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Old 08-26-2013, 03:32 AM   #51
hummelsubaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
377whp on 22psi out of a 60lb/min turbo is terrible. Unbelievably bad actually. I hit 350whp on 91 octane with a 55lb/min (Dom 3xtr) at 16psi. Turbo wasn't even trying. Nor should a 60lb/min one be. There's something holding the car back and it isn't the turbo (unless the turbo is ****ed). This turbo should hit close to 400whp with low boost (under 20psi) without trying, even on pump gas.
16 psi hits 350whp sounds really good bro. but my scooby is based on EJ207 with manley 2.2 kit. so well i think is 377@22psi is fair output for tiny little 2.1xxx litres lump.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:35 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by 555 View Post
What is unbelievable ? GTX3076 vs. DOM3 have the similar compressor and turbine wheel sizes.(76/60) You hit 350 at 16 psi and this car hits 419 at 24 psi with low ignition. Do you think you have TD04 installed on your car? What should be the power difference?

30 psi of boost / 6-7 deg more timing / 11.8-12 afr / high octane fuel should get this car to 500 whp and it is the maximum limit of this turbo.
Thanks for the backing up bro!

My mate got some decent E85 lately, i might tune my scooby again, lol but i need bigger injectors to feed up my bxxch, haha
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:36 PM   #53
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I think that's the biggest air filter i have ever seen put on a subaru
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:35 PM   #54
hummelsubaru
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I think that's the biggest air filter i have ever seen put on a subaru
lol, how are you doing buddy? i was in your build thread while you were leaving comment here, haha.

any comments on why i got slow spool up and low output, mate?
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 555 View Post
What is unbelievable ? GTX3076 vs. DOM3 have the similar compressor and turbine wheel sizes.(76/60) You hit 350 at 16 psi and this car hits 419 at 24 psi with low ignition. Do you think you have TD04 installed on your car? What should be the power difference?

30 psi of boost / 6-7 deg more timing / 11.8-12 afr / high octane fuel should get this car to 500 whp and it is the maximum limit of this turbo.
GTX3076r is significantly larger than a dom 3xtr (55lb/min vx 61lb/min). I hit 350whp on low boost with 91 octane. 22psi will 100% meth should be pushing at least 450whp. That turbo should push 500whp with 100% meth pretty easily.

Hell, the dom 3xtr is hitting 500whp with E85. An extra 6lb/min (60chp) should at least be able to hit that with 100% meth. I'm not dissing the car, I'm saying there is something wrong.

The 2.1L doesn't affect power either. It will affect spool, but not power. Especially if you rev it out, which I'm not sure why you aren't. I'm all for conservative, but if you were going to go for conservative you could run a smaller turbo and get better spool, transient response, and the same power.

Also, I used my dom 3xtr on a 2.0. Ran it out to 8k redline. Super smoth. Spool was slightly better than yours. I was hitting 400whp ish and the timing belt had skipped. You should be pushing some serious power with that turbo but your not even close to what most experienced people would expect. Something is up.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #56
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Something is up.
Yeah, it's called fuel quality. You do realize this guy is in China right? Even here in the US, there's a ton of variation in fuel quality between different states. From what I've been told by a number of tuners, they can make the same power on 89 octane gas from Oregon as 91 oct from Cali.

Even US fuel quality has been playing catchup to the fuel used in Europe and Japan for a while now.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:04 PM   #57
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Yeah, it's called fuel quality. You do realize this guy is in China right? Even here in the US, there's a ton of variation in fuel quality between different states. From what I've been told by a number of tuners, they can make the same power on 89 octane gas from Oregon as 91 oct from Cali.

Even US fuel quality has been playing catchup to the fuel used in Europe and Japan for a while now.
Thanks buddy. let me explain something for your guys.
1 year ago, all the petrol stations supply Ron 97 or 98 fuel (US 91-92 maybe?) in my city which are called best fuel in my country. I do test both fuels on dyno. There are pretty identical outputs comparing with JDM 2.0 STI and USDM 2.5 STI apart from I need to do slighly tune on ignition timing and afr.

For mild tune USDM 2.5 STI, I can easily make just over 300whp/300wtq power output with some supporting mods which is pretty much similar with US standard. But that was OLD days.

This year on, centre gov starts to reduce sulphur in the petrol (octane goes down) to solve environmental issue. well I think this is good move to deal with high pollution issue in my city but we all sacrifice our performance. So all the dealerships begin to recall their cars for reprogramme the ECU, well let say its Detune. We test BMW Z4 i35 on the dyno before and after. With old 97, it does 300whp but with new 95, it only does 260whp. That proves everything.

Now your all could understand what I mentioned earlier in this thread.

To rexblake: thanks for all useful infomation you left for me in the thread and i do learn a lot. you are experienced and knowledgebale player but please understand the situation in my area. I will improve my tuning skill and hopefully power curve would be better later on.

To 555: Thanks buddy for backing me up. seems like you know a lot about my country.

To spdracerut: Thanks for understanding.

Hummel
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:54 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummelsubaru View Post

This year on, centre gov starts to reduce sulphur in the petrol (octane goes down) to solve environmental issue. well I think this is good move to deal with high pollution issue in my city but we all sacrifice our performance. So all the dealerships begin to recall their cars for reprogramme the ECU, well let say its Detune. We test BMW Z4 i35 on the dyno before and after. With old 97, it does 300whp but with new 95, it only does 260whp. That proves everything.

Now your all could understand what I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Hummel
I'm tracking now. I didn't realize your fuel was that bad. That's terrible! So with meth your probably hitting right around 91 octane numbers here. Ouch. That sucks! Maybe time a big v8 engine swap?? (Kidding, kind of).
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:47 PM   #59
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Are you happy with your switch from 1.5xtr to this? Did that setup spool very poorly also? Numbers aside the curve has me scratching my head considering you run a stroker and AVCS.

I run a stock V8 long block on 93oct with TS 2.5xtr and see full boost a 1k rpms sooner and in 3rd gear vs your 4th gear log.


I understand (now) that your gas sucks but have you tried to run more timing?
Have you pressure tested the system?

Last edited by Paul; 08-29-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:31 PM   #60
hummelsubaru
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Are you happy with your switch from 1.5xtr to this? Did that setup spool very poorly also? Numbers aside the curve has me scratching my head considering you run a stroker and AVCS.

I run a stock V8 long block on 93oct with TS 2.5xtr and see full boost a 1k rpms sooner and in 3rd gear vs your 4th gear log.


I understand (now) that your gas sucks but have you tried to run more timing?
Have you pressure tested the system?
Thanks for the comment, mate. actually i did leaking check 2 weeks ago and we aint find any problems and whole system is well sealed.

and also i try to add my ignition timing but from the noise of knock earphone, i can tell its knock everywhere. so, um, i have no choice to reduce to the range of 14-17 degrees.

well i think why i get my full boost that late is all down to engine displacement, long upper pipe, 4 inch inlet housing and .82 hotside. i will keep this setup for a while, then i might go for a new twin scroll setup.

im happy about my new build comparing to my old 1.5xtr coz its obviously i have more power and torque this time. considering 5200 rpm full boost with 7800 rpm redline, let say this powerband is pretty enough for me.

p.s. you are running TS 2.5xtr, i cant find this turbo. any spec of that one there?

Hummel

Last edited by hummelsubaru; 09-07-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:32 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
I'm tracking now. I didn't realize your fuel was that bad. That's terrible! So with meth your probably hitting right around 91 octane numbers here. Ouch. That sucks! Maybe time a big v8 engine swap?? (Kidding, kind of).
lol, tempting but no thanks mate.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:28 AM   #62
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I really think it's back down to the piston design, MPS had a big problem with early knock and couldn't add timing to get the spool up, they designed a piston that helped with it, and used a more recessed spark plug (pardon my poor technical term)

Morocco88 - 04' WRX into a 97' lot with 2.1 stroker and DOM 2.5

If you haven't read it already, give it a quick skim through and it might shed some light on some issues your getting?

Hope that helps
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:10 AM   #63
hummelsubaru
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Originally Posted by J3SST3R View Post
I really think it's back down to the piston design, MPS had a big problem with early knock and couldn't add timing to get the spool up, they designed a piston that helped with it, and used a more recessed spark plug (pardon my poor technical term)

Morocco88 - 04' WRX into a 97' lot with 2.1 stroker and DOM 2.5

If you haven't read it already, give it a quick skim through and it might shed some light on some issues your getting?

Hope that helps
Thanks matey, im on it now in the thread of http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1792564

Hummel
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:31 AM   #64
Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummelsubaru View Post

p.s. you are running TS 2.5xtr, i cant find this turbo. any spec of that one there?

Hummel
Same spec as the normal 2.5xtr but with a twin scroll housing. I see full boost around 4500 and makes power until 8k
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:52 PM   #65
hummelsubaru
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Same spec as the normal 2.5xtr but with a twin scroll housing. I see full boost around 4500 and makes power until 8k
Do'oh, sorry about this such ignorant question, mate. let say its Blouch Dom 2.5xtr twinscroll? how big is turbo's hotside? 8cm2? or 10cm2?

4500rpm seems pretty quick spool up

Cheers
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:59 AM   #66
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yes blouch dom 2.5xtr with a 10cm TS hotside.

Im seeing 20psi in 3rd right around 4500
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:36 AM   #67
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Here is a little upgrad. Chart from real road log this afternoon



This is log file, 4th gear, sunny day, warm, 24.3psi@4898 rpm, tappered down to 23.6psi. the reason why i just revved to 6700 rpm is traffic in front.

http://zh.scribd.com/doc/166280991/Tutu24psi-4th-Road

But there is another problem occured during the road log, afr is more leaner than last time on dyno. it was 10.7-11 afr but today is 11.4-12. i check meth injection system but seems its alright and does work. not sure about nozzle so i will go check it later and make sure nozzle is okay.

anyone here suffers similar problems? comments will be appreciated.

Thanks

Hummel
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:48 AM   #68
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Beautiful car and awesome setup
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummelsubaru View Post
Here is a little upgrad. Chart from real road log this afternoon



This is log file, 4th gear, sunny day, warm, 24.3psi@4898 rpm, tappered down to 23.6psi. the reason why i just revved to 6700 rpm is traffic in front.

http://zh.scribd.com/doc/166280991/Tutu24psi-4th-Road

But there is another problem occured during the road log, afr is more leaner than last time on dyno. it was 10.7-11 afr but today is 11.4-12. i check meth injection system but seems its alright and does work. not sure about nozzle so i will go check it later and make sure nozzle is okay.

anyone here suffers similar problems? comments will be appreciated.

Thanks

Hummel
Maybe it has gotten alot colder than when you had it tuned. The air is denser the colder it gets, maybe this caused it to become a little leaner from being to take in more air per combustion event.

Has it gotten colder since your tune?
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #70
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Just to clear up some misinformation in this thread, but the gtx3076r is rated at 65lb/min turbo, not 60 or 61 being referenced.

I went from a 1.5xtr to gtx3076r (on 2.5L), and it was a pretty substantial difference in power and streetability. I didn't lose much low end spool if you ask me, but TONS of extra power.

If you're not hitting 20psi by 4000rpm then something sounds weird...I understand you're on a 2.2L and .82ar hotside (why?) though...

Graphs below compared my setups on E85. 1.5xtr around 26psi and gtx was around 28-29psi. I know you can't compare apples to oranges here (2.2 vs 2.5L), but...I would expect your setup to hit more than 8psi by 4000rpm.

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Old 09-08-2013, 09:03 PM   #71
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Beautiful car and awesome setup
Thanks man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Maybe it has gotten alot colder than when you had it tuned. The air is denser the colder it gets, maybe this caused it to become a little leaner from being to take in more air per combustion event.
Has it gotten colder since your tune?
Actually, the intake temp remains same, and whole atmosphere in my city is getting a little bit colder. but i dont think the difference causes that much. i will go and check it this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
Just to clear up some misinformation in this thread, but the gtx3076r is rated at 65lb/min turbo, not 60 or 61 being referenced.
learnt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
I went from a 1.5xtr to gtx3076r (on 2.5L), and it was a pretty substantial difference in power and streetability. I didn't lose much low end spool if you ask me, but TONS of extra power.
I doubt that "I didn't lose much low end spool " comment, mate. may i ask you what exhaust manifold setup you got? twin scroll? and how big is your hotside? .63?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
If you're not hitting 20psi by 4000rpm then something sounds weird...I understand you're on a 2.2L and .82ar hotside (why?) though...
i have no idea, might be .63 would help with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet3r View Post
Graphs below compared my setups on E85. 1.5xtr around 26psi and gtx was around 28-29psi. I know you can't compare apples to oranges here (2.2 vs 2.5L), but...I would expect your setup to hit more than 8psi by 4000rpm.
im jealus you now, mate. great curve and huge torque plant!
is that airboy simulated dyno there?

Thanks anywayz

Hummel
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:07 PM   #72
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Yeah I was talking summer to winter type of a change- 80f down to 40f or something.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:42 PM   #73
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Yeah I was talking summer to winter type of a change- 80f down to 40f or something.
oh, its early autumn here mate. not much temp drops comparing to summer.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:51 PM   #74
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We have already had a few 40 degree nights in MN so I figured I would ask. We have 97f for a high tomorrow and 45f for a low on Thursday. That's Minnesota.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:07 AM   #75
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We have already had a few 40 degree nights in MN so I figured I would ask. We have 97f for a high tomorrow and 45f for a low on Thursday. That's Minnesota.
thats inner land suppose to be
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