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Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #4576
79letour
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Waaay down the road if the car is in.decent shape and has a couple hundred thousand miles on it, maybe I'll look into a swap. For now the mpg's are pretty awesome even on the less efficient XV. I only have 1300 miles or so on it so mpgs are hard to guage. I havent even turned on the muti display on the dash. Its kind of nice. It definitely isnt far off what my Impreza was getting thats for sure.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:23 PM   #4577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post

As to the content of your argument, vis a vis CVT vs 5 Speed, I already pointed out that you have struck out

(CVT MPG "Problem" thread, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...477627&page=21)

"Stevenhnm is 0 for 3 (in baseball, a strikeout) when it comes to his theory that a CVT gets worse HWY mileage than a 5 speed, all other things being equal.

1) Fuelly data shows that the highest Combined MPG's belong exclusively to CVT's
2) The EPA testing shows that CVT's yield higher mpg's than 5 Speeds
3) on this forum, looking at owner reported mileage, CVT owners have posted the highest (absolute) HWY mpg's consistently -- at least those owners who drive their CVT on the highway, with the cruise on, under 70mph are posting mpg's that I know are unachievable in my car, because that is how I drive it on the highway (cruise, 65-70mph).

There is something there, there, when three distinct data sets all say the same thing. That is all I am pointing out with that Fuelly data. End of story."

I haven't seen any evidence to dispute these three facts, you certainly haven't been able to provide it.
I'd negated them multiple times previously. Just because you keep ignoring or rationalizing the answers and regurgitating your irrelevant dogma doesn't mean I have to keep answering you.

1. BigFatHorse's fuelly data showed the 5 speed averaged 27.8, the CVT 27.3. You had to find some way to discount that so you said CVT drivers drive more in the city (LOL). Where's your proof? I say 5 speed drivers tend more to being aficionados. At any rate the fuelly data shows the 5 speed gets better fuel economy than the CVT. There are more CVT's than 5 speeds in the data so of course there are more at the ends - both ends.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=35

2. The EPA data is what's in question here. You are trying to prove something by stating it is a fact, therefore it is. Sorry, go take logic 101.

3. You are taking a few anecdotes and calling it relevant data. This, although in looking at the link in #1, you make a snide remark about the relevance of that sample.

I'm not the one striking out here - you've done it several times.

And now I've quoted your little buddy flyboy getting better mpg in his 5 speed than I can with my CVT. I can't get anywhere close to 30 mpg at 75 mph anywhere near sea level.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:43 PM   #4578
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guess what....it's flat where I live......bottom of a prehistoric lake and all, you can see for miles.

we will see next week when i venture out west to the mountains what I get for MPG, i bet i don't get 30+ at 75mph
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:47 PM   #4579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
Perfect- you are able to compare the two. I was thinking exactly what you stated. I know the impreza had been grouped into a category by someone, so that it competes with 35-40 mpg vehicles. I'm not sure if its by msrp, size, or what. I happen to think its slightly unfair to the impreza as most of those cars are not awd. I've heard the arguments about how that doesn't matter with regards to mpg, but it absolutely has an impact on mpg.
What I did is find what the Impreza CVT got highway in Consumer Reports' actual highway test, then took all the other vehicles that got that highway mpg on the same CR highway test. There were 12 others. I did not cherry pick, I took all. Pulling out the Impreza as it was a definite outlier left the Legacy as an outlier depending on one's definition. Since the Legacy was tested on the same equipment as the outlier and it was the closest to said outlier, I removed it too. This is valid.

What was left were 11 cars that averaged 35 mpg on the CR highway test. Those vehicles had, as EPA highway test results, 29.5 +/- 1.5 mpg. All of them. Statistically, if there had been a half million cars that tested 35 mpg on the Consumer Reports test, the Impreza would have had, at 4.63 std deviations, over a 50/50 chance of being the furthest out from the group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
I just think a dialogue needed to be had in the combo cvt 2.0 vs the cvt 2.5 with regards to mpg. I didn't feel like the sole factor in mpg fluctuations fell solely on the cvt as has been said
Again, I think we might agree on that. Interestingly, the '14 2.5 liter Forester gets 14% better highway EPA mpg than the '14 2.0 liter Forester, both CVT's. I'm not sure why that is.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ws/index.shtml#vehicle

Another interesting point is that the '14 Impreza 2.0 liter test results are not out yet (as of today). Very interesting considering there are allegedly no changes...
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #4580
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Nah you do 33-34 mpg at 75-85 in the CVT. Denver to Salina with a very slight headwind 10-15 mph last big road trip I did we pushed hard, still got 33-34. Once you're off the plains though ya, lucky to get 30-32.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:41 PM   #4581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Again, I think we might agree on that. Interestingly, the '14 2.5 liter Forester gets 14% better highway EPA mpg than the '14 2.0 liter Forester, both CVT's. I'm not sure why that is.
um because one is a N/A FB25, the other is a 250hp turbocharged direct injection 2.0 liter...
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:24 AM   #4582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
I'd negated them multiple times previously. Just because you keep ignoring or rationalizing the answers and regurgitating your irrelevant dogma doesn't mean I have to keep answering you.

1. BigFatHorse's fuelly data showed the 5 speed averaged 27.8, the CVT 27.3. You had to find some way to discount that so you said CVT drivers drive more in the city (LOL). Where's your proof? I say 5 speed drivers tend more to being aficionados. At any rate the fuelly data shows the 5 speed gets better fuel economy than the CVT. There are more CVT's than 5 speeds in the data so of course there are more at the ends - both ends.
Since you again have shown that you do not understand what happens when numbers are averaged there really isn't much to discuss.

The fact that you either pretend or just simply do not understand Combined MPG's (averaging CITY and HWY mpg's) and HWY MPG's are not the same?

Priceless.

Really, if you are going to try to prove CVT HWY mpg's are lower than 5 Speed HWY mpg's, you need to stop comparing COMBINED MPG's to prove your case. It just makes you look ignorant about how math works.

Last edited by Zeeper; 07-25-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:27 AM   #4583
stevehnm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xafen View Post
Nah you do 33-34 mpg at 75-85 in the CVT. Denver to Salina with a very slight headwind 10-15 mph last big road trip I did we pushed hard, still got 33-34. Once you're off the plains though ya, lucky to get 30-32.
Interesting. Are you talking Salina or Salida? Either way mine wouldn't get that. Is yours a PZEV?

More fodder for either the low quality control argument (along with the oil consumption problem) or the PZEV mpg problem, I guess...

There are some people who say they get that and some who can't. It's pointing more and more to the previous paragraph though.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #4584
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Salina, KS. No PZEV. So far, knock on wood, I haven't had any of the oil problems or the like. I took delivery of my car Dec 2011. I forget what production run that puts mine into.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:10 AM   #4585
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I traded my 2002 WRX manual with only 88k miles in to get the more fuel efficient Impreza Sport Wagon 2013 CVT. After 5k miles and just finished a 2k mile trip to NYC, I was very disappointed that my mileage continues to only average closer to 20 mpg. Whether its hwy nor city the mileage is pretty bad. Maybe I guess I need to do my first oil change or something even though dealer told me 7500 miles. I got the cargo basket mid trip to NYC, the mileage actually went below 20 mpg, lol. That's understandable, but normal driving before this road trip and after, its pretty bad. I do notice the AC is making the engine rev up at idle like it cannot handle it like on a cheap car similar to the 2012 Honda Fit I had for a short period of time.

Anyway, my old 2002 227 HP WRX got slightly better mileage and I drive that like I stole it. Maybe a filter charger and a new exhaust might help the car breath better if its really that bottlenecked like a cheap civic or sentra. I think with this low mileage, I might as well get the STI.

Any thoughts?
1. Use Premium gas 93 vs the 87 octane
2. Change oil (I should've change it at 3k miles, and maybe use synthetic)
3. Use the moonroof, don't use the A/C
4. Is there Econ button?
5. Overflate the tires even more than the OEM 40 PSI, lol
6. The roof cross bars are not two wings, take them off?
7. Put car in neutral while driving down a hill
8. Check underhood verify I do not have a 2.5 vs 2.0?
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:20 AM   #4586
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Put a fairing on front cross bar, learn to drive it like its intended. It can get good mpg in auto mode when your not heavy in the pedal. I have been driving mine hard in m mode using air around town and light hwy and usually with people in it and worst I've had was 26. I will say after it hit 7xxx miles it really changed how it ran and mpg. Mainly loosened up and ran much more free and therefore took less pedal to get it going. I changed oil to royal purple at 3xxx miles and use 91 non ethanol oct fuel. That makes a difference in mine where I'm located. In sure some places it might not. This is my first Subaru, now in itching to get a wrx 5-door. Havnt tried intake yet but will. Exhaust I'm not sure what can be done due to PSEV, but I'd be interested in that as well.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:52 AM   #4587
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When air conditioning is in use, it's responsible for about 10% additional fuel consumption; if your 87 octane has 5-10% ethanol in it, you can expect another 15-20% drain on fuel consumption vs. straight gasoline.

That's more or less what I've found with my car. YMMV.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:24 AM   #4588
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below 20 mpg?? the only thing you have to do is change your driving habits. It should not be that low, especially highway. Saying that you drove your last car hard only further proves the point that its due to your driving.

Look up tips on hypermiling techniques and do that.

And yes use synthetic oil obviously. Why wouldn't you?
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:28 AM   #4589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherb View Post
2. Change oil (I should've change it at 3k miles, and maybe use synthetic)
Car delivered with synthetic and should be replaced with synthetic per specs.

How fast do you drive and are manually shifting?
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:41 AM   #4590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherb View Post
Any thoughts?
1. Use Premium gas 93 vs the 87 octane
2. Change oil (I should've change it at 3k miles, and maybe use synthetic)
3. Use the moonroof, don't use the A/C
4. Is there Econ button?
5. Overflate the tires even more than the OEM 40 PSI, lol
6. The roof cross bars are not two wings, take them off?
7. Put car in neutral while driving down a hill
8. Check underhood verify I do not have a 2.5 vs 2.0?
1. I use 87 octane exclusively. I try to fill up from the same station(s) around me but I drive a lot and end up filling up out of state or town but I do try to stick with brands... (For my next tank, I may fill up with 91 just to experiment.)

2. I changed my oil at around 3,000, 7,500 and most recently at 11,250.

3. My last trip I averaged 31mpg for the entire tank (hand calculated) while a majority of it was on the expressway, I was at a displayed >34 mpg driving about 70-75mph with AC on when it was >90 degrees with 2 people in the car and luggage. (The odometer is a bit slow in accumulating miles as verified by 2 different GPS units. This means that even hand calculated, the MPG is going to be slightly lower than actual.)

-My daily work commute is 22 miles round trip. Max speed is 45 mph, lots of back roads and stop and go. Elevation is from 852 feet to 101 feet.

4. No eco button.

5. I'm about 1 PSI over-inflated on my tires.

6. I have the THULE square 4050R bars with fairing. These definitely make me take a hit on MPG but I'll still be in the high 20's.

7. I never mess with shifting to neutral.

8.

-Click below on my banner and see my history of fuel economy since I got the car back in November.


Last edited by jay25RS; 07-26-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:41 AM   #4591
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As fast and hard as I have been pushing mine, I've not dropped near that low.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #4592
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Drove like a cool guy for a tank, 24.5 mpg. Woo.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:00 PM   #4593
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
below 20 mpg?? the only thing you have to do is change your driving habits. It should not be that low, especially highway. Saying that you drove your last car hard only further proves the point that its due to your driving.

Look up tips on hypermiling techniques and do that.

And yes use synthetic oil obviously. Why wouldn't you?
People get into weird driving habits and don't understand that no one else does them. Driving in a vehicle with my sister is terrifying because she uses the accelerator like an on/off switch and never just holds it steady. She refuses to use cruise control as well, because she thinks it will cause an accident. She has been doing this for over 15 years and gets extremely low MPG + has engine and transmission problems with every car she has owned.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:01 PM   #4594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherb View Post
7. Put car in neutral while driving down a hill
This uses more gas than leaving it in gear. If you don't want to CVT downshifting to hold your speed, just tap the gas or click up on the shift paddle.

Also it is a good way to break a transmission when you put it back into gear.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #4595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
1. I use 87 octane exclusively. I try to fill up from the same station(s) around me but I drive a lot and end up filling up out of state or town but I do try to stick with brands... (For my next tank, I may fill up with 91 just to experiment.)
It's going to take more than one tank to be able to confirm any difference through experimentation. Just sayin'.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:06 PM   #4596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lymphomaniac View Post

It's going to take more than one tank to be able to confirm any difference through experimentation. Just sayin'.
Oh, I'm aware but thanks for bringing it up. I almost don't carw if it goes up since the car is meeting my expectations and delivers a much lower $/mile than my STI.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:56 PM   #4597
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I think the oil change would help and I do drive it conservative letting off the pedal way early before a light. I do the occasional take off but most of the time it only does 3k-4k rpms which in CVT feels like one gear until u let off. I have not touch the paddle shifters since the first week I owned it. The dedicated hwy miles to NY was bad I was going 70-80 with just luggage in back and 1 passenger and a baby.

I guess maybe a 10k mile break in period? I read on here someone say the miles to fill up on the menu reads 500 miles and wished it was true. I think mine always read 250 miles only after fill up and that's with added fill up beyond initial tank fill stop.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #4598
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Yeah something wrong here, even during the break in period i was avg over 30 mpg. 80 would do that to you though.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #4599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherb View Post
I think the oil change would help and I do drive it conservative letting off the pedal way early before a light. I do the occasional take off but most of the time it only does 3k-4k rpms which in CVT feels like one gear until u let off. I have not touch the paddle shifters since the first week I owned it. The dedicated hwy miles to NY was bad I was going 70-80 with just luggage in back and 1 passenger and a baby.

I guess maybe a 10k mile break in period? I read on here someone say the miles to fill up on the menu reads 500 miles and wished it was true. I think mine always read 250 miles only after fill up and that's with added fill up beyond initial tank fill stop.
something seems terribly wrong...

if you go 60-65mph on a flat highway, what does the instantaneous MPG read? in my experience, you should be seeing 35-45mpg for such conditions (over the long haul over 40 but no highway is truly flat).
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:15 AM   #4600
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Sorry on mobile so can't do a realistic search.

Can anyone speak to the MPG inaccuracy? I'm not talking about getting below EPA, I'm speaking to taking the number of miles driven on the trip counter and dividing by number of gallons put into tank. That mpg measure is always 10-15% lower than what the computer says.

For example 30.6 on the computer is normally about 27.8 when I hand calc it. Is it due to the larger tired on my sport premium? Can I get a re-flash? Not sure if it's my odo or mpg-gauge that is inaccurate.

2012 Impreza Sport Premium w/ 20k miles.
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