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Old 06-10-2013, 02:47 AM   #51
corvid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legacy_gt View Post
so if you took a sample of 1000 people on nasioc, you know more about cars than 990 people? that's a lot.
990/1000= .990
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:50 AM   #52
sc00by4life
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i love when people relate autocross to road racing.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:59 AM   #53
legacy_gt
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990/1000= .990
right. I guess more than 990 people. lol.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #54
Tyrmeltr
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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
If you want something that isn't going to blow transmissions and can handle brake temps buy an sti not a wrx.
I would agree with that provided one is trying to make big power with the car. Otherwise, brakes are relatively cheap to upgrade compared to transmissions. If one is not looking to make more than stage 1/2 kinda power levels, and they are kind to the transmission and know how to drive fast without being abusive, the 5 speed will hold up just fine.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:02 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Tyrmeltr View Post
I would agree with that provided one is trying to make big power with the car. Otherwise, brakes are relatively cheap to upgrade compared to transmissions. If one is not looking to make more than stage 1/2 kinda power levels, and they are kind to the transmission and know how to drive fast without being abusive, the 5 speed will hold up just fine.
Take your car on a real track for more then a couple laps. You'll immediately wish you had brembos. Now to the trans. I broke mine twice in my 2700 lb Rs with lgt gears which is the same gears as the current wrx. Once was rely with zero abuse. Second was on its first semi hard launch. Had maybe slightly less then 350 whp.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Take your car on a real track for more then a couple laps. You'll immediately wish you had brembos. Now to the trans. I broke mine twice in my 2700 lb Rs with lgt gears which is the same gears as the current wrx. Once was rely with zero abuse. Second was on its first semi hard launch. Had maybe slightly less then 350 whp.
Sounds like you need to learn to drive.

Also, the issue with the WRX brakes isn't so much the calipers as it is the pads and fluid. The WRX has street pads with an optimal operating temperature far below temperatures that are reached during laps on a road course. Changing pads and fluids has a much bigger impact than increasing the heat capacity of the calipers.

His point is that if you aren't going for big power where the beefy sti 6 speed would truly be beneficial, then it's far cheaper to get a WRX with its beefed up transmission fine for 350 wtq and just upgrade the brakes. You could buy a set of brembos or stoptechs or something if you're feeling ambitious but you would be fine doing a cheap upgrade with just track pads and brake fluid that won't boil.

The brakes are without a doubt the weak point of the WRX. The willow spring course was noted as not causing the WRX brakes to fade and so the time we see is essentially what the WRX is capable of if its brakes are upgraded. Personally I think the WRX is slugging it out with competitors far above its pay grade even with its soft stock suspension and terrible factory tune. I'd love to see how a WRX with $2k in modifications performs on the same course.

Last edited by mrkyle3; 06-10-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:49 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Take your car on a real track for more then a couple laps. You'll immediately wish you had brembos. Now to the trans. I broke mine twice in my 2700 lb Rs with lgt gears which is the same gears as the current wrx. Once was rely with zero abuse. Second was on its first semi hard launch. Had maybe slightly less then 350 whp.
Ahem.... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2493612

The brake fluid boiled and pads were fried but I was still able to make the most of what the car had to provide. I was not left wishing I had Brembos, though the good fluid and pads would have been nice, and certainly towards the end of the day allowed me to cut much faster lap times.

Now that the pads and fluid are done, I'd say that it would take a pretty big bump in power and grip to make the car cry for larger, more powerful brakes. A stage 2 car with race tires, the brakes are definitely going to be an issue again.

As for the trans thing, you might want to see my join date. I had one of the first custom turbo 2.5RS in the country. I blew the motor before the trans, and then I was running a Legacy turbo 2.2 shortblock on '98 RS heads and did numerous track days, auto-x's and rally-x's in that car with zero problems on the stock 5 speed.

Maybe I was lucky, maybe you were unlucky, but the point is I don't do hard launches with awd cars (something has to give, and it's usually not the tires), I don't rush 1-2 shifts, I usually don't downshift into 1st. These little things alone seem to make my transmissions last when others don't. It was no different when I was f-ing around with custom turbocharged 80's watercooled VWs, people blew up those trannies all the time, yet mine were always fine.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:50 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Take your car on a real track for more then a couple laps. You'll immediately wish you had brembos. Now to the trans. I broke mine twice in my 2700 lb Rs with lgt gears which is the same gears as the current wrx. Once was rely with zero abuse. Second was on its first semi hard launch. Had maybe slightly less then 350 whp.
Willow Springs isn't a real track?

I've tracked my 05 legacy gt many times, stage II, with some upgraded pads and my car did just fine with its 5 speed. I also dragged it twice. I had 110k before I got my new wrx in 11'.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:15 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by mrkyle3 View Post
Sounds like you need to learn to drive.

Also, the issue with the WRX brakes isn't so much the calipers as it is the pads and fluid. The WRX has street pads with an optimal operating temperature far below temperatures that are reached during laps on a road course. Changing pads and fluids has a much bigger impact than increasing the heat capacity of the calipers.

His point is that if you aren't going for big power where the beefy sti 6 speed would truly be beneficial, then it's far cheaper to get a WRX with its beefed up transmission fine for 350 wtq and just upgrade the brakes. You could buy a set of brembos or stoptechs or something if you're feeling ambitious but you would be fine doing a cheap upgrade with just track pads and brake fluid that won't boil.

The brakes are without a doubt the weak point of the WRX. The willow spring course was noted as not causing the WRX brakes to fade and so the time we see is essentially what the WRX is capable of if its brakes are upgraded. Personally I think the WRX is slugging it out with competitors far above its pay grade even with its soft stock suspension and terrible factory tune. I'd love to see how a WRX with $2k in modifications performs on the same course.
You made my own point. So the weak spots in the sti are the trans, brakes, and suspension......no f'ing ****. God damn you guys are newbs.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:28 PM   #60
Tyrmeltr
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God damn you guys are newbs.
Considering you're "newer" here than I am, that's pretty funny.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:30 PM   #61
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You made my own point. So the weak spots in the sti are the trans, brakes, and suspension......no f'ing ****. God damn you guys are newbs.
Not really. Trans is fine. Stock suspension is soft but as you can see from the test it's still enough to best an M3.

I just said brakes are the glaring weak point but fixed cheaply with new pads and better fluid.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:02 PM   #62
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Considering you're "newer" here than I am, that's pretty funny.
Did I quote you? Newb move right there....
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #63
Tyrmeltr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Did I quote you? Newb move right there....
"You guys" implies referring to more than one person. Considering the other individuals involved with the recent posts on this thread and I seem to be on the same page, I made the mistake of assuming that you meant I was also one of the "guys" you were referring too.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #64
MaddMax
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Originally Posted by Tyrmeltr View Post
Maybe I was lucky, maybe you were unlucky, but the point is I don't do hard launches with awd cars (something has to give, and it's usually not the tires), I don't rush 1-2 shifts, I usually don't downshift into 1st. These little things alone seem to make my transmissions last when others don't. It was no different when I was f-ing around with custom turbocharged 80's watercooled VWs, people blew up those trannies all the time, yet mine were always fine.
^This. Road course racing shouldn't be hard on a tranny. There's no sense in doing super fast shifts. Your goal is to be smooth.

Also, torque breaks transmissions, not HP. The 5MT is fairly stout, but once you start 30% more torque than stock, all bets are off. The same could be said for most any transmission out there.
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