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Old 07-23-2013, 09:10 PM   #4551
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You might be right about the tuning, I would like to see it tried. I understanding what your point is about the legacy compared with the other cars. However the other cars are not using the Subaru cvt transmissions. Maybe I didn't explain my theory as I see it. I am wondering legacy compared to impreza, what the factor is that makes the cvt impreza more finicky than the cvt legacy with regards to mpg in real world driving. This is based, of course ;-) with the findings by CR. I am thinking the culprit is the 2.0. It might be able to be fixed by tuning, however I doubt it. My thinking is that the 2.0, albeit sufficient to power the impreza in an urban pedestrian kind of way, requires more load to motivate in other environments. That's not saying its not able to, it just has to work harder to do it than the 2.5. I'm not sure a harder working 2.0 is more efficient than an easier working 2.5.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:32 PM   #4552
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Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
WOW!!!! I will just add my .02 in a simple manner. The CVT in this car sucks. There is no sport in my sport limited and there is no great gas mileage either. How does anybody think the CVT is fun to drive, oh man. It is a crappy excuse for an economical solution but is actually an epic fail for real world driving. Paddle shifters are a joke - all they do is hurt the mileage while providing nothing. Uggh!
Why did you buy the car then? Didn't you test drive it? You're the only one to blame if you did not properly test and research the car before buying it. Don't get me wrong, i never said that the car was fun to drive but for me it does exactly what i was expecting which is great mpgs and awd capabilities.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:16 PM   #4553
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I forget - CVT or 5MT?

Also, why does Hawaii have an Interstate Highway?

CVT.

Federal rules. Not unique to Hawaii, either.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/hawaii.cfm
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:19 PM   #4554
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Originally Posted by Caocao View Post
Why did you buy the car then? Didn't you test drive it? You're the only one to blame if you did not properly test and research the car before buying it. Don't get me wrong, i never said that the car was fun to drive but for me it does exactly what i was expecting which is great mpgs and awd capabilities.
I test drove it and it drove fine. I haven't had a chance to test the AWD the way I would like, but I suspect it does okay in that respect.

However, "research" said it gets the same highway mpg as my old commuter, which is a long way from the truth.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:01 AM   #4555
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My dealer drove mine around and had it ready for me to drive it. I sat in the seat, and got back out and went to business office. I didn't even drive it, but was in and out in just over an hour.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:30 AM   #4556
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Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
You might be right about the tuning, I would like to see it tried. I understanding what your point is about the legacy compared with the other cars. However the other cars are not using the Subaru cvt transmissions. Maybe I didn't explain my theory as I see it. I am wondering legacy compared to impreza, what the factor is that makes the cvt impreza more finicky than the cvt legacy with regards to mpg in real world driving. This is based, of course ;-) with the findings by CR. I am thinking the culprit is the 2.0. It might be able to be fixed by tuning, however I doubt it. My thinking is that the 2.0, albeit sufficient to power the impreza in an urban pedestrian kind of way, requires more load to motivate in other environments. That's not saying its not able to, it just has to work harder to do it than the 2.5. I'm not sure a harder working 2.0 is more efficient than an easier working 2.5.
IDK, the new 2.0 is much more efficient than the 2.5 it replaced (the previous generation impreza got the mpg's of some full sized SUV's -- think about that for a minute, given the size of the car -- I certainly did, because I never would have bought a small car that got such lousy mileage as an everyday driver).

If they put the redesigned 2.5 from the Forester in it, it would not get 36mpg HWY. Since it is competing with mostly cars that claim 40mpg HWY, this is a problem, the same problem the previous generation Impreza had, as in it was not competitive mpg-wise with cars in the same vehicle class. The improvements in efficiency have a lot to do with Consumer Reports recommending the Impreza, two years on...

As far as the CVT vs 5 speed, vis a vis HWY mpg's, keep in mind that stevenhnm likes to promote his 'theory' that 5 speeds get better HWY mpg's as a fact.

5 Speeds do not get better HWY mpg's than CVT's. While it 'might' for some drivers, that has less to do with the transmission than with the driver. The EPA, Fuelly, and reports on NASIOC all show the highest possible mpg's (meeting and exceeding EPA HWY numbers) are being reported from those that drive CVT equipped Impreza's.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:10 AM   #4557
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I forget - CVT or 5MT?

Also, why does Hawaii have an Interstate Highway?

One thing I have noticed with the CVT is flooring it does not seem to make it accelerate harder, there appears to be a sweet spot about 3/4 of the way between that the CVT downshifts better than full flooring it.

Loved the H1, fastest way to get from the sub base to makaha for the surf or out to the point to the antenna farm for maintenance or out to kunia tunnel during defcon changes.
Actually it was so they could get federal funds to build it, I always thought it was funny too. Relatives who came to visit used to ask me how long it took to drive to the other islands. What can I say, it was the 70's.

One other thing, back when I was in field service CR was one of my customers out on LI, their entire facility was there including their 'test track' where they got their mileage numbers from, now long island is the flattest piece of realestate you will find in the North east, no surprise they get good gas mileage.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:26 AM   #4558
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IDK, the new 2.0 is much more efficient than the 2.5 it replaced (the previous generation impreza got the mpg's of some full sized SUV's -- think about that for a minute, given the size of the car -- I certainly did, because I never would have bought a small car that got such lousy mileage as an everyday driver).

If they put the redesigned 2.5 from the Forester in it, it would not get 36mpg HWY. Since it is competing with mostly cars that claim 40mpg HWY, this is a problem, the same problem the previous generation Impreza had, as in it was not competitive mpg-wise with cars in the same vehicle class. The improvements in efficiency have a lot to do with Consumer Reports recommending the Impreza, two years on...

As far as the CVT vs 5 speed, vis a vis HWY mpg's, keep in mind that stevenhnm likes to promote his 'theory' that 5 speeds get better HWY mpg's as a fact.

5 Speeds do not get better HWY mpg's than CVT's. While it 'might' for some drivers, that has less to do with the transmission than with the driver. The EPA, Fuelly, and reports on NASIOC all show the highest possible mpg's (meeting and exceeding EPA HWY numbers) are being reported from those that drive CVT equipped Impreza's.
So you bought a 5 speed for the mileage, yet continue to bash those who don't think the CVT gets appropriate mpg although you have no personal knowledge other than results of the EPA method tests done by Subaru (you really should take a class in reading graphs) while ignoring the CR comparison with other cars getting equivalent mpg on real roads. You continue to spew that a few people on this list like the mpg's while most of them are comparing to their old pickup or suv, or are simply claiming it gets the best mpg for an AWD.

You're like a broken record...
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:56 AM   #4559
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So you bought a 5 speed for the mileage, yet continue to bash those who don't think the CVT gets appropriate mpg although you have no personal knowledge other than results of the EPA method tests done by Subaru (you really should take a class in reading graphs) while ignoring the CR comparison with other cars getting equivalent mpg on real roads. You continue to spew that a few people on this list like the mpg's while most of them are comparing to their old pickup or suv, or are simply claiming it gets the best mpg for an AWD.

You're like a broken record...
I'd like to see your example of most people comparing to their old SUV or truck. I've said I'm used to driving my 2500 crew cab lifted 4wd ram with a hemi ( and same truck before it with a cummins) so I'm happy with mpg no matter how I drive it since its an awd. I drive hard, mostly in m mode, and to a previous post, since my car is broke in it does run much better on m mode using paddles, you just need to know how to shift and when not just higher RPM'S. I drive it like I enjoy it and get high 20's. I drive normal I get low to mid 30's. I can drive using my head and get over CR, or avg CR. I've gotten close to 40 on one tank on a trip thru Mississippi heading to Birmingham. I can't get past the 2.5 legacy mpg, and 2.0 impreza mpg. Either the 2.5 does well or consumer reports testing isn't consistent and real world- what ever the hell real world actually means. My real world differs from others real world. So that's so subjective its hardly worth using as a base line.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #4560
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2.5i impreza is good mileage for its power, as I get 25mpg avg city and highway. All highway I got 29mpg. Its 4eat is what definitely killed highway mpg.

With the 2.0i, I am getting 26mpg avg city and highway, while I can , max out at low 40s on highway.

The power on 2.5i required less throttle use where the 2.0i needs more throttle to get to the same speed.

Both are automatic.

Honestly who ever is complaining about suv milage to impreza mileage must be driving like a total asshat thinking they are ken block due to the impreza label.

My friends who have suvs can barely hit 20, max. If you push a 2.5i or any motor for that matter, you're obviously going to get ****ty mileage.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:07 AM   #4561
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I've been wondering what the real world difference in mpg would actually be if the fb25 were available in the Impreza. I especially wonder in regards to the xv, which the 2.5 would certainly be a great option.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:17 AM   #4562
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
So you bought a 5 speed for the mileage, yet continue to bash those who don't think the CVT gets appropriate mpg although you have no personal knowledge other than results of the EPA method tests done by Subaru (you really should take a class in reading graphs) while ignoring the CR comparison with other cars getting equivalent mpg on real roads. You continue to spew that a few people on this list like the mpg's while most of them are comparing to their old pickup or suv, or are simply claiming it gets the best mpg for an AWD.

You're like a broken record...
No, not really. I never said I bought a 5 speed for the mpg's, if I had wanted mpg's as my first priority when buying my Impreza, I would have bought the CVT that yields higher mpg's.

Also, you keep saying people are comparing their impreza to old pickups or suv's. This is one of your strawman arguments. I am reading posts from CVT impreza drivers who tell us about their mpg's, calculated at the pump and displayed. They sometimes include photos of the console numbers. These posts are not comparing it to other vehicles. Get your head out of your behind and stop your self-deluded ranting.

As to the content of your argument, vis a vis CVT vs 5 Speed, I already pointed out that you have struck out

(CVT MPG "Problem" thread, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...477627&page=21)

"Stevenhnm is 0 for 3 (in baseball, a strikeout) when it comes to his theory that a CVT gets worse HWY mileage than a 5 speed, all other things being equal.

1) Fuelly data shows that the highest Combined MPG's belong exclusively to CVT's
2) The EPA testing shows that CVT's yield higher mpg's than 5 Speeds
3) on this forum, looking at owner reported mileage, CVT owners have posted the highest (absolute) HWY mpg's consistently -- at least those owners who drive their CVT on the highway, with the cruise on, under 70mph are posting mpg's that I know are unachievable in my car, because that is how I drive it on the highway (cruise, 65-70mph).

There is something there, there, when three distinct data sets all say the same thing. That is all I am pointing out with that Fuelly data. End of story."

I haven't seen any evidence to dispute these three facts, you certainly haven't been able to provide it.

Last edited by Zeeper; 07-24-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #4563
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Stevehm says ;-) CR is completely and totally accurate to real world driving ( what ever that really means). Assuming ( I know what that means) he is correct then how can they explain a 2.5 leg with cvt avg 3 mpg higher than EPA, and same as imp 2.0 cvt? If its a larger car, more weight and power, same tranny ( different tuning in sure) there has to be a reason they both are 35 mpg per CR. it's just an interesting phenomenon to me.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #4564
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
I've been wondering what the real world difference in mpg would actually be if the fb25 were available in the Impreza. I especially wonder in regards to the xv, which the 2.5 would certainly be a great option.
You can wonder all you want, subaru isn't going to change the engine in the redesigned impreza any time soon, increasing the cost, while reducing the EPA mpg's, because that would reduce sales, which for this car and the XV are doing extremely well. Remember this car is competing with cars rated 40mpg, that is the segment it is in.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:28 AM   #4565
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You can wonder all you want, subaru isn't going to change the engine in the redesigned impreza any time soon, increasing the cost, while reducing the EPA mpg's, because that would reduce sales, which for this car and the XV are doing extremely well. Remember this car is competing with cars rated 40mpg, that is the segment it is in.
How ever with more bull**** governemnt regulation, subaru may need to redesign the engine again..... along with other car manufacturers
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:53 AM   #4566
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Revs being equal, a harder working engine is usually more efficient.

The European FB16 is even more efficient than the FB20.

How much higher does the Impreza rev at a 60 MPH cruise than the Legacy?
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #4567
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
You can wonder all you want, subaru isn't going to change the engine in the redesigned impreza any time soon, increasing the cost, while reducing the EPA mpg's, because that would reduce sales, which for this car and the XV are doing extremely well. Remember this car is competing with cars rated 40mpg, that is the segment it is in.
I think having the fb25 as an available *option* may help with sales as many people find the 2.0 to be pretty bland. I personally dont feel my car is underpowered and I've always lauded the mpg's, always exceeding epa #'s.
Im saying that I'm curious for this reason. I think with the fb25 in my car I could probably achieve the #'s my car is currently rated at, which I exceed
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:33 AM   #4568
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How ever with more bull**** governemnt regulation, subaru may need to redesign the engine again..... along with other car manufacturers
It is already PZEV certified, that is the leading standard that other manufacturers are likely going to have to comply with.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #4569
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You might be right about the tuning, I would like to see it tried. I understanding what your point is about the legacy compared with the other cars. However the other cars are not using the Subaru cvt transmissions. Maybe I didn't explain my theory as I see it. I am wondering legacy compared to impreza, what the factor is that makes the cvt impreza more finicky than the cvt legacy with regards to mpg in real world driving. This is based, of course ;-) with the findings by CR. I am thinking the culprit is the 2.0. It might be able to be fixed by tuning, however I doubt it. My thinking is that the 2.0, albeit sufficient to power the impreza in an urban pedestrian kind of way, requires more load to motivate in other environments. That's not saying its not able to, it just has to work harder to do it than the 2.5. I'm not sure a harder working 2.0 is more efficient than an easier working 2.5.
I think this is accurate. Even if I use "M" mode in each car to lock the CVT ratios, the Legacy will stay in gear going up hills where the Impreza forces a downshift.

Now I can say that if I stuck to flat sections of highway, the Impreza could beat the Legacy by 3 or 4 MPG. Unfortunately I only measure full tanks of gas and the Legacy would always make up the difference since there really isn't a lot of flat ground between Maine, Maryland, and Ohio when I travel. Also the Legacy warms up faster than the Impreza in the winter.

Last edited by ocellaris; 07-24-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #4570
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I think this is accurate. Even if I use "M" mode in each car to lock the CVT ratios, the Legacy will stay in gear going up hills where the Impreza forces a downshift.

Now I can say that if I stuck to flat sections of highway, the Impreza could beat the Legacy by 3 or 4 MPG. Unfortunately I only measure full tanks of gas and the Legacy would always make up the difference since there really isn't a lot of flat ground between Maine, Maryland, and Ohio when I travel. Also the Legacy warms up faster than the Impreza in the winter.
Perfect- you are able to compare the two. I was thinking exactly what you stated. I know the impreza had been grouped into a category by someone, so that it competes with 35-40 mpg vehicles. I'm not sure if its by msrp, size, or what. I happen to think its slightly unfair to the impreza as most of those cars are not awd. I've heard the arguments about how that doesn't matter with regards to mpg, but it absolutely has an impact on mpg. It won't on how it has been categorized, but that's my point. It's not a "like" vehicle. I also tend to think a majority of Subaru buyers and owners are exactly that for reasons more than just mpg. It's kind of a speciality company and always has been. So if it skews outside other manufacturers with the impreza, and legacy, and everything else, then I think that should just be ok. After all, look at the XV. It's been compared to the land rover disco many times for off road prowess. I mean really? Who would have thought a sub 30k Subaru "lifted impreza" as I've heard said would even be mentioned in the same sentence. And then even more, the defender tests on YouTube? So I hate to see Subaru try to get blurred in with other manufacturers and diminish its brand. That takes focus away from what it's great at. Maybe the impreza is perfect as it is, maybe its better with EPA of 32 using the 2.5l, I think that could be debated all day. At the end of the day I look at it more in reference to cars like the focus awd 5 door. Maybe the WRX vs the focus st. I suppose the impreza is like it should be, and to look beyond that in performance you move up to the WRX and so on. I just think a dialogue needed to be had in the combo cvt 2.0 vs the cvt 2.5 with regards to mpg. I didn't feel like the sole factor in mpg fluctuations fell solely on the cvt as has been said
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #4571
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Wow you two girls argue in every thread. About the same thing. How about keeping it to one thread.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:46 PM   #4572
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Wow you two girls argue in every thread. About the same thing. How about keeping it to one thread.
Not sure who your directing your sarcasm toward, its irrelevant at this point. This is a mpg thread, and the other is a, oh mpg thread as well.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #4573
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Not sure who your directing your sarcasm toward, its irrelevant at this point. This is a mpg thread, and the other is a, oh mpg thread as well.
Penguin: All you seem to do is occasionally pipe in telling others to pipe down. Get a life, or buy NASIOC and kick me out.

Since neither of those are likely to happen, try the ignore feature, as I have for you (note, when someone quotes you, I unfortunately see what you have written).
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:06 PM   #4574
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Sorry Zeeper- I missed the mark on that one :-(
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:07 PM   #4575
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Why did you buy the car then? Didn't you test drive it? You're the only one to blame if you did not properly test and research the car before buying it. Don't get me wrong, i never said that the car was fun to drive but for me it does exactly what i was expecting which is great mpgs and awd capabilities.
Yes I did test drive it, and reviewed it, problem is on a test drive you don't really get the real world daily experience that you do when owning it.

Example- when I test drove it, it was not very cold out, did not know that as soon as I start the car when cold (PZEV) I would lose 2 to 3mpg's, and that the CVT would take several miles til rpm's would drop, did not know my dash would rattle like crazy (dealer tried to fix 3x so far).

Purchased b/c figured the CVT would help my daily driving needs vs. a 6spd and improve fuel economy. Well did not, so crappier mpg's and less fun drive = It's okay though, car is paid off, plan to trade it in prior to warranty exp, until then wil just deal, car is reliable and I gave up trying to get good MPG's, just going to drive it.

The CVT is actually even annoying in traffic, there is no response, like turbo lag w/out the power, (you can't learn this on test drive either). So Lame. Like I said, I gave Subaru a shot, car is not horrible, just does not make me happy. I like cars to make me smile when I drive them, want to drive them!!! This car does not do that. Live and learn. If yours makes you smile drive the wheels off it!
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