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Old 06-18-2013, 11:01 PM   #1
ToddMcF2002
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Default Sanity Check vs. Tuner

Talked to my tuner today (very reputable) and he recommended an 18g for my stock internals Bugeye. He wasn't too enthusiastic about my VF43 idea. First off, I'm not questioning his advise on what will make the most power. I just wanted to do a Nasioc sanity check on what this means for high RPM boost and longevity. My concern is that the 18g can hold 21PSI near redline. The VF43 is going to taper to 17.5ish. Can these motors really handle 21PSI up there? Based on Dynos I've seen the VF43 can hit 280/300 or so. The 18g is more like 320/320 target. I'm wondering if the extra 50hp is worth the risk?

Supporting Mods Currently Installed:
- 3" Silicone Turbo Inlet (I presume ebay)
- Megan downpipe with Magnaflow 59959 200 Cell HFC
- JNA 3" full cat back (Cobb wannabie)
- catless uppipe
- Hallman MBC (probably going to revert to stock on this)

My compression numbers came is OK'ish at 120/120/130/130. Nothing tragic but pretty borderline. They didn't bother the tuner much.



Supporting Mods Planned:
STI TMIC
Walbro
750cc Injectors
A final decision on my intake dilemma. (for the VF43 stock is fine)

Opinions?
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:18 AM   #2
cosseywrx
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I ran stock ej205 with a greddy 18g @20psi and motor had 50k or so and that lasted me about 10k miles. I spun a bearing and overheated the block.

Now its built and im not to worried.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:19 AM   #3
cosseywrx
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I also have a Megan dp and i plan on swapping with a cobb or invidia.

I say this cuz my dp will turn blue when im running my turbo hard. Its a thin and cheap dp.

UPGRADE IT.

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:43 AM   #4
ToddMcF2002
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I just welded a cat to it . I've been considering dumping the whole thing for a Cobb for better fitment - I do want to save the cat though.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:00 AM   #5
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These motors can handle to about a td06 20G. I'm surprised they said dont go with a vf, theyre great daily driver turbos at a reasonable price.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
My concern is that the 18g can hold 21PSI near redline.
Then set the MBC lower than 21psi or change the MBC for a 3 port and add any taper you want down to wastegate pressure.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #7
ToddMcF2002
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I think the tuner was trying to say that the VF would leave power on the table vs. an 18g. It seems going with his recommendation and tapering would allow me to hedge against engine failure. If it blows up anyway I could rebuild to properly handle 21psi and remove the 18g taper. If I go with VF and do a stout build later I'll need to switch turbos. Thoughts on that logic?
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:06 PM   #8
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Well with the 18g you dont have to push 20psi. The VF would have to push it to 20or more just to match what an 18g could do with 16psi. Get an AP Tune a concervative 17psi tune and another map for the occasional 20psi. or like said above a MBC can help but AP can be safer as all other values of different things can be changed. With those injectors might as well get outta the VF an move up
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:37 PM   #9
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I've been running my bugeye at 20psi from an Evo3-16g for 45K miles. Recently bumped up the boost to 24psi tapering to 22 after switching to e85. So your motor can handle it..

As stated above, the 18g will produce cooler boost than the vf43 at any boost level. The death of these motors is pre-detonation, generally caused by extreme heat. You'd be safer to be in mid-range boost on the 18g, then top end of the vf43.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:32 PM   #10
BONFIRE074
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ran my 18g at 20psi on pump gas for a few years, and 25psi on race...awesome combo
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #11
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your tuner thinks bigger is better......dont fall for it
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #12
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just turned 250k on my 2.0 with vf30..

is your tuner going to pay for engine build?..doubt it.

install vf43 and no more than 18 psi..
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:22 PM   #13
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Yeah I talked to a different tuner and he has a very attractive hybrid option with cnc'ed lower compression heads, forged internals and better oil pan/pickup. My current thinking is leaning towards the 18g and well... eff the motor. Let her implode and go hybrid when it does. They say they've built a dozen without issue with proper head work. He suggested the hybrid failures and tuning issues were pretty much head and condition related - meaning too high compression and driveway builds.

So... I'll keep the boost on the 18g within reason to keep the 2.0 alive as long as possible. Who knows maybe with proper synth 15w 40 it will hold together for a while.

I'm just waiting on my local mechanic (not the tuner) to solve a coil pack / plug issue causing a misfire. I swung by yesterday and he was leaning over my engine bay holding a wrench in one hand and a can of Busch beer in the other. Should I worry?
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:53 PM   #14
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I don't understand why you are worrying about psi. Worry about tq and power. Detonation, spun bearings, and piston/rod failure is going to destroy your engine. Not boost, at least not that low of boost. I'd say run the 18g. Depending on what hotside you get it might not even be able to hold that much to redline and still be efficient anyway. You can always use a ebcs to limit the boost. You could go ultra conservative 15psi on a daily gas saving map and 21psi on a fun map. If you go built engine you could throw E85 and 25-26psi and get even more power out if it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Yeah I talked to a different tuner and he has a very attractive hybrid option with cnc'ed lower compression heads, forged internals and better oil pan/pickup. My current thinking is leaning towards the 18g and well... eff the motor. Let her implode and go hybrid when it does. They say they've built a dozen without issue with proper head work. He suggested the hybrid failures and tuning issues were pretty much head and condition related - meaning too high compression and driveway builds.

So... I'll keep the boost on the 18g within reason to keep the 2.0 alive as long as possible. Who knows maybe with proper synth 15w 40 it will hold together for a while.

I'm just waiting on my local mechanic (not the tuner) to solve a coil pack / plug issue causing a misfire. I swung by yesterday and he was leaning over my engine bay holding a wrench in one hand and a can of Busch beer in the other. Should I worry?
there is no 15w40 syn oil....and your transmission is the next weak link
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:10 AM   #16
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um prob should be worrying since your paying him to drink and not fix ****. you should prob be able to do the small coilpack **** like that before you go and want to get a larger turbo and doing engine rebuilds.

as far as an oil we have beat the **** out of many subarus on trackdays w/ rotella t6 w/o a problem. not going to turn this into an oil debate but many companies make 15w-40 full syn oil. google provided me with 1/2 million results for such search....
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:12 AM   #17
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Been running 26psi on a stock LB ej205 at 375whp with 110k miles for over 7 months now. Before then 21psi for 3.5 years. No issues. As long as the motor/tune is not experiencing detonation and you are not driving it hard until your oil/engine is fully warmed up. As well as you are taking good care of it. It should hold together.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
there is no 15w40 syn oil....and your transmission is the next weak link
Lucas, Redline, Royal Purple, and Amsoil all make full synthetic 15w40, I believe motul does as well but I'm not certain. T6 5w40 or M1 0w40 are probably better choices though.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:15 AM   #19
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going to agree with the above as well. we ran a gt28r on a ej205 w/ 172k miles at 28psi. 10k miles later the exh valve chipped w/ the cruise control on the highway. friend went with a ej25 and the engine sat for 2 years. then a friend needed a shortblock and used it for 6 months with a td04. got his ej25 together and sold the shortblock to someone who needed it and its still running. td04 tune currently but it shows the engines are built well. just needs to be taken care of and good oil/interval changes.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullV View Post
Lucas, Redline, Royal Purple, and Amsoil all make full synthetic 15w40, I believe motul does as well but I'm not certain. T6 5w40 or M1 0w40 are probably better choices though.

shoulda said 'commonly available'

and it would be pointless and useless to use it...as it is pointless to buy and use those boutique oils that dont do anything for you but make you p00r and others rich
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:37 AM   #21
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Scotty, what oil do you suggest? I've looked at the oil threads and there a 1000's of opinions but I never came across you suggesting a specific oil.

I was planning Rotella 15w-40 for summer and 5w-40 for winter. The Rotella "plan" came from another MA area poster and I thought the logic was sound. However, it looks like if I want Rotella synth I'd have to use T5 10w40...
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Scotty, what oil do you suggest? I've looked at the oil threads and there a 1000's of opinions but I never came across you suggesting a specific oil.

I was planning Rotella 15w-40 for summer and 5w-40 for winter. The Rotella "plan" came from another MA area poster and I thought the logic was sound. However, it looks like if I want Rotella synth I'd have to use T5 10w40...

you can use the t6 5w40 year round.....its a fools move to switch oils like that..waste of time...pointless

and remember.....the t6 only comes in 1gal=4qt jugs...ya gotta buy another quart to go with it...using a quart of the 0w40 or 5w40 M1 mixed would be a great way to go
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #23
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Thanks for the advise - much appreciated.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Thanks for the advise - much appreciated.

and if your local walmart has the 0w40 M1 in the 5qt jug for the same price as has been posted here recently...~$23/5qt...then THAT is the best bang for the buck oil deal that I know of

dont be afraid to run it to 5k-6k change interval..... remember...the 3k mile oil change interval was invented by jiffy lube to make idiots spend $$$$ needlessly
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:15 PM   #25
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+1 for T6. I love it. Switched from mobil1 after I spun a bearing at 60k. I'm at 150k with no complaints. Seems to make the engine run quieter too. Walmart has the best price where I am @ ~22 $ for a gallon. Most auto parts want around 27.
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