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Old 06-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #1
GremlinDX
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Hey guys,

I am helping run this pilot PDX event with the NER region of the SCCA. Its going to be a full day

You will start out running 5 min heats on the pair of 1/3 mile autoX courses. One course will be run dry while the other will be wet (put your awd to use!!). Then, while the Club Racers are on their lunch break we will take to the track. Every 2 or 3 drivers will be matched with an instructor and they will take you out on the track and you run "lead, follow" laps for about 20 min. Then in the afternoon we will be running the full autocross course for for 5 minute heats until the end of the day.

In car instruction will be available from our autoX, club race, and rallyX veterans for anyone who wants it. This is a great opportunity to get a taste of what tracking your car is like in both a safe and low pressure event. I hope to see a few subies out there tearing it up!! But don't worry any safe cars are allowed.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me me with them. Here is the link to the event on motorsportsreg.

**A SNELL SA2000+ or M2000+ rated helmet is required. If you have a problem locating and wish to attend please contact me. I should be able to help you out

**Convertables must have a hardtop, or factory or better rollover protection that clears the helmet of all occupants.

https://www.motorsportreg.com/index....1#.Ubh-qmS9Kc1
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Last edited by GremlinDX; 06-15-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:01 AM   #2
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Interesting
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:32 AM   #3
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"Drivers must provide their own SFI 31.1 or Snell SA2000 (or newer) helmet to use and/or share."

Motorcycle DOT approved work?
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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Yeah, M rated helmet is where I'm at as well. How about convertible with stock rollbar? The description makes it sound like this would be fine, I know it's OK for LRP autocross events.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #5
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Motorcycle DOT and SNELL Mxxxx helmets will not be acceptable. We are required by the SCCA sanctioning to only allow SA2000+ racing helmets.

We "should" have some loaners available. But, if it is possible for you to get an appropriate helmet to bring it would be ideal.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
Yeah, M rated helmet is where I'm at as well. How about convertible with stock rollbar? The description makes it sound like this would be fine, I know it's OK for LRP autocross events.
Looks like we struck out on this one my man.

I wonder what the reasoning is behind me being allowed to smash my head off concrete, houses, other motorists, pavement, etc. on my bike with my DOT approved helmet... yet it's not safe for inside my car? *Brings up google machine*
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:35 PM   #7
GremlinDX
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I need to double check but stock roll bars should be good.(not style bars)

I will fill you guys in on the loaner helmet situation once I know for sure.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SmartMart View Post
Looks like we struck out on this one my man.

I wonder what the reasoning is behind me being allowed to smash my head off concrete, houses, other motorists, pavement, etc. on my bike with my DOT approved helmet... yet it's not safe for inside my car? *Brings up google machine*
Lawyers. When you ride your motorcycle on public roads you assume all the risks and your safety is largely your own responsibility. On a private track it is the responsibility of the facility and organizers to keep you safe. If you get hurt they get sued.

Snell M is more stringent than DOT, as described here:
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/dot

Quote:
Both Snell and DOT position the helmet on a test headform and then drop that helmeted headform through a two guided falls onto a fixed steel anvil. The test is repeated so that each helmet is impacted on at least four different sites on its surface against either a flat or hemispherical shaped anvil. Snell testing also impacts the helmet against a steel edge anvil that may simulate the edge of a sign stanchion or guardrail. The differences are in impact severity and impact criteria. How big an impact must the helmet withstand and how do the testers determine that the helmet actually withstood the impact.
Snell SA has even higher standards for helmets intended for motorsport use.

The motorsportsreg page said this about convertibles:

Quote:
Convertibles must have factory hard top or factory roll over protection and both driver and instructor must fit below a line drawn from the top of the windshield to the top of the roll over protection.

Last edited by spaceywilly; 06-12-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:11 PM   #9
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Hhmmmmm.....very interesting. I really want to run LRP and this is VERY affordable.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:35 PM   #10
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Ok so, the word on convertibles with no hardtop is you need roll over protection that will pass the "broomstick test." So as long as your helmet covered head sit sits lower than the bar and windshield frame it's good.

So NA/NB miata guys you pretty much have to have racing seats with drop brackets.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:00 PM   #11
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What's the deal with seat belts/harnesses. I have a harness for the drivers side and OEM seatbelt for passenger. I've heard this doesn't fly with some clubs.. Drivers seat and passenger seat at the same and I have a rollbar that sits about 1-2" above my helmet. Car is an NA miata btw.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:13 PM   #12
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What's the deal with seat belts/harnesses. I have a harness for the drivers side and OEM seatbelt for passenger. I've heard this doesn't fly with some clubs.. Drivers seat and passenger seat at the same and I have a rollbar that sits about 1-2" above my helmet. Car is an NA miata btw.
Quote:
For PDX (Level 1) events, the following guidelines apply for restraint systems. Cars equipped with a roll bar may use stock restraint systems, provided that the roll bar does not interfere with the function of the system in any way, or restraint harness per Section 11 of the TTR (Time Trials Rules) For these cars there is no age limit on harnessed so long as the harnesses are in visibly and physically good condition. Cars that do not incorporate roll bars or cages may use the stock restraint sstem in its entireely or use a restraint system that complies with TTR Section 11.

Cars: Street legal cars; Club Racing cars from Spec MIata, Touring or Improved Touring classes; cars which meet the preparation of SCCA Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared or Street Modified classes. Cars must have a passenger seat and a minimum of 3 point harness for both the driver and the passenger seats. Convertibles must have factory hard top or factory roll over protection and both driver and instructor must fit below a line drawn from the top of the windshield to the top of the roll over protection.
Section 11 says:

Quote:
A. A four point restraint system, for use in enclosed automobiles only, may be employed where the driver is seated in an upright position. Only 4 point restraints that incorporate a manufacturer designed method for prevention of submarining may be used. Five, six or seven-point systems are highly recommended in all cars including automobiles where the driver is seated in an upright position.
There are more requirements on page 32 here
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...4%20levels.pdf
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:31 PM   #13
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Wow, SCCA is handling events on the LRP autocross course very differently than LRP. I'm signed up for an autocross day directly with LRP later this year, they don't even require helmets, let alone SA, and their only concerns with cars are the noise level (and general safety). I know that school doesn't include track time but follow the leader parade laps for 20 minutes are hardly going to be pushing the limits too far.

Good luck with the event, it looks like a great deal.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSblood View Post
What's the deal with seat belts/harnesses. I have a harness for the drivers side and OEM seatbelt for passenger. I've heard this doesn't fly with some clubs.. Drivers seat and passenger seat at the same and I have a rollbar that sits about 1-2" above my helmet. Car is an NA miata btw.

Tomorrow I will double check the rules, this would only become an issue if you were going to have an instructor with you. So, do you plan on having and instructor through the day?

Also be aware if you say you don't need one and it becomes obvious you do, than we will still need to pair you up with one. We mean no offense to anyone but all of these rules as convoluted as they are, are put in place for your safety.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
Wow, SCCA is handling events on the LRP autocross course very differently than LRP. I'm signed up for an autocross day directly with LRP later this year, they don't even require helmets, let alone SA, and their only concerns with cars are the noise level (and general safety). I know that school doesn't include track time but follow the leader parade laps for 20 minutes are hardly going to be pushing the limits too far.

Good luck with the event, it looks like a great deal.
A lot of it is the SCCA sanctioning that has the strict requirements. But also let it be clear that even though the lapping for most won't be at 100%, it will approach and exceed any speeds you will ever see on autocross courses.

Also the lapping will be split into groups based on skill. No one will be setting any lap records, but I can see laps getting under the 1:10 mark pretty easily in the more advanced group. So It certainly won't be a Sunday drive out there. We will bring you up to speed gradually, but in the end we will be pushing you to go as fast as you safely can.
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:36 PM   #16
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A bit of an update on the helmet situation.


M2000+ or SA2000+ helmets re acceptable.

There was a bit of confusion since originally we were going to run the event at a Club Trials (PDX LVL 2) event. But since we changed it to PDX LVL 1 it lightened up the requirements slightly. This was never incorporated into the stipulations documents for the event.

Sorry for the confusion, but now you guys can just snag a helmet from a motorcycle riding buddy. Sorry, but DOT still will not be acceptable.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:04 PM   #17
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I thought the event was today. I have an M2010 helmet so that's good news. What I probably don't have is clearance under a broomstick in my NC MX5, even with the stock seat lowered.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
I thought the event was today. I have an M2010 helmet so that's good news. What I probably don't have is clearance under a broomstick in my NC MX5, even with the stock seat lowered.
I thought the NC's have a lot more room than the NA/B's? Or are you just 7 feet tall?? I'm not too fluent in miata the only ones I have ever drove were in full spec miata trim.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:13 AM   #19
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6'3", but even with the back of the seat lowered an inch I wouldn't pass with a helmet on. I'd need a composite seat.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by GremlinDX View Post
A bit of an update on the helmet situation....

Sorry for the confusion, but now you guys can just snag a helmet from a motorcycle riding buddy. Sorry, but DOT still will not be acceptable.
Even more confused now. Was that line contradictory or am I reading it wrong? I know you don't even need helmets in CT for a motorcycle but DOT in most states IS the standard for motorcycle helmets.

So 'but now you guys can just snag a helmet from a motorcycle riding buddy' is an untrue statement...? I think? By the sound of it you're trying to say a SNELL approved helmet will pass but the answer is still a no on normal motorcycle helmets.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #21
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The only motorcycle helmets that lack a SNELL M rating are usually the very cheap helmets.

DOT is the very minimum rating that helmets can have and still be legal. With that being said all of my and my friends motorcycle helmets have always been SNELL M rated. It's not something you should skimp on, a helmet is the most important part of your safety gear, whether racing or riding.

Last edited by GremlinDX; 06-15-2013 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:26 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GremlinDX View Post
The only motorcycle helmets that lack a SNELL M rating are usually the very cheap helmets.

DOT is the very minimum rating that helmets can have and still be legal. With that being said all of my and my friends motorcycle helmets have always been SNELL M rated. It's not something you should skimp on, a helmet is the most important part of your safety gear, whether racing or riding.
So you did mis-speak?
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #23
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No, but I just assume most people don't use DOT only helmets as myself and everyone else I know steer clear of them.

But I will edit it to clarify. And put in my original post.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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No, but I just assume most people don't use DOT only helmets as myself and everyone else I know steer clear of them.
Typical. Nobody can admit when they're wrong. Not like I asked you to kill your first born or anything. Certainly not trying to mince words with you here as so many children on NASIOC do; just clear up any possible confusion as to the wide array of accepted and denied helmets in this particular application.

Assumptions get people killed. Or in most cases typically really pissed off.

Just making sure you made yourself clear. Showing up with a DOT approved helmet and being told to go screw on the day of the event would be traumatic for some. Especially after paying for the day.

CliffNotes: DOT - NO. SNELL&DOT- YES
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:01 PM   #25
GremlinDX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMart View Post

Typical. Nobody can admit when they're wrong. Not like I asked you to kill your first born or anything. Certainly not trying to mince words with you here as so many children on NASIOC do; just clear up any possible confusion as to the wide array of accepted and denied helmets in this particular application.

Assumptions get people killed. Or in most cases typically really pissed off.

Just making sure you made yourself clear. Showing up with a DOT approved helmet and being told to go screw on the day of the event would be traumatic for some. Especially after paying for the day.

CliffNotes: DOT - NO. SNELL&DOT- YES
If you were to read the post in question in its entirety it does state what is and isn't allowed. But after seeing how it could be misconstrued, it prompted me to update the original post with exactly what is required for helmets (and convertibles.)

I'm not here to argue with anyone, I am only trying to make sure that everyone is safe and enjoys the event. I appreciate you bringing it up as not being clear to you and possibly other readers and potential entrants.

Also, we have a backup plan for the inevitable people that will show up with DOT helmets. But we can't have people relying on those limited personally owned helmets that I am procuring. Monday I will know for sure if we will have actual loaner helmets.
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