 PM   #38
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Is that the oil Volks recommends for their turbo diesels? Good numbers. The factory fill looks rather thin @ 3000 miles but tons of moly and calcium.
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Old 05-29-2013, 08:39 PM   #39
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It's one of the oils VW recommends for the Tdi engines. Off the top of my head I don't remember whether this is the 504/507 variety or the 505.01 variety. The additives make me think it's the former. 504/507 is low SAPS for use in diesels with DPF, 505.01 is for the older cars without DPF.

The Lubro-moly skews the UOA a bit (also a thick 30wt), but Edge OE does look pretty good. Sneak up on the 7,500 mile OCI, maybe try 6,000 first.

Wow, I just agreed with Blackstone, there's a first...
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:32 PM   #40
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Isn't adding moly to a low SAPS oil kind of an oxymoron? Actually, I added it to a mid-SAPS oil, Motul X-clean, (trying to re-create the "feel" of Red Line) but the consistency freaked me out a bit. Was this a full can of Lubro Moly?

Maybe I'm used to high detergent oils but the Castrol OE looks weak in the calcium/magnesium department. Of course, I suppose this is the limitation of this type of uoa and some of the new non-metallic additives that won't show up in a typical uoa.

Hopefully the aluminum is just "noise".

-Dennis
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:04 AM   #41
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Is that the oil Volks recommends for their turbo diesels? Good numbers. The factory fill looks rather thin @ 3000 miles but tons of moly and calcium.
I purchased it at the VW dealer, only place I could find it. It's a bit pricey.
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
It's one of the oils VW recommends for the Tdi engines. Off the top of my head I don't remember whether this is the 504/507 variety or the 505.01 variety. The additives make me think it's the former. 504/507 is low SAPS for use in diesels with DPF, 505.01 is for the older cars without DPF.

The Lubro-moly skews the UOA a bit (also a thick 30wt), but Edge OE does look pretty good. Sneak up on the 7,500 mile OCI, maybe try 6,000 first.

Wow, I just agreed with Blackstone, there's a first...
According to the datasheet for 5w30 the Edge Prof. OE is 505.1 and the Edge Prof. LL03 variant is 504/507. 6k sounds good.
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Isn't adding moly to a low SAPS oil kind of an oxymoron? Actually, I added it to a mid-SAPS oil, Motul X-clean, (trying to re-create the "feel" of Red Line) but the consistency freaked me out a bit. Was this a full can of Lubro Moly?

Maybe I'm used to high detergent oils but the Castrol OE looks weak in the calcium/magnesium department. Of course, I suppose this is the limitation of this type of uoa and some of the new non-metallic additives that won't show up in a typical uoa.

Hopefully the aluminum is just "noise".

-Dennis
Why is it an oxymoron? It was 50-75% of a can in this oil. My logic was to add the moly to closer approximate the factory fill moly levels. Subaru recommends the high moly factory fill in for 7,500 miles so I wanted to get close to that. Hopefully my logic makes sense :/

Any ideas why this oil would be lower on detergents? That would just necessitate shorter OCIs right?
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #42
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I purchased it at the VW dealer, only place I could find it. It's a bit pricey.

According to the datasheet for 5w30 the Edge Prof. OE is 505.1 and the Edge Prof. LL03 variant is 504/507. 6k sounds good.

Why is it an oxymoron? It was 50-75% of a can in this oil. My logic was to add the moly to closer approximate the factory fill moly levels. Subaru recommends the high moly factory fill in for 7,500 miles so I wanted to get close to that. Hopefully my logic makes sense :/

Any ideas why this oil would be lower on detergents? That would just necessitate shorter OCIs right?
Moly, zinc, and phosphorus are lower in low SAPS oils for reduced ash, to be friendlier to DPF's and cats, but throwing in Lubro Moly kind of defeats the point of running a low SAPS oil. I love the feel of moly though.

Low SAPS info:
http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd.../LowerSAPS.pdf

Although after saying in an email that moly levels are being reduced in oils to meet GF5 specs, Idemitsu comes out with a high moly Mazda oil (although moly in oil is a different form than Lubro Moly - soluble vs insoluble) so go figure.

I'm not sure why calcium is lower. Maybe it's part of the low SAPS formula. As long as you do uoa's with a TBN, I wouldn't worry. Just don't try to do a 7,500 mile interval without one.

-Dennis
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #43
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These low SAPS oils have very different additive chemistry than we're used to, and the few UOAs I've seen in gasoline cars with them seem to indicate they have much better TBN retention than traditional chemistry. VW gasoline cars have a recommended OCI of 10,000 mi on 504/507 oil, though VW engines tend to have large sumps for their size, so you might not be able to go that far in a WRX. I have zero experience with VW 505 oils in a gasoline engine though.

The Lubro-Moly additive is a good choice for break-in, but likely not continued use. The LM additive is primarily MoS2, which is an extreme pressure anti-wear additive, a very different beast from soluble Moly-DTC found in most motor oil formulations which at levels over 75ppm is primarily a friction modifier, not an AW additive. The Moly in the factory fill is a combination of soluble Moly from the oil and MoS2 solid film lube wearing off the piston skirts, a UOA can't tell the difference. I suspect Subaru want's to keep that MoS2 in the engine until break-in is largely complete, and it's thus a good idea to use the Lubro-moly if you change the factory fill early.

I changed the factory fill early on my WRX, then used the Lubro-Moly until 10k mi, see my UOAs linked in post #2 for the results. I now see this was unnecessary. My 2011 Civic kept the factory fill for 6,000 miles, and wear actually went UP in the second UOA. Those UOAs are posted at BITOG under the same username. My mother just bought a 2013 Legacy 2.5i, we're going to leave the FF in that for the full 7,500, we'll see how the UOA comes back.

All that is a long winded way of saying I don't think the wear metal levels in a factory fill are anything to worry about. They're always lower than the condemnation limits set by HD diesel engine builders for long term OCIs. I mention them because they're the only ones to publish such limits.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
If you're referring to this VOA , I believe that it may be incorrect. Note the info that was posted by motorguy from Wal-Mart's oil supplier, WPP. I've seen Blackstone results on Rotella T6 where ZDDP was lower than a Resource Conserving 5W-30. Not! I didn't look up any Valvoline uoa's to see if the additive packs where comparable like some there were saying.

Also, the viscosity should be robust enough to handle some fuel dilution.

-Dennis
Thanks Dennis I have an unopened bottle of the Supertech hm 10w40 so might be sending in a vos of that oil and then a sample of the used oil in my engine since I just got my kit from Blackstone in the mail.

~Josh
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #45
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Reserved and subscribed: I'll be posting mine soon!
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:04 PM   #46
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Reserved and subscribed: I'll be posting mine soon!
What oil and filter are you using?
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:09 PM   #47
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What oil and filter are you using?
Castrol Edge with Purolator; 4500 mile change intervals.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:46 PM   #48
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Castrol Edge with Purolator; 4500 mile change intervals.
Which Castrol Edge? GC?

-Dennis
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:47 PM   #49
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Which Castrol Edge? GC?

-Dennis
Castrol Edge Titanium, 5w30.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:04 PM   #50
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Castrol Edge Titanium, 5w30.
It will probably come back as a 20 grade so don't be alarmed. It starts as a thin 30 grade. Bugeye's are typically easier on oil though. Got mods?

-Dennis
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