Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday December 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2010, 08:20 PM   #1
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default Built motor not starting bad crank/cam signal with AEM EMS and kelford 272s?

Ok I just swapped over my built longblock into my 05 STi. The motor contains some off the shelf Kelford 272 in/exh cams. I am running an AEM EMS (Mod A Rev C). The motor isn't starting. I've researched on this and iwsti for people having similar issues.

While not having exactly the same issues they have problems with the crankshaft and camshaft position sensor signals with bigger cams and the AEM EMS.

Stat sync'd is a parameter that has to do with the crank and camshafts being synced from what I was told by Scott Siegel. This parameter is switched to off when the motor is off. It turns on when you crank the motor, granted the camshaft and crank sensor signals are good. In my case the stat sync'd parameter never switches to on.

The heads were built by Turbo Time in Cary, NC who is a reputable shop doing work on subies. They mated them to my built shortblock and made it a turn key assembly minus everything that sits on top of the motor (intake mani, coolant crossover, tgvs, etc.) So they had set the mechanical timing of everything on the motor. I gave them a call and they stand by their work saying everything is good to go.

I started reading the crank and camshaft pickup parameters while I cranked. The crankshaft pickup parameter stayed on while the camshaft parameter switched intermittently between on and off. So I'm guessing that there may be something wrong with the signal from the camshaft position sensors that the AEM EMS doesn't like.

Another thing, my injector duty cycles stay at 0 while cranking. I think this is due to the stat sync'd parameter being off and the AEM EMS knowing this doesn't send fuel into the cylinders. I am however reading 40 psi on the fuel pressure gauge.

Can anybody give me some pointers as to what I can try next to get the motor started?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by lester; 04-28-2010 at 07:45 AM.
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 01:43 PM   #2
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

Try selecting "crank sync skip"



does that help at all?
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 06:14 PM   #3
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Try selecting "crank sync skip"



does that help at all?
Hmm are there any dangers to doing this?
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 10:28 PM   #4
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

Well I tried using crank sync skip and sync ignore at 300 and 400 rpm and still no dice. Not even a marginal improvement. The engine just cranks and stat sync'd stays off and injector duty cycles stay at 0.

Something else may be wrong. I just can't figure it out right now. This is way above my head at the moment.
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 01:11 PM   #5
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

For reference, here is a list of my power mods:

Block:
-Ceramic and moly Polydyn Coated CP Forged Pistons
-Micropolished Crankshaft
-Stock STI Rods with ARP 2000 Rod Bolt upgrade
-ACL Race Series Bearings
-CP HD Series Wrist Pins
-CP HD rings, Filed to fit
-ARP head studs

Heads:
-ferrea +1mm valves in/exh
-cometic headgaskets
-ported cylinder heads
-TGV deletes ported to match heads
-Kelford 272 in/exh cams PN: R-199-C
-Supertech valve springs and retainers

-Nismo 740cc injectors
-Walbro 255lph fuel pump
-Agency Power fuel rails

-Full-race twin-scroll exhaust mani
-Full-race twin-scroll uppipe
-Full-race downpipe
-TiAL MV-R wastegates x 2
-Forced Performance HTA GT3582R w/1.00 AR divided entry exhaust housing
-TiAL Q BOV

-Perrin FMIC

-Innovative LC-1 wideband w/gauge hooked into AEM for feedback
-AEM 3.5 BAR MAP sensor
-AEM Intake air temperature sensor (no MAF)
-Defi BF 60mm boost, oil temp, oil pressure
-Defi Racer Series 52mm fuel pressure
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 02:02 PM   #6
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

The setup before was had everything mentioned above besides the headwork. They were bone stock. And I was running the AEM fine before the headwork. Another thing to note is that the AEM EMS was Mod A Rev A before. I sent it in to AEM for the latest updates and now I have Mod A Rev C
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 05:55 PM   #7
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

I just spoke with AEM directly and they had me check two parameters. T2PER which is for cam and crank tooth period. What I was looking for was the two parameters to move while I cranked. T2PER moved around while crank tooth period stayed maxed and didn't move.



They also had me look at engine RPM which subsequently stayed around 0 while cranking.

It had to be my luck that my battery charge is real low now so I'm not sure if the starter is moving fast enough to have crank tooth period and engine rpm register signals to the AEM EMS. However, a few nights ago I did try jump starting the motor with no luck; but this was before I knew to check for anything that was suggested on here or by AEM.

Anyhow, AEM suspects the crankshaft sensor system, meaning either the sensor is bad or the wiring or it isn't hooked up. It's hooked up last I checked


Last edited by lester; 04-29-2010 at 07:45 PM.
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 07:46 PM   #8
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

I checked the continuity of both wires from the EMS to the crankshaft position sensor. It's pin B10 and B9. They both check good.

I also metered across the sensor and I read 1.964k ohms. Anybody else's read the same?
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #9
JhnBrackett
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 42460
Join Date: Aug 2003
Default

Don't suppose you ever found a solution you could post?
JhnBrackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #10
lester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138937
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Southwest Asia ;)
Vehicle:
2005 STi
CGM

Default

Well then. It's been awhile now. The problem was with the kelfords, the cam position pickup sensor, and the crank position sensor and how the their timing collectively interacted with each other. The crank sensor if I can remember right gives "hall" effect type output meaning on or off. The cam position sensor is linear that goes up and down like a sine wave.

Then there is a parameter called stat sync'd. It's either on or off. When the key is in the ignition and you turn it to the start position, it looks at the relationship between the cam and crank sensors. If the AEM EMS likes what it sees from the cam and crank sensors, it turns stat sync'd on thus starting the engine. My problem stemmed from stat sync'd never switching to on. This parameter is supposed to protect the engine from damage in case things are not lined up properly in the heads versus crank.

In short the AEM EMS didn't like what it was seeing from the cam and crank sensors thinking the position of the parts were incorrect and therefore trying to protect the motor. This led to star sync'd never turning "on". I had sent the AEM EMS to AEM after some dialogue, and they recalibrated a few parameters like the crank tooth count so that it would run with the kelfords. I got a feeling those guys got some free research off of me, and shortly afterwards the came out with the AEM EMS (part no. 1812) mod C which supposedly has the fix for this now.
lester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 01:26 PM   #11
JhnBrackett
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 42460
Join Date: Aug 2003
Default

Great explanation. I use an EMS-4 on my 2.2L Ecotec generator that runs off Hydrogen, Alcohols (Methanol & Ethanol), Methane, Ethane and Propane. Had very similar issues with mine using the stock sprocket teeth.
JhnBrackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who's tuned AEM EMS w/ Kelford cams? (05 STi) bigmike25rs Other Engine Management 62 01-14-2014 09:25 PM
not starting with aem ems bloopsta26 Other Engine Management 2 01-14-2009 06:58 PM
04 STi with AEM EMS by Turbotrix STi in ur face Proven Power Bragging 34 03-11-2008 01:07 PM
Cold Start with AEM EMS 11secwagon Engine Management & Tuning 21 12-29-2006 06:23 PM
built motor wont start... jared nelson Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 11 12-20-2004 06:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.