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Old 09-09-2013, 01:47 AM   #1
grandotitat
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Member#: 355259
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Bogot, Colombia
Vehicle:
2003 Forester XT

Default Results: ebay TMIC Vs. the City

So there are several threads discussing about the ebay top mount intercooler. I think that the most popular are these:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=ebay+tmic

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=ebay+tmic

My intention with this thread is to share my experience with the top mount intercooler in my 03 Forester 2.0 XT (EJ205). Other mods are along with the ebay TMIC, such as K&N panel filter, UEL headers & up-pipe (ebay), W/M injection, Perrin inlet hose, but the most important is an upgraded turbo (FP HTA68).

So, lets get this started. The main problem I noticed with the large ebay intercooler was that the duct below the scoop was not big enough to cover the whole surface of the intercooler. There were a few aftermarket options but the piece didn't seem that complicated to try a homemade version so I went for it:



I know it looks ugly in the picture but after it was painted and mounted it doesn't.



The area which was supposed to work as a convection hole or chimney to get rid of the turbo heat is gone. Anyway the intercooler is almost over the turbo so this is no longer needed.



This is how it looks installed:



The sealing is not perfect. There are still some gaps but i'll work on this later:



You might have noticed that I took the chance to install a homemade intercooler sprayer. I used small misting nozzles that you can get from Amazon:



The mist they throw is very fine so i'm thinking of getting the original STi sprayer nozzle to get a liitle bit more of water.



Another thing I did here was to get a larger scoop:



And the last mod to help on the intercooler cooling was the Hondata gasket:



So, to see how I was doing with my intercooler, I bought an intercooler gauge with dual sensors to read in and out temperature:



I'm only allowed to include 10 images per post, so i'll continue in the next post.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:50 AM   #2
grandotitat
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Join Date: May 2013
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Location: Bogot, Colombia
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2003 Forester XT

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Deciding the sensor position for the "In" reading was easy. Just in the middle of the Y-pipe. This is where the turbo starts to blow into the intercooler. The picture was taken from underneath the car:



The "Out" sensor was more difficult to locate. The most obvious place was just on the outlet opening but the W/M injector had already taken this place. The next place was just to the side of the outlet but the sensor interfered with the throttle so it had to be located a little bit far of the outlet:



Ok. So now the information. This temperature readings were taken without using the water sprayer. Ambient temperature was 57 F and sky was partially sunny. No boost was seen during this tests. The idea of this is to see how "prepared" would the intercooler be to get into boost after several city driving situations. I don't know exactly when the ecu will start to pull timing considering the feedback form the intake temp sensor, but from my experience, you start to feel timing pull after the reading from my OUT sensor will go over 90 F.

The gauge was set to read C, so I will write the conversion in F. The upper reading is temperature before the intercooler and the lower one is after the intercooler (or at least almost after the charge has been cooled).

1. 20 minutes of Heavy and standstill traffic after a cold start. This a situation you might find driving to work.



In - 100F
Out - 82F
Temp Drop: 18%

2. Mixed traffic after a 10 minute standstill traffic. This is a situation you might find driving to work. The intercooler here is just below the threshold where it will become heatsoaked, and lets understand heatsoak as the point where it would be very difficult to get it cool again.



In - 109F
Out - 91F
Temp Drop: 16.5%

3. After the traffic, the car is parked. This temp is taken after a startup 40 mins later. This can happen when you have driven to work or the mall and then you leave. Here the intercooler is definitely heatsoaked and not prepared to go under boost without expecting timing pull.



In - 104F
Out - 117F
Temp Drop: 12.5%

4. Suburb traffic. Stop and go during 15 minutes. Lets say you can find this in a city like New York after leaving a mall in Manhattan. I noticed here that the temperature lowered in a short time, but it never goes down to a point where definitely you won't feel timing pull



In - 115F
Out - 90F
Temp Drop: 21.7%

5. Downtown heavy traffic for 10 minutes. This is were you're trying to leave to your home but you find yourself in rush hour. The result here is heatsoak again:



In - 136F
Out - 108F
Temp Drop: 20.5%

6. A few blocks with slight boost. Now here, you managed to get out of the heavy traffic and you find some streets with light traffic and you can accelerate a few times. No more than 6 or 8 psi. The result is that the airflow is able to keep the intercooler dropping the temperature almost at the same level as in traffic but with a little boost heat inside. Anyway we are still heatsoaked here.



In - 140F
Out - 104F
Temp Drop: 20.5%

7. After this the car is parked for another 40 mins. This can happen if you go to pay a visit to some friend who lives near the downtown mentioned before. Heatsoak is more critical here. However this is expected and in the first parking test, there was no boost before but now there was.



In - 117F
Out - 129F
Temp Drop: 10.2%

8. 20 Minutes of highway after a cold start (No boost). You hanged out at your friend's house for more than 5 hours, so when you start again the car is cold and your way home is a highway.



In - 100F
Out - 81F
Temp Drop: 19%

Last edited by grandotitat; 09-09-2013 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:51 AM   #3
grandotitat
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Member#: 355259
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Bogot, Colombia
Vehicle:
2003 Forester XT

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The following tests are during the night at 50F

9. Highway cruising during 25 minutes. Light traffic. The speed is constant. Here we have the ideal conditions on the intercooler to go for boost.



In - 88F
Out - 70F
Temp Drop: 20,4%

10. Half a minute of full boost. Not exactly 30 seconds, but here you're tempted to see what is the top speed of your car so you go into full boost for several seconds, as the temperature conditions are given from the last temperature readings. I consider the results surprising. The heat that the turbo is able to put in there are very important. However this is the point where the intercooler shows the better efficiency and it is when the airflow is maximum and very cold. I was going here over 120 miles an hour. But again, this is not any new finding as this is how an intercooler is supposed to work. However it has been nice to me to see this with numbers.



In - 246F
Out - 115F
Temp Drop: 53,2%

So, lets recap all of this. As I use my Forester as a daily driver, I would feel secure to sum all the temp drop percentages and obtain an average to evaluate the overall cooling efficiency (excluding the last reading which is way out of the median because of the situation). The result is 17.7% of efficiency.

However, I think the same test are required using boost during the traffic situations, and i'm sure this percentage will be significantly lowered, but anyway is lot like you should be using boost where it isn't useful at all.

And what about the water sprayer??? Well, I did the same driving using the water sprayer and the temperature drops were almost imperceptible. I think I will have to change the nozzles because this ones require al least 30 second of spry to get the intercooler wet. Otherwise the water vapor expelled by this nozzles is just blown by the wind.

I think this intercooler works in a range from ok to poor. As the construction of the walls of so thick, this causes that whenever the intercooler gets heatsoaked, it requires a lot of constant airflow to get it cool again, so sometimes I consider getting an STi intercooler instead which is thinner.

I hope someone will find this useful. Any question, just ask.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:45 AM   #4
Uncle Scotty
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put a turbo blanket on the turbo and coat/wrap any and all exhust parts from the heads to the end of the dp and be

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Old 09-09-2013, 07:05 AM   #5
oguitar
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Can you give me a link to your intercooler gauge? I really like it.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #6
grandotitat
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2003 Forester XT

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
put a turbo blanket on the turbo and coat/wrap any and all exhust parts from the heads to the end of the dp and be

Actually i have the stock turbo heat shield (which required some modifications to fit over the TD05) and i'm surprised how effective this it. I did use the car a few months without this shield and this side of the intercooler was always heatsoaked. I considered the blanket but i liked the oem look of the heat shield so i kept it. As for the rest, i only have a blanket for the uppipe. I don't like to wrap exhausts because in the past i have craked lots of them (and if they are ebay, then worse).

Quote:
Originally Posted by oguitar View Post
Can you give me a link to your intercooler gauge? I really like it.
Sure! There you go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/52mm-Dual-Ai...659c0f&vxp=mtr
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:48 PM   #7
phantomfozzy
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Obsidian Black Pearl

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fwiw, smaller droplets in greater number should have a higher surface area and are more likely to exchange heat with the intercooler. That of course won't matter if the droplets are never deposited on the core, or if the quantity of droplets is insufficient to absorb enough heat to make a difference, or if the core of the intercooler is so thick that the water never makes contact with a portion of it that the delta in temperatures makes any difference.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:12 PM   #8
trev2eagles
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I have similar turbo out temps, 38c driving off boost, 120-125c WOT @1.6bar this on a 450hp turbo. I consider the WOT turbo temps to be very good, I've known them to be a great deal higher.
I have an AVO TMIC with perrin/aquamist water/meth injection, the nozzle is placed at the mouth of the intercooler outlet. Boost can't be run unless the system is on. The thermocouple probe is in the throttlebody.
With ambient temps of 10c (50f) I would expect air charge temps of approx 15c (59f) at WOT.
I also have a 3 jet spray boom (Aquamist 0.8mm spray nozzles) which spray up into the incoming air flow either side of the splitter in the bonnet scoop, so the whole intercooler is soaked, this reduces air charge temps another 2-3c, so typically at WOT, ambient 10c (57F), Turbo out, 125c (257f) Air charge 13c (55f). I feel the small reductions when the spray is on are significant as the closer the intercooler temps get to ambient the more difficult it is to make gains there.
I haven't any figures for about town driving but soaking the intercooler has got to improve the heat exchange substantially I would have thought.
Trev

Last edited by trev2eagles; 09-10-2013 at 10:40 AM. Reason: added information ref-spray nozzles
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:43 AM   #9
Uncle Scotty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandotitat View Post
Actually i have the stock turbo heat shield

which is garbage.....and NOT any sort of real help with heat soak

LISTEN TO ME

get the bloody tuebo blanket and coat and/or wrap every part of the exhaust you can get coated/wrapped

stock heatshields are a joke

yes...they are
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