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Old 06-14-2013, 10:40 PM   #26
point78
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I have a FMIC on my wrx. Last week was the first I had it out in hot weather. Had a few days of 100f temps.

I have a 2 row mishimoto, and a 16g.

I bought the car used, and whoever put on the FMIC didn't seal up all the openings between be radiator, FMIC, & the bumper, etc.

I was overheating in the 100deg heat-just driving down the interstate It was at 215-225.(the temp needle was right in the middle the whole time)

I took cardboard, cut to fit all the openings in the bummer, FMIC, rad, etc. then covered the cardboard in duct tape.

I also duct taped up any openings Behind the bumper, undertray, and sealed the hood scoop-except a small area to feed cool air on top of the turbo.

I only hit 205-210 after that. 210 going up a hill.

(the idea is to completely seal off the engine bay, leaving the only path for the air through the intercooler & the radiator. You want the air hitting the front of the car to create a high pressure area, then by having the bottom & hood scoop sealed-a low pressure area in the engine bay-the pressure differential causes the air to flow through the radiators & out the back of the engine bay. Pressure flows from high to low)

If you leave a bunch of pathways air can easily get into the engine bay, it reduces your pressure differential, the air doesn't have a reason to flow through the radiator & into the engine bay-it just goes around it. Same with leaving the hood scoop open.
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Last edited by point78; 06-14-2013 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:16 PM   #27
dstroy
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My intercooling setup is air-to-water, and is slightly more involved than an fmic but not by much. As long as your temp needle doesn't move from the middle you're good to go. 10*f difference isn't going to hurt anything. My temps have been 182-200*f for as long as I've owned the car, even without anything blocking the rad. Ducting does go a long way, so will that air splitter you have on order. Have you ever burped your cooling system or completely drained it to make sure it's actually full?
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:05 AM   #28
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Culti View Post
I also have an oil temp gauge that currently reads around 200 with normal driving and about 210 with a little more spirited. with the front mount it was closer to 210 normal and 220 with spirited.
Oil temps of 200-220 are perfectly normal and nothing to be concerned about.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
^ This

Sounds like the shop is full of a bunch of idiots. This is one of the main reasons why when certain mods on this forum (*cough* Unabomber *cough*) respond to threads with "ignore all of us, contact your shop, and do exactly what they say to the letter" pisses me off. There are PLENTY of shops who know next to nothing, and educating yourself before diving into ANY build can be nothing but beneficial. Blindly following whatever your shop says and just writing them checks for thousands of dollars without knowing what is going on is ****ing retarded if you ask me...and is just BEGGING for problems like this.

rant over
Exactly this. I'm so sick of hearing "Don't ask anyone here. Only listen to your tuner. End thread."
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:16 AM   #30
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you went wrong when you picked an EJ to modify beyond stage 2.
/thread.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
^ This

Sounds like the shop is full of a bunch of idiots. This is one of the main reasons why when certain mods on this forum (*cough* Unabomber *cough*) respond to threads with "ignore all of us, contact your shop, and do exactly what they say to the letter" pisses me off. There are PLENTY of shops who know next to nothing, and educating yourself before diving into ANY build can be nothing but beneficial. Blindly following whatever your shop says and just writing them checks for thousands of dollars without knowing what is going on is ****ing retarded if you ask me...and is just BEGGING for problems like this.

rant over

Now, getting back to your problems...FMICs don't cause overheating, problems with your setup causes overheating. I've had a TXS FMIC on my 05 for years, built motor, rotated 30r, and have NEVER ONCE come close to overheating. And yes, I still have the stock gigantic 05 hood scoop, it doesn't matter.

It may be time for you to either:
1) Find a new shop
or
2) Start researching for yourself and stop blindly following your shop's advice (something that EVERYBODY who goes with a shop for their build should be doing...)
What do you mean setup because I've read some threads on front mounts and for some reason my car seems to be one of the few that has this problem? I couldn't run the AC after adding the front mount and even now after I switched back to a top mount the ac still struggled today! in 80F on a 50mph stop and go road, squeaking belts and low idle. The engine only has boltons, what part of those boltons could be making the engine hot and struggle? the only other thing I've modified for cooling is cutting the stock turbo heatshield for the downpipe and I think my tuner just took it out. The cooling system had been burped when it went in for dyno run #3 and hasn't been touched since... Really frustrating because I know there are cars more serious than mine in terms of hp and mods and they work better...
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by guroove View Post
Butt dyno likes torque over HP. If getting thrown back in the seat is all that is required for a "fun" car, then smaller turbos are where it's at. I'm guessing from your numbers that the 1st tune was the most fun.
Best post in this thread. Big turbos aren't for everyone. While their top-end is what most guys are looking for, the inability to make torque at lower RPMs is equally unimpressive.

I'm running an VF43 and ethanol in my wagon. I swapped to an HTA68 for a while and hated it, so I switched back to the VF It's just more enjoyable for street usage and every day driving. Power numbers weren't too shabby either - last time I checked, I was sitting at 349awhp / 382awtq.

Just realize that bigger is not always better. Cater your setup to what you like and leave it. People "go wrong" when they don't know where to stop.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:12 PM   #33
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Have you ever thought your car might have other problems and it was just coincidence that they arose the same time you installed your FMIC? How is performance since you've gone back to the TMIC
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Have you ever thought your car might have other problems and it was just coincidence that they arose the same time you installed your FMIC? How is performance since you've gone back to the TMIC
A little better, but minuscule at best. I like the throttle response but the AC still doesn't work well (stopped working altogether with the fmic), the car made over 40ft/lbs less torque with a slightly bigger turbo, higher flowing top mount, short ram, and larger injectors than it did with the stock top mount and stock turbo... We'll see once I get the splitter to come in after this stupid shipping claim goes through. Maybe there will be a slight difference in performance? Probably not...

I just really want to know what the problem is that's causing the car to do so poorly without resorting to something like E85 to make the power shoot up and having to swap tons of parts and retune constantly. My tuner never gave me a straight answer for why it did worse. They said if I turn the boost back up to 23lbs the car should be faster than when it did dyno run 3 because they claim the process west is more efficient than the turbo xs fmic at that 23lbs of boost, but they didn't turn it up for reliability issues... I'm worried they found something wrong with the engine and aren't telling me even though I asked if everything was ok... Really need to take it to a proper Subaru specialist and have them diagnose the car; this tuner has been really good with dynoing and tuning until now. After spending well over $3000 on tuning and labor for the past 3 years you'd think I would get a little bit better service. Maybe this is all the car can do with these "better performing" parts...
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:35 PM   #35
Culti
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I found the dyno sheets as well. In order.

First link has dyno runs 1 and 2:
Just to refresh, run 1 is fuel pump, halman manual boost controller, tial 38mm ewg, amr 2" uel headers, grimmmespeed up-pipe, invidia catted downpipe, invidia n1 race.

Run 2 is all of the above except a turbo xs fmic was added.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...ps82ce5501.jpg

Second link has Dyno run 3:
This run has all of the above except now there is an AMR c70, Deatschwerks 850cc injectors, turboxs short ram.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psbc799aee.jpg

Final link has dyno run 4:
This run again has everything above except the turbo xs fmic has been replaced with a process west top mount (no splitter) and a mishimoto x line radiator. Don't know if it helps or not but the turbo xs fmic had a turbo xs type h valve while the process west has a cobb XLE.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0a828cb4.jpg


Let me know if these work. Thanks.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #36
codesoccer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Culti View Post

What do you mean setup because I've read some threads on front mounts and for some reason my car seems to be one of the few that has this problem? I couldn't run the AC after adding the front mount and even now after I switched back to a top mount the ac still struggled today! in 80F on a 50mph stop and go road, squeaking belts and low idle. The engine only has boltons, what part of those boltons could be making the engine hot and struggle? the only other thing I've modified for cooling is cutting the stock turbo heatshield for the downpipe and I think my tuner just took it out. The cooling system had been burped when it went in for dyno run #3 and hasn't been touched since... Really frustrating because I know there are cars more serious than mine in terms of hp and mods and they work better...
I really don't think any of the mods are causing you to overheat. I'm betting you have something wrong with the cooling system like a pinhole leak or bad thermostat.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:38 PM   #37
Culti
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I really don't think any of the mods are causing you to overheat. I'm betting you have something wrong with the cooling system like a pinhole leak or bad thermostat.
hmmm, because when the car went in for the turbo change they changed the thermostat because of my issues i told them about and they found that the one in there was bad. Could it have gone bad again in a year? Because even after they changed it the car still had those heating problems.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:46 AM   #38
kellygnsd
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... Or the T-stat wasn't bad in the first place but they changed it anyway thinking it would help. Did they actually test the T-stat or did they just assume based on the symptoms?
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:53 AM   #39
the suicidal eggroll
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Could also be something like a bad radiator cap not holding the pressure. When you did the rad, did you swap to aftermarket fans as well? Slim fans are known to cause problems on our cars, you should always stay with stock.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:59 AM   #40
the suicidal eggroll
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they claim the process west is more efficient than the turbo xs fmic at that 23lbs of boost
Lol, that made me chuckle. A stock location TMIC will never be more efficient than a good FMIC. No matter how well it's designed, you just can't get around the core size restrictions and flow limitations in the stock location. A TMIC may be perfectly adequate, and given your turbo size and the improved throttle response from a TMIC it may even be the better option, but it's not going to be more efficient.

Again, it sounds like either the shop doesn't know what they're doing or they're just trying to take your money.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:16 AM   #41
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... Or the T-stat wasn't bad in the first place but they changed it anyway thinking it would help. Did they actually test the T-stat or did they just assume based on the symptoms?
They said it was bad and replaced it anyway. It did run cooler but still hot. The old one was sticky and not opening all the time.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:18 AM   #42
Culti
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Could also be something like a bad radiator cap not holding the pressure. When you did the rad, did you swap to aftermarket fans as well? Slim fans are known to cause problems on our cars, you should always stay with stock.
My dad and I put the radiator in last summer around august. Stayed with stock fans because I heard about those slim fans. My tuner also noticed when the did the turbo that the system had air pockets in it and they flushed it out. I've never checked it since then.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:45 AM   #43
dstroy
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You should burp it, like I posted earlier. It's easy to do.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:41 PM   #44
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Just dropped a mishimoto racing thermostat in and it's been working well. I think the car has been running normal temp the whole time, the ac was throwing me off. I thought the ac wasn't working because the car had problems with temp. but it was just a bad compressor. F***ing subaru dealers are crap. 3 of them told me it was the mods fault, what do you expect though.... local shop figured it out in 30 mins.

Back to power.... Does anyone think my setup could run higher numbers on safe boost? My tuner said 23lbs was/could cause knock? Which is why they turned it down, but why to 19???? dodging my questions. w.e. Their comment about making the engine more efficient goes like this. "Cars are normally supposed to run more hp than tq", but how is it more efficient when it's lower power and tq levels than when it was just an exhaust? IDK. I'm gonna call some shops in the area and get more opinions.

Am I wrong in thinking the car should be making more tq with an upgraded top mount intake, turbo, and injectors than when the car just had an exhaust? Where is the logic in that?
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:51 PM   #45
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Change shops, burp coolant.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:58 AM   #46
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Most of the results i see on here say otherwise. Our cars tend to run more tq than hp after a tune. In some cases the difference is pretty significant, especially at lower power levels, i.e., stage II.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:44 AM   #47
dstroy
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Dude, burp your coolant, and you never actually said what your temp was when it spiked. Put an fmic back on there and run 23psi all day. And switch shops/tuners.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #48
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IDK why they would do this now though? I've been a customer for over 3 years, dropped well over $3000 on parts, labor, and tuning with them, followed their advice. Baffles me, but the car definitely does not run right, not at all....

Anyone know good SUBARU tuners in the Philly area. I've heard how much people love EFI Logics and how they do great work but i'd like to see if there are any local ones first that are Subaru specialists before going all the way up to connecticut. None of the AWD tuner crap or EVO tuners. Done with that.

Also, switched back to top mount because of inspection and safety. I wish I could have run the fmic but my parents still have a say on that stuff so it went.... The coolant only spiked twice in stop and go. Once with AC and Oil temps were above 220. Although when i was doing over 100-110 continuously for about 20 mins the oil temp got to 235 but coolant stayed in operating range toward the bottom. The car also got really hot when AC started to go on. This was another problem I think we may have fixed but wanted to get some input. I had the Mishimoto X Line Radiator when I ran the FMIC. Car never had temp spikes after that and my tuner actually found that I had a sticky thermostat which was in both times the temp spiked. Never did after they changed it. I went to a local shop after Subaru refused to look at the car 3 times. (F***in dealers...) and said that the radiator was actually causing the new AC compressors they were putting in, to fail. The fans couldn't draw enough cool air through the large radiator. So the condenser was getting too hot and frying AC compressors. Has anyone ever experienced this? I have been having terrible luck with the car lately...

Finally, I have a turbo xs short ram in with no kind of air block off on it . Do you guys think the car would make more power with a CAI in rather than a short ram? I've heard short rams can cause torque drop because of the hot air it sucks in
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:02 PM   #49
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Hey man, just wanted to chime in here, I can't help with the tuning issue but can tell you your fmic is not causing the overheating issue. I live in Vegas and have a fmic with all stock cooling system, no overheating even in 120 degree temps running my a/c. You need to make sure your system is bled properly with no leaks whatsoever. Check your fans for proper operation and make sure your ac condenser isn't clogged with debris. But most likely your temp sensor is sensing steam while its spiking which would mean air in the system.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:09 PM   #50
Culti
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Yeah idk wtf is happening. I have it at a shop right now and they said there is definitely something wrong with the system. I was running the mishimoto x line rad but the shop thought that the fans were not powerful enough to pull air through and it was causing the condenser to get hot and burn the compressor up.... so i switched back to stock and they tried testing it today... same problem, the fans cant keep the condenser cool. The car is essentially on the stock cooling system, even a racing thermostat! what else could be wrong? Bad fans? Do I need custom ones? Sensors not powering the fans enough? The shop hasn't found any leaks or anything but Im extremely aggravated because this has been about a 2 year problem....
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