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Old 06-11-2013, 03:01 AM   #101
akfmx
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After many swear words and lots of spilled coolant, I finally changed out the turbo for the one I got from Chad. And guess what? STILL NO DICE

I wan't to give up at this point, considering I have been working on the car more than I can enjoy it...and Its still not finished.

But that would be too easy. I guess the next step is to try to fix the leaking injector seals (air, not fuel leak). Only other thing I can think of besides that is a massive pre-turbo exhaust leak

Any other ideas? I mean, even with a boost leak, I feel like I would be able to see target boost (6 psi) at SOME point, if even for a split second. But the needle never goes above about 1 or 2 psi. The gauge isn't broke either. Butt dyno also confirms it is barely making any boost.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:10 AM   #102
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Same actuator?
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:17 AM   #103
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Yes, I used the same actuator. It doesn't stick and feels strong when you pull it open by hand.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:21 AM   #104
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Probably not holding... Try another actuator.

Occam's razor... Whatever is the simplest and not changed must be the logical solution.

If you dont have a way to test it, wire it shut and CAREFULLY ramp some part throttle to see if it works. If it builds any more than you have been seeing then you know that's it. Do note you will have zero boost control if you do this test, so don't even think of WOT, 1/4 to half should show you enough.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:29 AM   #105
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Hmm, now that you mention that...Seth was able to get a couple more psi by using an MBC, which essentially just delays the wastegate actuator, correct? And that would make sense why it seems to never go above 1-2psi...

I'll be back in a second, gonna test this out.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:05 AM   #106
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So after wiring the wastegate closed, it DID build boost past what I had been seeing. It didn't build it as quickly as I would've thought, but it did get up to about 5 or 6 psi before I let off.

I threw on another actuator I have out of excitement. First pull seemed better, this time it made it up to maybe 3psi but still not the 6 psi I want. And on the second pull, it only seemed to get to 2 psi again and the needle on the gauge flutters (not holding still). It did this with the first actuator as well, at times.

Tomorrow I'll probably put the MBC back on and see if I can't get it to hold a good 6psi
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #107
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Sounds like you are having some real fun here. Very unlikely but you can test for a blocked IC by moving your pressure gauge to some where before the IC. See if the pressure is all sitting before the IC.

From experience I have seen some pretty nasty boost leaks and the car still would build pressure more then what your seeing. Even if the injectors are leaking a bit unless its a fairly massive leak that turbo should still wake up and move some air; especially with the WGA wired shut.

I think you said your boost leak checking with a hand pump or something so that volume of air is very low. I would suggest using something with more volume like an air compressor. Obviously you don't want any leaks but very small ones will not effect what your trying to do here. Even the small turbo you have is capable of moving quite a lot of air quickly.

Do you still have an EGR system on that car in place?


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Old 06-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #108
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Most of you are probably too young to remember this, but you need to put one of these bears in your car:
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
Sounds like you are having some real fun here. Very unlikely but you can test for a blocked IC by moving your pressure gauge to some where before the IC. See if the pressure is all sitting before the IC.

From experience I have seen some pretty nasty boost leaks and the car still would build pressure more then what your seeing. Even if the injectors are leaking a bit unless its a fairly massive leak that turbo should still wake up and move some air; especially with the WGA wired shut.

I think you said your boost leak checking with a hand pump or something so that volume of air is very low. I would suggest using something with more volume like an air compressor. Obviously you don't want any leaks but very small ones will not effect what your trying to do here. Even the small turbo you have is capable of moving quite a lot of air quickly.

Do you still have an EGR system on that car in place?


Seth --- P3 Import Autowerks 907.355.6655
Almost positive my car does not have an EGR system.

I have been using a compressor and the typical PVC cap with a tire valve in it, in place of the air filter. Maybe I will make a video. The injectors do have a pretty good leak...I wonder if there is any way to seal them without putting in new seals?

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Most of you are probably too young to remember this, but you need to put one of these bears in your car:
Waka Waka Waka

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Old 06-11-2013, 06:26 PM   #110
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If you would like to bring it back to the shop we can take another shot at sealing them up...no charge. I'm really really curious about this one now. I was banking on a bad turbo, guess that wasn't it. Maybe you could stop by and hang out on a weekend At this point I just really want to see whats going on out of personal curiosity and the learning experience!

When you pressurize the system have you had someone take a look at the gauge in the car to see what its rising to? With my compressor turned all the way down we could get it to 10psi no problem. Wonder if you fixed one issue but now the injectors have blown a seal out making a new problem with the same symptoms. Like I said earlier I have seen some serious boost leaks and the cars still made much better pressure then what you are experiencing.

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Almost positive my car does not have an EGR system.

I have been using a compressor and the typical PVC cap with a tire valve in it, in place of the air filter. Maybe I will make a video. The injectors do have a pretty good leak...I wonder if there is any way to seal them without putting in new seals?



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Old 06-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #111
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I thought for sure it was the turbo too.

The gauge on the compressor hose attachment only goes as low as 10psi. What would happen is I would start filling it up and you could hear the air escaping pretty bad. The hose gauge never got to 10psi, but I would fill it up as much as I could and run around to the boost gauge inside to see it at about 6psi and dropping to 0 in about 10 seconds. It sounds like a significant leak for sure, but like you, I figured since I could manually pressurize it up above 6psi, that the turbo should be able to do the same thing.

I would also squirt soapy water on parts in the engine bay while doing this and all 4 injector seals were hissing/bubbling. Couldn't find any other leaks.

That would be really helpful of you guys. I will try to come see you soon. I just got a new job and should be up in anchorage for training in a couple weeks.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:04 PM   #112
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Ok sounds good. Just give us some heads up and we can make some room for you.

In your response you say that it will drop from 6psi to 0 in about 10 seconds...That is not a "significant" leak. It is a leak and it needs to be fixed but the fact it holds long enough for you to go see the gauge drops means that the turbo would have little to no issues making boost. That being said I don't think a boost leak is your issue...Note: I have in some rare cases seen a little leak go to a big one then back to a little one again under boosted conditions and not on the tester. These usually show themselves as fluttery on the gauge.

That turbo moves a TON more air then your tester does. Remember volume and pressure are separate things here.

Large boost leaks would be flat out of pressure before you even got past the fender.

Don't be fooled by blow by leaks as well internally. They show themselves as air coming out of breather lines etc. If your recirc back into your intake then this shouldn't come up but other places like dipsticks, oil caps, etc can all start to leak under pressures they were not designed to see.

So you still have the issue, have you ruled out BPV or BOV popping open? I think this was done?

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I thought for sure it was the turbo too.

The gauge on the compressor hose attachment only goes as low as 10psi. What would happen is I would start filling it up and you could hear the air escaping pretty bad. The hose gauge never got to 10psi, but I would fill it up as much as I could and run around to the boost gauge inside to see it at about 6psi and dropping to 0 in about 10 seconds. It sounds like a significant leak for sure, but like you, I figured since I could manually pressurize it up above 6psi, that the turbo should be able to do the same thing.

I would also squirt soapy water on parts in the engine bay while doing this and all 4 injector seals were hissing/bubbling. Couldn't find any other leaks.

That would be really helpful of you guys. I will try to come see you soon. I just got a new job and should be up in anchorage for training in a couple weeks.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:02 PM   #113
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The gauge does flutter when accelerating hard. It doesn't do it EVERY time, but its usually not steady.

I never really thought about the blow by...the breather lines all have individual filters and are not connected to the intake (car is MAP).

I don't know how to check the bpv..It wouldn't show during a leak test? I don't have any others to try, unfortunately.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:20 PM   #114
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If the BPV is dumping to atmosphere you typically will hear it open or flutter.. If its recirc and you are testing pressure on the intake low pressure side of the turbo then you won't detect it leaking obviously. I doubt the BPV is the problem at this level of boost anyway.

Don't forget to check pressure pre-IC later for kicks. Just use the nipple on your turbo for your gauge. Connect WGA to manifold for the test.




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The gauge does flutter when accelerating hard. It doesn't do it EVERY time, but its usually not steady.

I never really thought about the blow by...the breather lines all have individual filters and are not connected to the intake (car is MAP).

I don't know how to check the bpv..It wouldn't show during a leak test? I don't have any others to try, unfortunately.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:12 PM   #115
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It is the stock bpv dumping to atmosphere. I can definitely hear it open In between shifts and it sometimes does sound fluttery.

I'll have to do some of these tests and try to make a couple vids to post so you can see what the car is doing.

You're saying hook the boost gauge line directly to the turbo? If I see a different reading than before, what would that tell me?

Edit: nvm, I see that it would tell me the pressure is sitting before the intercooler, indicating a restrictive intercooler
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:25 AM   #116
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So I didn't have much time for anything tonight, but I was able to throw the MBC back on and take it for a spin. It was building boost up past 5psi...I didn't romp on it too hard yet because I still need to fine tune the boost controller and I'm not sure how high it would go right now.

I can hear loud wastegate flutter during every shift on a hard pull. Is that normal for a low boost setup? When I first drove this car with the turbo setup, I thought it was the BPV I was hearing but now I realize it is definitely coming from the turbo area and has to be wastegate. I can barely hear the BPV "whoosh" behind the loud flutter.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:44 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akfmx View Post
So I didn't have much time for anything tonight, but I was able to throw the MBC back on and take it for a spin. It was building boost up past 5psi...I didn't romp on it too hard yet because I still need to fine tune the boost controller and I'm not sure how high it would go right now.

I can hear loud wastegate flutter during every shift on a hard pull. Is that normal for a low boost setup? When I first drove this car with the turbo setup, I thought it was the BPV I was hearing but now I realize it is definitely coming from the turbo area and has to be wastegate. I can barely hear the BPV "whoosh" behind the loud flutter.
Are you running a 3port ebcs if so mine does the same thing it's the system maintaining the boost opening and closing to keep it right at the same pressure. Manuel boost controller will be full on to what ever you have it set for that's what I've been told I had mine built by Cobb tuning Plano in Texas awesome guys down there
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:06 AM   #118
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I just realized, wasegate flutter wasn't the word I was looking for. Compressor surge maybe? Its a loud fluttery chirp around the turbo when I let off the throttle/in between shifts.

Anyways, here is a really crappy video where you can't see much. It didn't want to do it much while shooting this vid (go figure). But I also didn't mash the pedal either. You can hear the flutter/chirp on the second shift. Also, during this video the boost gauge needle was fluttering as well, but it doesn't happen every time...??

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thir...ce740.mp4.html
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:19 PM   #119
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Sounds ok but hard to tell. The lower boost on the valve probably isn't quite opening it all the way. I don't think this is related or the problem but obviously its hard to tell from here. I would say its safe to assume the valve sounds like its staying shut until its supposed to open.

When you let off the valve pops open and the pressure is released some valves make different sounds at different release pressures.

Get a chance to look and see if the IC is blocked by checking pressure prior to it?

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I just realized, wasegate flutter wasn't the word I was looking for. Compressor surge maybe? Its a loud fluttery chirp around the turbo when I let off the throttle/in between shifts.

Anyways, here is a really crappy video where you can't see much. It didn't want to do it much while shooting this vid (go figure). But I also didn't mash the pedal either. You can hear the flutter/chirp on the second shift. Also, during this video the boost gauge needle was fluttering as well, but it doesn't happen every time...??

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thir...ce740.mp4.html
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #120
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what kind of valve are you using, after market? i have seen issues with greddy valve and other on low boost applications, some valve are designed for full on high boost, id look at an ssqv or synapse
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:22 PM   #121
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Sounds ok but hard to tell. The lower boost on the valve probably isn't quite opening it all the way. I don't think this is related or the problem but obviously its hard to tell from here. I would say its safe to assume the valve sounds like its staying shut until its supposed to open.

When you let off the valve pops open and the pressure is released some valves make different sounds at different release pressures.

Get a chance to look and see if the IC is blocked by checking pressure prior to it?
Not yet. I assume take off the MBC for that test? I recently put it back on last night and am able to build good boost. I still need to adjust it because I am not sure exactly where it is set right now.

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what kind of valve are you using, after market? i have seen issues with greddy valve and other on low boost applications, some valve are designed for full on high boost, id look at an ssqv or synapse
Just a stock wrx bpv vented to atmosphere (my car is MAP).
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:00 AM   #122
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I adjusted the MBC and got it holding full boost right at .04 MPa (5.8 psi). I'm happy for now!

I might have been thrown off by the stock gauge I had been thinking .02 MPa was closer to 2psi but its really about 3psi and I bet if I tightened down the arm on the actuator I could've got it closer to the 5psi that the wastegate spring pressure is, because I currently have it almost as loose as it will go, but there is still a slight amount of preload.

Long story short: if I had a gauge that read in PSI I probably would've known what was happening and there probably wasn't a problem all along

But I am still getting compressor surge. That may be just something I have to live with. Or maybe an adjustable BOV...

Last edited by akfmx; 06-13-2013 at 03:41 AM.
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