Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 11, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-2013, 03:09 AM   #151
rob1n1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276425
Join Date: Mar 2011
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
Because not everyone has "VIP pricing." MSRP on an optioned-out STi Limited is around $40k before TTT.
Plus a lot of states have sales tax. Washington for example is almost 10%. That plus titling and registration... It's a $40k car at least.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
rob1n1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:24 AM   #152
Skanky
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 10434
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Toronto
Vehicle:
2006 Impretsah STi
Aspen white

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geddesk2
Where are you guys getting the 40k price for the Sti limited? With VIP pricing I was able to get mine with nav for about 36k. That's not a smoking deal or anything but I've never heard of anyone paying 40k for an Sti.

I have seen folks pay over 40k for a fully loaded evo MR though, including a few folks at my work.
Up here in Canada a loaded STi is in the mid 50k range with taxes. So it is very expensive.
Skanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:33 AM   #153
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

We have to compare sticker to sticker... Not what kind of deal you can get. I did not pay sticker for my R. Not even close. But for comparisons sake, I have the 4 door with sunroof and navi, which is 36515. Naturally I paid less than that. But if I want to compare apples to apples, an STI limited (sedan) is north of 38684.

You will probably pay less for the STI when you are done negociating. But the R has more features and costs less.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:37 AM   #154
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
Again, why are you comparing it to the more expensive STI instead of the WRX? It might still be "superior" to the WRX but certainly not the financial deal you are arguing.
Just comparing top of the line vs top of the line. No other reason. One could compare it to a WRX limited if they wish, but then you cannot say the Subaru is better in all dynamic situations. I would say out of the box the R handles better and has stronger fade free brakes than the WRX. To me the R slides in between the WRX and STI in performance and is ahead of both in features and fit an finish.

One may certainly cross shop the WRX vs R. I just sold my 2011 WRX hatch to buy the R. So to me, the comparison was STI or R.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:47 AM   #155
express_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68346
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
1996 LC
2014 JK

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
We have to compare sticker to sticker... Not what kind of deal you can get. I did not pay sticker for my R. Not even close. But for comparisons sake, I have the 4 door with sunroof and navi, which is 36515. Naturally I paid less than that. But if I want to compare apples to apples, an STI limited (sedan) is north of 38684.

You will probably pay less for the STI when you are done negociating. But the R has more features and costs less.

Why don't you just share what you paid then?
express_wagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 09:39 AM   #156
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

sure, I paid 35100
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:13 AM   #157
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: utah
Vehicle:
.... OT Supplement
Testing Division.

Default

Honestly, until you sit in and drive an R or even a gti, I personally can't take someone's opinion of it seriously. It's like looking at the exterior of a house and judging its price. Outside may look okay, but once you get inside its absolutely amazing.

Scrappy, how do you like the seats of your R? Random question.
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:38 AM   #158
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Ultra comfy. They have incredible lateral grip without making you feel like you are in a pair of vice grips (Like the Focus ST Recaro's or the Mazda RX-8 R3 seats). The leather is thick but compliant. The headrest is supple. The seats adjust fairly easily. The front back of the seat is manual, as is the height adjustment, but the reclining is power. In cold weather they go from cold to warm in 4:38 seconds.

To me the STI seats were too open and flat and allowed too much movement (although the material probably did a great job of holding you in). But to me they were closer to benches than sport buckets, the Focus ST is the other extreme where you felt wedged in where the seat was constantly present. The R was the honestly the perfect spacing, pading, etc. You do not notice the seat until you go into a curve and then you just do not move, the start to feel the seat do its job without being uncomfortable at all.

Yes, they were one of the reasons I bought the car.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #159
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Ultra comfy. They have incredible lateral grip without making you feel like you are in a pair of vice grips (Like the Focus ST Recaro's or the Mazda RX-8 R3 seats). The leather is thick but compliant. The headrest is supple. The seats adjust fairly easily. The front back of the seat is manual, as is the height adjustment, but the reclining is power. In cold weather they go from cold to warm in 4:38 seconds.

To me the STI seats were too open and flat and allowed too much movement (although the material probably did a great job of holding you in). But to me they were closer to benches than sport buckets, the Focus ST is the other extreme where you felt wedged in where the seat was constantly present. The R was the honestly the perfect spacing, pading, etc. You do not notice the seat until you go into a curve and then you just do not move, the start to feel the seat do its job without being uncomfortable at all.

Yes, they were one of the reasons I bought the car.
Good comparison. I love my ST seats! I think they are the best stock seats out there in a car short of $50k (not that I've driven everything, but you know what I mean). It's a decade later, but they really blown the Evo 8 Recaros out of the water. I'm also down to 155lbs, so there's that.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #160
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I was at 195 when I drove the ST... If I were down to my normal 180 I may have been more comfy, but it was snug on me in the shoulders. I am wide framed more than I am waist 'enhanced'.

SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 09:53 PM   #161
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: utah
Vehicle:
.... OT Supplement
Testing Division.

Default

I really cant complain with my gti seats. They could use a little bit more bolster support, but overall pretty comfy. Damn seats heat up pretty quick and my ass is on fire.
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 10:31 PM   #162
Skylab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, Ca
Default

And to boot, the Golf TDI seats are quite bolstered.
Same as GTI, minus the plaid design.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #163
utekineir
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 233758
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: 01440
Vehicle:
0513 fxtfrs
silver

Default

Spend a lot of time in golfs (few in family) the interior feel is something you absolutely don't get from subarus. 37 steps to change an air filter or remove a door panel is something subarus don't have either though. Each platform has clear advantages and disadvantages, the vws are by far a better dd, just not nearly as shade tree moron tinker friendly.

Seat wise the mkv/vi leathers are bolstered pretty nice (r32, leather gti, golf r are all pretty much same seat minus some variations in cost cutting). I had a set of those and the cloth for many miles.

I actually prefer the gr sti seats swapped into my forester. Only because of my portions though (6'3 250ish).
utekineir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 10:57 PM   #164
ogboot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170906
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Damn seats heat up pretty quick and my ass is on fire.
That's not the seats...
ogboot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #165
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I was at 195 when I drove the ST... If I were down to my normal 180 I may have been more comfy, but it was snug on me in the shoulders. I am wide framed more than I am waist 'enhanced'.

My buddy sat in the car for the first time last night. His first comment was that the seats were not designed for Americans.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 12:44 AM   #166
Pre
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
CEO- Wagon Mafia

Default

Drove a 2013 3dr today as a benchmark. It's quick but needs 30-40 more HP to feel fluid, it was straining a little bit. After all of Scrappy's comments I was a little underwhelmed at the interior or "refinements". I love the look of it though (exterior). Stereo was good but other than that and the flat bottomed steering wheel the interior was much the same as my '12 TDi JSW except with bolstered seats. Nothing I would write home about either way and I was looking for all the refinements, especially when it has a manual seat and steering wheel.

I did like the centered exhaust pipes and they tuned the exhaust nicely from the factory, sounded great. Compared to my '08 STi it's slow to build revs in the midrange. You could tell the power difference pretty easily stock to stock.
Brakes were good and steering was decent. I feel if it were a few k less it would be on point. A little overpriced in my opinion.

Stealer rep said the new one will be built in Mehico, which explains why they have stated it will be a little cheaper in MSRP.

They offered $34k and it had Nav/sunroof so they are mostly stagnating on lots. I look forward to the new one. The current one is good so the new one should be there and be a real comparison vehicle against the new STi.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 01:39 AM   #167
Skylab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, Ca
Default

^

Two features unnecessary in this vehicle:

Nav and Sunroof

Any vehicle, really.

Does VW deal on these things?
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 09:07 AM   #168
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

yes they do...

You can get 2k off MSRP fairly easily

Pre, it is not that the VW is really refined compared to some other cars out there, all my refinements are in relation when I compare it to the STI. The R is more refined than the STI, but has essentially the same interior as the GTI minus some very small additions. THe R is not more refined than say a Jaguar XF.

I can totally understand your feelings about it since you are coming from a sport wagon of the same make. Lots of parts bin sharing with the VWs. THe differences would be minimal.

Other than that, your points are pretty spot on. It is a bit softer than an STI. An APR stage 1 tune really evens the playing field though I promise. But stock to stock, it is definitely not on pace with a stock STI.

I had to drive it twice to get a real feel for what it was all about. At first I thought the steering was not up to par. But at low speeds it feels one way, and at high speeds it feels much tighter. THe damping is one thing that is spot on though. IN transitions, the car does not flop about. It takes a set quickly. I just wish it had come with summer tires vs the All seasons it came with.

Summer tires from what I hear, really liven up the brakes, and the turn in and steering.

Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 07-06-2013 at 09:14 AM.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 10:42 AM   #169
cannedtuna
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286661
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ/TX
Default

Pre I agree with Scrappy for sure. I truly was comparing the R to a Subaru product in terms of refinement. I think that it's bars above anything that Subaru is putting out. Also, I enjoyed my test drive...I found the power delivery in the R to be more than adequate for me (its smooth and wot does not give you whiplash). The steering to me was fine, I tested it doing a U-turn and I was impressed with the turning radius and the fact that power was there at that low rpm to power me out of the turn quickly enough, before the cars that were coming could hit me.

Hey could it be better? Sure, but IMO it makes all the right compromises to offer us a very good all around vehicle. Tell Subaru that you want more soft touch material and they'd probably laugh, followed by having Tom Doll give a speech about "love" or "confidence in motion." Good stuff but in the end it's just a sales pitch.
cannedtuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 12:42 PM   #170
Radeon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 105251
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Vehicle:
13 BRZ,STI

Default

I tested '12 R about a year ago then drove '13 R shortly before ordering an STI.

I have no idea why people would compare it to the STI. It's a bit better than the Limited WRX inside. First time I sat in the R was when I still had my spec.b, and I was totally unimpressed. With all the talk about interior quality it didn't (and still doesn't?) have seat position memory,for example. It's better than the interior of the 'Limited WRX', but not 'in the other league', as some people here tend to put it.

Performance-wise, I'm yet to see anything that would put it above limited WRX. So it really competes with Limited WRX. And the trade-off you get is 'a bit nicer interior' vs 'a bit crappier AWD'. And a way higher price.

And good luck flashing your R's. 'Mod-friendly' dealership means nothing, WV has them scan your ECUs during regular maintenance visits, and then quietly flags your car with TD1 flag, meaning you're F'ed if you need service and also F'ed when you're selling your car, since buyers of second-hand ones will be looking if that flag is set in the database.
Radeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #171
cannedtuna
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286661
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ/TX
Default

Radeon, lets be honest we like Subaru and in many cases its the best bang for the buck; but it's not always the best buy. Also I'm not going to pretend that the R is the most refined car, but it is better than anything Subaru makes, that is a fact that is easily proven by a novice shopper. Simply compare the interior bits....when your dash is rattling (how do I know this? I drive a 2011 Impreza and owned a 06 STI) alot goes out of the window.

And the dealership experience Subaru's are not immune. The ECU leaves a time stamp after any flashing. It really depends if the dealer even cares to make a deal out of it.
cannedtuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 04:16 PM   #172
XanRules
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Rustletech Headquarters
Vehicle:
1996 JNCO Jorts
Stonewashed Denim

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
yes they do...

You can get 2k off MSRP fairly easily

Pre, it is not that the VW is really refined compared to some other cars out there, all my refinements are in relation when I compare it to the STI. The R is more refined than the STI, but has essentially the same interior as the GTI minus some very small additions. THe R is not more refined than say a Jaguar XF.

I can totally understand your feelings about it since you are coming from a sport wagon of the same make. Lots of parts bin sharing with the VWs. THe differences would be minimal.

Other than that, your points are pretty spot on. It is a bit softer than an STI. An APR stage 1 tune really evens the playing field though I promise. But stock to stock, it is definitely not on pace with a stock STI.

I had to drive it twice to get a real feel for what it was all about. At first I thought the steering was not up to par. But at low speeds it feels one way, and at high speeds it feels much tighter. THe damping is one thing that is spot on though. IN transitions, the car does not flop about. It takes a set quickly. I just wish it had come with summer tires vs the All seasons it came with.

Summer tires from what I hear, really liven up the brakes, and the turn in and steering.
Do the plaid GTi seats bolt in? I love me some plaid
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 04:23 PM   #173
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I have yet to experience the crappy AWD on my R in real life. IN fact it handles much better than my 2011 WRX did. Even with All seasons... once I get summer tires, I will write a real review...
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 04:24 PM   #174
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I am not knowledgable enough to say for sure Xan, but they share 90% of what inside the cabin, so I see no reason why they would not bolt right in.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 04:39 PM   #175
Pre
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
CEO- Wagon Mafia

Default

Like I said it needs 30-40 more HP for a fluid rev range and its on like Donkey Kong. The new one just got more attractive to me and even though I critiqued the 13 it's a fine car. At some point they will have to deal very hard on remaining inventory. If they would have knocked several grand off the price I would've had a hard think about it and done some research to figure out what mods it was going to need. My dream car would be a 3dr STi for reference, a WRC inspired hatch so the R is closer to what I want but I'm not a huge fan of the traditional inline 4 motor. I would have loved to see VAG turbocharge a V6. I'd be grabbing lotion.

I must remain patient. I'm going to wait on Subaru and let the early adopters report as well as the new Golf R. I sold my STi a little too quickly and I'm going to milk the TDi for every mile of savings for the next 18 months. It's hard waiting though, very hard. I left the checkbook at home on purpose and told myself only if they offer me a ridiculous offer on my trade would I buy. It was 7/10ths of what I want so the new one at 8/10ths is going to be competing hard for my $$$.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.