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Old 07-10-2013, 10:35 AM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Not two weeks ago I asked someone at the FAA (in a completely unofficial capacity) if there were any aircraft makes/models he would avoid getting on if given the choice. He didn't hesitate to name names.
Let's stop doing this cliff hanger ****, mmmkkkay?
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Well, you and Emu were arguing about the merits of different aircraft. I thought it pertinent that someone who does safety evals on AC had an opinion about the matter, and might be of passing interest to some. However, since it was in a completely unofficial capacity, and he doesn't speak for the FAA, I felt it prudent to not anything more specific, lest it be given undue weight.
It's not like you're mentioning the name(s) of your source(s) or going to cause stock in a certain mfg to fall....
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Not two weeks ago I asked someone at the FAA (in a completely unofficial capacity) if there were any aircraft makes/models he would avoid getting on if given the choice. He didn't hesitate to name names.
There are statistics on these things, you know:
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

Mind you, that doesn't separate those accidents caused by pilot error vs those caused by poor maintenance, so it's a bit hard to say whether being lower on that list actually means a plane is less safe.

But generally speaking, small aircraft (like Cessna small) are a lot less safe than big aircraft.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:49 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by dorikin View Post
slides are contained in a small cube shape in the floor. this is so that if you ditch or something and don' want to open a specific door for whatever reason, you can still extract the slide, toss it out another door and inflate to use as a raft, for example.
Depends on airplane configuration and model but generally they are mounted to the door.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:56 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarno View Post
That was pretty evident. What do you do anyway? You seem to be full of aviation-related tidbits lately.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #556
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"As we make our final approach into San Francisco International, please make sure you are seated with your seat belt securely fastened, your tray table and seat back in the fully upright and locked position, and your personal items stowed. If you think we're kidding about all this, look to your left. I swear to GOD I will crash this plane if you don't settle down back there!!"
Thank you. Can't stand it when people say "San Fran"...
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:26 PM   #557
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NTSB Update

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On Jul 10th 2013 the NTSB reported in their fourth press conference, that the captain under supervision and training captain had flown the takeoff from Seoul, had taken about 5 hours of rest enroute and took their seats again about 90 minutes prior to landing. During the last 2.5 minutes of flight there were multiple autopilot and multiple autothrust modes. The various modes needs to be assessed to see whether they were result of single pilot actions or result of interconnected system responses. The aircraft received landing clearance about 1.5nm before touchdown. Six of twelve flight attendants are still in hospital care and were not interviewed so far. The flight attendants at doors 1R and 2L were pinned by evacuation slides deploying into the cabin. 3 of four flight attendants at the rear doors were ejected from the aircraft together with their seats. None of the passenger seats were ejected from the aircraft. The six uninjured flight attendants were interviewed and reported that after the aircraft came to a stop, one of the flight attendants at 1L went to the cockpit and checked with flight crew whether an evacuation should be initiated, the flight crew instructed to not initiate the evacuation. The flight attendants at 2R saw fire outside the aircraft near seat row 10, consistent with the position of the right hand engine's position adjacent to the fuselage, and initiated the evacuation. 90 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop door 2L closely followed by 1L opened and the evacuation began. 120 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop the first emergency responders arrived on scene, about 150 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop the first fire agent was applied to the right hand side by emergency services. Emergency services entered the aircraft with a hose and attempted to fight the fire from the inside of the aircraft as well as assisted in the passenger evacuation. While trying to liberate the pinned flight attendants emergency services observed fire coming in from the window/fuselage. The NTSB is probably going to release runway 28L to the airport within the next 24 hours. In an interview with Korean Authorities the pilot flying reported that a flash of light occurred at 500 feet which temporarily blinded him, the NTSB confirmed that this was mentioned in their interview as a temporary event, too.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:30 PM   #558
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Flash of light? Are we looking at TWA800 event?

1R and 2L... arent those a bit far away from each other? which would indicate 2 slides malfunction?

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/com...s/7772sec2.pdf
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:31 PM   #559
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aliens
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #560
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Flash of light? LASER?
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:45 PM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveUlysses View Post
Depends on airplane configuration and model but generally they are mounted to the door.
Check the 777 and 737 diagram I posted earlier.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:12 PM   #562
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Here's another article

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The two main pilots on Asiana Airlines Flight 214, the jetliner that crash-landed at San Francisco International Airport Saturday, had each gotten eight hours of sleep the night before their trip to San Francisco, says the National Transportation Safety Board.
The agency's chief, Deborah Hersman, provided that information and other updates to the media and the public on the investigation into the crash that killed two passengers and injured dozens.
Here are details from today's briefing:
The flying pilot had the day off before the flight began. He says he got 8 hours of sleep, and came to the airport six hours before the flight. He was in the cockpit about 30 minutes before the trip began.
The instructor pilot also says he had 8 hours of sleep, and spent some time relaxing with his family. He came to the airport at 2:20 p.m.
In the cockpit, the two main pilots worked about 4 hours and 15 minutes, and then the relief crew of another two pilots took over for the middle of the flight. The original two pilots came back for the final hour and a half of the trip.
The flying pilot says that he saw a flash of bright light that temporarily blinded him, at around 400 or 500 feet. Hersman says they're looking into possible causes.
Update at 5:55 p.m. ET:
Hersman goes over where the 12 flight attendants were sitting. The flight attendant who was leading the crew was at the front. Two attendants were pinned by one or more emergency ramps; both were hospitalized, one with a broken bone in her leg.
In , Hersman said flight attendants had been ejected from the plane. She speaks more about that today; she also clarifies that all passenger seating remained on the aircraft.
The seatbelts in business class had both shoulder and lap belts, Hersman says. Passengers in the rear cabin had lap belts only.
The first emergency response teams arrived at the scene within five minutes.
The flight attendants say they directed passengers to exits that seemed most efficient; they also tried to fight fires, and worked to free those who had been pinned.
Hersman says investigators have not yet spoken to all the flight attendants, especially those who remain in the hospital. They are also hoping to speak to any passengers who wish to talk.
"The NTSB will likely be releasing the runway" in the next 24 hours, and possibly tonight, Hersman says.
Update at 5:40 p.m. ET: On Automation And Plane's Approach
Referring to a slideshow of the plane's approach to the airport over the water, Hersman describes how the plane came in.
At 11:26, Asiana 214 checked in for final approach, and did not get an immediate reply. They soon checked in again, and were given a landing clearance — when the plane "was about a mile-and-a-half from the threshold," Hersman says.
The evidence shows that "in the last two and a half minutes of the flight," there were multiple modes enabled of auto-pilot and auto-throttle, Hersman says.
Our original post continues:
Of airliners' automatic systems, Hersman says "They can be simple, or they can be sophisticated."
In the the Boeing 777's case, they're sophisticated, she says. But she adds that pilots can fly by hand, taking off, traveling, and landing without any automation if they choose.
On the other hand, "You can have limited visibility — you can not be able to approach the airport in visible conditions — and the airplane can land itself."
She says that automation "can help maintain a level of safety and efficiency in the cockpit," noting that the systems can conserve fuel.
"Pilots are trained to monitor," Hersman says. And they designate between two pilots, with one flying and one monitoring.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-investigation
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:14 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by Vectors2Final View Post
It's like it's barely news.

They were well rested. This seems like an error, pure and simple.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:28 PM   #564
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Now suddenly there was a blinding flash of light?

APFSS is more like it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:10 PM   #565
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Anyone else ever read Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor?
Quote:
In one staged accident, Clark and Chavez blind two incoming Japanese AWACS pilots with a high-intensity light and cause them to crash on landing. A fictitious technical warning of a problem with the automatic landing system was used to create the impression that the attack was an accident.
Apparently the dude's a prophet.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Anyone else ever read Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor?
And at the end of the book they crash a full loaded airliner into the Capitol destroying it.

Simpsons, whoops, Clancy did it
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:13 PM   #567
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I've seen a couple musings of the idea that Snowdon was on the plane (which makes zero sense) and that it was brought down by the FBI to stop him. Conspiracy theory AHOY!
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:14 PM   #568
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Originally Posted by Thumper23 View Post
And at the end of the book they crash a full loaded airliner into the Capitol destroying it.

Simpsons, whoops, Clancy did it
Dale Brown did it better. both published in 94.

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Old 07-10-2013, 08:32 PM   #569
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You know, I think that's one of the only Dale Brown books I haven't read.

Flight of the Old Dog, yep, love it
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:44 PM   #570
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Larry Bond > Dale Brown.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:14 PM   #571
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I don't think my question was addressed.


"It's a huge runway, and the pilots didn't find it odd that the plane was over 30 knots below normal landing speed?"

Due to automated landings?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
I don't think my question was addressed.


"It's a huge runway, and the pilots didn't find it odd that the plane was over 30 knots below normal landing speed?"

Due to automated landings?
So what's your question?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #573
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No auto-land with the instruments being out of service.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:23 PM   #574
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Are pilots relying too much on automation now?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:23 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by BigWrecKs View Post
Are pilots relying too much on automation now?
I think that's the general gist being portrayed in connection with this incident.
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