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Old 06-05-2013, 09:09 AM   #1
MaddMax
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Default Latest Motor Trend: Who says the GR WRX can't handle?

In the latest issue of Motor Trend, there is a comparison test of the Audi R8 V10 vs GTR. The GTR posts some crazy performance numbers (as usual) and tears up Willow Springs (1.55 mile course).

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html

Additionally Motor Trend posts up their Willow Springs track data. The 2013 WRX Special Edition (no different than a standard WRX) actually posted some very decent numbers. It out ran the following cars:

2013 Subaru Impreza WRX Special Edition 1:27.4

2011 BMW M3 Coupe 1:27.7
2011 Ford Mustang GT 1:27.8
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:28.4
2013 Ford Mustang V-6 1:29.1
2013 Hyunda Genesis Coupe 1:29.1
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:29.3
2013 MazdaSpeed3 1:29.5
2013 Subaru BRZ (Long Termer) 1:30.3
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited 1:30.3
2013 Scion FR-S 1:31.2
2012 Volkswagen GTI DSG 1:31.5
2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata 1:31.9


I can only imagine the WRX's improvement with a proper alignment and stiffer shock dampening.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #2
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That is surprising, good to see though.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
MaddMax
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And before people start making arguments about conditions, this is Willow Springs, just north of LA. It's always sunny and warm.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
In the latest issue of Motor Trend, there is a comparison test of the Audi R8 V10 vs GTR. The GTR posts some crazy performance numbers (as usual) and tears up Willow Springs (1.55 mile course).

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html

Additionally Motor Trend posts up their Willow Springs track data. The 2013 WRX Special Edition (no different than a standard WRX) actually posted some very decent numbers. It out ran the following cars:

2013 Subaru Impreza WRX Special Edition 1:27.4

2011 BMW M3 Coupe 1:27.7
2011 Ford Mustang GT 1:27.8
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:28.4
2013 Ford Mustang V-6 1:29.1
2013 Hyunda Genesis Coupe 1:29.1
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:29.3
2013 MazdaSpeed3 1:29.5
2013 Subaru BRZ (Long Termer) 1:30.3
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited 1:30.3
2013 Scion FR-S 1:31.2
2012 Volkswagen GTI DSG 1:31.5
2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata 1:31.9


I can only imagine the WRX's improvement with a proper alignment and stiffer shock dampening.
i canonly imagine the v6 mushtang with the ecu flashed to remove the 112mph speed limiter which, iirc, it was hitting for 20+ seconds/lap in that test

yeah
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:30 AM   #5
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Nice, the only cars faster around the track from their sample are some real monsters.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
i canonly imagine the v6 mushtang with the ecu flashed to remove the 112mph speed limiter which, iirc, it was hitting for 20+ seconds/lap in that test

yeah
Does that GT also have the limiter?
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogboot View Post
Does that GT also have the limiter?
nah.....the v6 is supeeeryor!!!!!1
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:36 AM   #8
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Interesting. Very different from Car & Driver's Lightning Lap results.
V6 'Stang outran the WRX by 4 seconds
GT by ~8
M3 Coupe by ~11
Genesis by a couple

Lightning Lap Results
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
i canonly imagine the v6 mushtang with the ecu flashed to remove the 112mph speed limiter which, iirc, it was hitting for 20+ seconds/lap in that test

yeah
You're thinking the VIR Lightning Lap by Car & Driver.

The 545hp GTR and 550hp Audi had peak MPHs of 124 and 119mph, respectively. I have a real hard time believing the 305hp V6 Stang would be spending much time, if any, on the 112mph limiter at WS.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh R. View Post
Interesting. Very different from Car & Driver's Lightning Lap results.
V6 'Stang outran the WRX by 4 seconds
GT by ~8
M3 Coupe by ~11
Genesis by a couple

Lightning Lap Results
VIR is a much longer course. The comparison between VIR and WS shows the WRX's advantages on a shorter and tighter course. Much of the WRX's handling ills at VIR was it's braking (lots of fade) and some understeer. No fade reported at WS. Some understeer reported.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #11
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So fast it beat the Focus twice.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
i canonly imagine the v6 mushtang with the ecu flashed to remove the 112mph speed limiter which, iirc, it was hitting for 20+ seconds/lap in that test

yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
You're thinking the VIR Lightning Lap by Car & Driver.

The 545hp GTR and 550hp Audi had peak MPHs of 124 and 119mph, respectively. I have a real hard time believing the 305hp V6 Stang would be spending much time, if any, on the 112mph limiter at WS.
Yep, looks like the V6 Mustang only got up to 103MPH:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../photo_03.html
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #13
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not suprising. The brakes seem to be the limiting factor for the new wrx. was extremely tight when i test drove it.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #14
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Whos says it can't handle? That's a relative statment anyways. Handled great when I took my bone stock car to the track. Cooked the crap out of the brakes, but aside from that, it did great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
And before people start making arguments about conditions, this is Willow Springs, just north of LA. It's always sunny and warm.
It's in the desert, it's often incredibly hot and can be very windy, especially in the afternoon. Turbo cars can heatsoak there like a mofo.

Anyways, for sure different tracks will yield different results. Out of all the local tracks Streets of Willow is the closest to a canyon road. Being able to put power down out of corners and having good torque to pull you out of them counts for a lot.

The 2.5 mile big track, Willow Springs International Raceway will favor much more powerful cars like the current M3 or a Corvette and the WRX will be much slower, drivers being equal of course.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f20cftw View Post
not suprising. The brakes seem to be the limiting factor for the new wrx. was extremely tight when i test drove it.
Absolutely, one track day and the front pads were totally cooked. Brake fluid boiled too. Better pads and fluid have helped a lot but ultimately the STI Brembo setup with good pads and fluid is the hot ticket.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post

The 545hp GTR and 550hp Audi had peak MPHs of 124 and 119mph, respectively. I have a real hard time believing the 305hp V6 Stang would be spending much time, if any, on the 112mph limiter at WS.
Yeah on the Streets track, no way a stang V6 hits 112 at the end of the straight heading into the fast sweeper that is turn 1. 90 something seems more realistic. The GTR is close to hitting speeds that motorcycles hit there!

On the big track, the stang would certainly be bouncing off the limiter down the straight, in turn 8 and possibly on the run between turns 2 and 3.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrmeltr View Post
Whos says it can't handle? That's a relative statment anyways. Handled great when I took my bone stock car to the track. Cooked the crap out of the brakes, but aside from that, it did great.
I guess my point to the thread was that so many on here assume since the GR WRX does lean a bit in turns and tetter fore/aft that it means the car doesn't handle well. That's really not the case. I won't argue that the perceived handling doesn't feel that exceptional, but once the chassis settles, it sticks pretty well and the AWD traction let's you dig in and dig out....in a hamfisted kind of a way.

Just an alignment and better shocks will make the car that much better. Bigger/better brakes are certainly needed for longer courses. I won't argue that. Big brakes for autox and normal daily driving? IMO, a waste of money and possibly worse braking.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
I guess my point to the thread was that so many on here assume since the GR WRX does lean a bit in turns and tetter fore/aft that it means the car doesn't handle well. That's really not the case. I won't argue that the perceived handling doesn't feel that exceptional, but once the chassis settles, it sticks pretty well and the AWD traction let's you dig in and dig out....in a hamfisted kind of a way.

Just an alignment and better shocks will make the car that much better. Bigger/better brakes are certainly needed for longer courses. I won't argue that. Big brakes for autox and normal daily driving? IMO, a waste of money and possibly worse braking.
A great point. It's in that way people will go overkill with sway bars to eliminate body roll without realizing they are losing actual grip. The car turns flatter though, so they assmume it handles better though it might not actually be the case.

As you said, once it takes a set the stock suspension is actually pretty good. The real area where it's evident how soft it is would be during transition and the rapid side to side weight transfer that happens as a result. It's still manageable though.

You're right that on the street, except for the longest and steepest of high speed canyon descents taken at cuckoo speed, there should never be an issue with the stock brakes and the grip of the tires used will matter much more.

I don't see how upgrades will make things worse though unless racing pads that requires coming up to temp to be effective. That aside, by virture of their opposed piston design, the Brembos do tend to offer better modulation and feel. Hardly necessary for street but nor mandatory on an auto-x course, but nice to have.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrmeltr View Post
A great point. It's in that way people will go overkill with sway bars to eliminate body roll without realizing they are losing actual grip. The car turns flatter though, so they assmume it handles better though it might not actually be the case.

As you said, once it takes a set the stock suspension is actually pretty good. The real area where it's evident how soft it is would be during transition and the rapid side to side weight transfer that happens as a result. It's still manageable though.

You're right that on the street, except for the longest and steepest of high speed canyon descents taken at cuckoo speed, there should never be an issue with the stock brakes and the grip of the tires used will matter much more.

I don't see how upgrades will make things worse though unless racing pads that requires coming up to temp to be effective. That aside, by virture of their opposed piston design, the Brembos do tend to offer better modulation and feel. Hardly necessary for street but nor mandatory on an auto-x course, but nice to have.
BBKs adding unsprun weight at the wheels, or only upgrading front breaks upsetting the bias
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX boarder View Post
BBKs adding unsprun weight at the wheels, or only upgrading front breaks upsetting the bias
While it's true the general rule is to run the smallest brakes one can get away with and the smallest wheels that can fit over them, there is a point where the benefit in the ability to deal with heat and provide consistent braking performance after repeated hard use from using larger brakes outweighs the benefit of reduced unsprung weight.

As for the bias issue, there is some wiggle room in that respect of how much the bias is really affected. It's usually not necessary to replace the master cylinder or introduce a brake bias adjuster if the big brake kit was properly engineered to work with the existing components. In respect to OEM WRX twin piston front brakes and theOEM four piston brakes, this really not a problem at all as the four piston equipped WRXs used the same master cylinder.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:13 PM   #21
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Beating the M3 coupe is the only thing that surprises me there.

And damn that GT-R is sexy. I don't see myself ever owning one, but one can dream.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #22
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I love the wrx taking 3 fords. awesome.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonToo View Post
So fast it beat the Focus twice.
Hahaha.

Anyways, awesome. Brb, rubbing this in everyone's faces

Beating the M3 is very impressive, those things are literally twice the price of a base WRX... and this is the top of the line model, right? Meaning it's 3400lbs, instead of the base model's 3200. So theoretically, a base WRX would be even quicker (unless some weight distribution or other factors come into play).

Also interesting that the BRZ beats the FR-S by so much.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:28 AM   #24
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My understanding is the brz suspension is slightly stiffer and as their long term tester, I believe they put better tires (for a tire test) on it than the prius tires they come with.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
In the latest issue of Motor Trend, there is a comparison test of the Audi R8 V10 vs GTR. The GTR posts some crazy performance numbers (as usual) and tears up Willow Springs (1.55 mile course).

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html

Additionally Motor Trend posts up their Willow Springs track data. The 2013 WRX Special Edition (no different than a standard WRX) actually posted some very decent numbers. It out ran the following cars:

2013 Subaru Impreza WRX Special Edition 1:27.4

2011 BMW M3 Coupe 1:27.7
2011 Ford Mustang GT 1:27.8
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:28.4
2013 Ford Mustang V-6 1:29.1
2013 Hyunda Genesis Coupe 1:29.1
2013 Ford Focus ST 1:29.3
2013 MazdaSpeed3 1:29.5
2013 Subaru BRZ (Long Termer) 1:30.3
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited 1:30.3
2013 Scion FR-S 1:31.2
2012 Volkswagen GTI DSG 1:31.5
2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata 1:31.9


I can only imagine the WRX's improvement with a proper alignment and stiffer shock dampening.
If you read the orignal article for the BMW and Mustang, they say willow raceway is 1.8 miles long. In the WRX test, it is 1.55 Miles. Maybe that's why.
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