Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2013, 04:11 PM   #1
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default Turbo/Upgrade Help!

What is the best turbo for a faster spool that is direct bolt on? I am just looking for a faster acceleration. Not a huge increase in HP just a little bit(more low end). I am running a 02 wrx and from what i know stock internals and car has roughly 150k on it.

Currently on:

-Custom up pipe
-spt short ram
-3in cat back
-gimmik turbo inlet
-short throw shifter(know doesnt matter much for this)
-brand new clutch put on 4 days ago
-group n motor mounts just put on yesterday(again probably doesnt matter)

Looking into getting:

-good TMIC (cause I drive through deep snow)
-header
-Catted DP (trying to stay legal)
-fuel injectors (not sure which)

Now with what I currently have on the car before getting the rest of the upgrades im looking into is it safe to upgrade to a different turbo that is direct bolt on? If so which is my best bet for upping my acceleration? so it needs fast spool in lower rpms. Thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 04:31 PM   #2
OldManRed04
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 356635
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Vehicle:
2005 STI
WR Blue

Default

Faster spool than stock? Geeze. People are mighty poky these days. Sounds like you need to shell out some money and get something with a ball bearings. I thought the stock until spooled quite quickly.

The stock downpipe has two catalytic converters in it. Removing either of the two is a federal offense. What downpipe were you under the impression that you could buy that's still legal?
OldManRed04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 04:45 PM   #3
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

hmm well I was looking into one of the vf models or another. So I guess it just needs to be equally fast spool and give some little power gains.

I am not entirely sure on what DP to get. I did not know that getting any other DP than stock is illegal. hmm good to know. I guess I really don't have to worry about the legal part of the DP then all that much but would still like to keep it catted. Or is keeping it catted completely useless then?
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 05:00 PM   #4
OldManRed04
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 356635
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Vehicle:
2005 STI
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowKing View Post
hmm well I was looking into one of the vf models or another. So I guess it just needs to be equally fast spool and give some little power gains. I am not entirely sure on what DP to get. I did not know that getting any other DP than stock is illegal. hmm good to know. I guess I really don't have to worry about the legal part of the DP then all that much but would still like to keep it catted. Or is keeping it catted completely useless then?
Guess that depends on the state. Here in Cali, doesn't matter. Any downpipe is illegal, carted or not.

Remember. Horsepower gains in turbos come from more airflow. More airflow comes from larger wheels . Larger wheels carry more weight which translates to slower spool. I think people get entirely too concerned with spool times. Go get a vf34. Seems like a generally good spool and good gains. Simple bolt on installation and looks stock to the untrained eye. Easy to pass visual on smog, even though it's technically not legal.
OldManRed04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 05:25 PM   #5
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Ok with getting the VF34 would I need to get anything else right away to be able to handle that? Or can I just bolt that up with what I have now and be good? Sorry newer to these kinds of mods
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #6
acqui
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 153235
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2005 Saab 9-2x Aero
Black

Default

I was in the same situation and was debating between stage 2 and really big power and decided to go with something in the middle, which was a vf34. I think it's a very good balance, especially for a daily driven car. I would highly recommend that particular turbo with a protune.
acqui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 05:59 PM   #7
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Thanks for the input Acqui! So going the VF34 route all i would need next is a tune, correct? I shouldnt need to change anything else?
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 07:46 PM   #8
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

fuel pump and injectors. if your going to get the injectors get at least 650 as the 565 I dont think are enough, especially if you wanna do like 18-20 psi, or go with 850 and do e85
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 08:15 PM   #9
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

I wasn't planning on pushing too much PSI out of the VF34 would my stock injectors do as long as I don't push a lot of PSI through it?
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
OldManRed04
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 356635
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Vehicle:
2005 STI
WR Blue

Default

Why upgrade something an then not use it? That's lame. Your going to buy a turbo to make more power, but don't want to use it ton it's potential because your too lazy to upgrade the injectors? Listen man, this is simple. More air requires more fuel. Sounds like you need to stick with the stock unit.
OldManRed04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 09:14 PM   #11
jerbull88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248089
Join Date: May 2010
Location: albany, ga
Vehicle:
2011 wrx premium
metallic grey

Default

If you don't want to do at least 565's then just keep the td04. A vf on your stock injectors will give a really crappy power band.
jerbull88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 09:27 PM   #12
Unabomber
Big Ron
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

You ARE going to explode your motor in short order unless you do the following stat:

1. Read:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=795608
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1218460
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2556265
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2556265
2. Know that there is no such thing as more horsepower AND quicker spool.
3. Talk to locals and find a tuner that is local to you to open up a line of dialogue. Tell him your WHP and budget and come to an agreement on which turbo will suit your needs. If you don't have one local, send me a PM and I can put you in touch with an internet tuner that is worth a damn.

As of right now you are listening to people who are giving out advice, perhaps in good faith, that have no idea what they are saying as one cannot recommend SQUAT without knowing your budget and WHP goals. I could recommend a VF34 or I could also recommend a Garrett GT60 and both would be terrific recommendations without knowing the goals you have in mind. Get this stuff sorted out or you WILL be buying a new motor.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #13
jhayesvw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326502
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Tucson AZ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

I would definitely go vf34. When I read your original post the 34 is the first turbo I thought of.
I would actually like to get one but I currently have a Blouch 16gxt and can't justify the expense of a turbo purchase to do a lateral change. Its not really an upgrade or downgrade to my turbo.

It is one of the fastest spooling turbos that will hold HP up high too.
But you definitely should do injectors and a tune with it.
jhayesvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 10:45 PM   #14
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Alright so 650 inectors are what people are recommending. Does that seem about right? And what about a fuel rail?
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 10:59 PM   #15
acqui
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 153235
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2005 Saab 9-2x Aero
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowKing View Post
Thanks for the input Acqui! So going the VF34 route all i would need next is a tune, correct? I shouldnt need to change anything else?
I did all of the recommended supporting mods, sti tmic, pink injectors, catted dp, grimspeed ebc, gutted up pipe. My car was dynoed on a mustang dyno at 270 whp, 241tq @ 17.5 psi. I could have gone with higher boost but the car drives really well and has been running reliably with proper maintenance. I am more into balance between chassis and power than just power so if that's your route, I would recommend that turbo.
acqui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 11:05 PM   #16
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Thanks unabomber that was a good read. I sent an email to the tuner I am going to use. He is the best in CO from all I have seen. Thanks again
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 11:07 PM   #17
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acqui View Post
I did all of the recommended supporting mods, sti tmic, pink injectors, catted dp, grimspeed ebc, gutted up pipe. My car was dynoed on a mustang dyno at 270 whp, 241tq @ 17.5 psi. I could have gone with higher boost but the car drives really well and has been running reliably with proper maintenance. I am more into balance between chassis and power than just power so if that's your route, I would recommend that turbo.
Yeah that is what im going for. Need reliability. So the pinks worked good I see. I am thinking probably 600s or 650s though. Gonna see what the local subaru tuner guru says
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 02:30 AM   #18
rexblake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 178426
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: FoCo
Vehicle:
2010 Audi S4
Black

Default

Get a dp. You want faster spool and little more hp, a dp will do both.

A vf34 is not the best option. Any vf turbo has been beaten by aftermarket in spool and power. Check the Blouch 16gxtr. However, nothing will spool as fast as your td04. Of course, an aftermarket turbo will actually hold boost above 5k rpm.

What tuner are you looking at in CO?
rexblake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #19
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
Get a dp. You want faster spool and little more hp, a dp will do both.

A vf34 is not the best option. Any vf turbo has been beaten by aftermarket in spool and power. Check the Blouch 16gxtr. However, nothing will spool as fast as your td04. Of course, an aftermarket turbo will actually hold boost above 5k rpm.

What tuner are you looking at in CO?
Hmm. I'll look into that one.

I am looking to get tuned by Harvey. He has been rated the best for some time now. Why? You know of another tuner?
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #20
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

My tuner Harvey @ The Boost Creep Ltd. was very informative to me yesterday. And after telling him what I was looking for and my budget he suggests for me to get the VF34 because they are easier to find and won't break your bank for a ball bearing turbo and he said he sees them out perform the VF39. He suggests me to get the Walbro 255lph(obvious choice anyways) and then if I am going to stay using normal gasoline go with 750cc injectors which should leave me even a little more room for improvement for usual 91-93 octane. But if I want to ever run E85 he recommends nothing but 1000cc injectors. So my main thing now is deciding whether to go with the 1000cc which will allow me to go for E85 if I would like or stick with 750cc. What do you guys think?

Also how does $495 for a single Gas tune with 3 maps given sound for a tune price? Thanks for your input guys and Definitely a thanks to Unabomber for the links to those threads honestly was the best reads I have seen for upgrading turbos! Be sure to check those out if you haven't already
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #21
RexFTW
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 107179
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Bensenville, IL
Vehicle:
2012 S4 Black
03 WRX S400 Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowKing View Post
My tuner Harvey @ The Boost Creep Ltd. was very informative to me yesterday. And after telling him what I was looking for and my budget he suggests for me to get the VF34 because they are easier to find and won't break your bank for a ball bearing turbo and he said he sees them out perform the VF39. He suggests me to get the Walbro 255lph(obvious choice anyways) and then if I am going to stay using normal gasoline go with 750cc injectors which should leave me even a little more room for improvement for usual 91-93 octane. But if I want to ever run E85 he recommends nothing but 1000cc injectors. So my main thing now is deciding whether to go with the 1000cc which will allow me to go for E85 if I would like or stick with 750cc. What do you guys think?

Also how does $495 for a single Gas tune with 3 maps given sound for a tune price? Thanks for your input guys and Definitely a thanks to Unabomber for the links to those threads honestly was the best reads I have seen for upgrading turbos! Be sure to check those out if you haven't already
Honestly, just get ID1000s and never look back. They won't cost you THAT much more, they are very high quality, give you much more room to grow among other benefits.

$500 is pretty much on par for a dyno tune in a lot of areas. Sounds solid to me.

Edit: Yes x 10 on VF34, probably my favorite VF turbo.
RexFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #22
dakyn
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299512
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Aspen White

Default

Harvey is one of the best subaru tuners in colorado. He tunes most of the WRXs here, including mine. He definitely knows what hes doing. The only other tuner I'd recommend is MAC autosports in Denver.

If you're going with the vf34 then you need the supporting mods. I'd go with an sti TMIC and injectors at the least.

Also, I got the cobb TBE and did an emissions test a week after installing it. They looked at the downpipe and everything and I passed. I think as long as it has a cat in colorado you should be good.

As for the injectors, I'd go ahead and get the 1000cc. Might as well in case you ever want to do more mods. I know a few people here with the e85 tune from harvey, but none of them use the car as their daily drivers. If I were you and I was using the car as a daily driver, I wouldnt do it. I've heard e85 doesnt do too well with cold weather, so living in colorado with e85 in a daily driver seems like a burden to me.

however, if this isn't your daily driver than e85 would be the way to go.

around $500 is normal for a good tune on a dyno.

So in short, if you're going with the vf34 I recommend getting a better TMIC, 1000cc injectors, and the tune from harvey. If the car is your daily driver dont go with e85.
dakyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 05:10 PM   #23
SnowKing
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282260
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
Honestly, just get ID1000s and never look back. They won't cost you THAT much more, they are very high quality, give you much more room to grow among other benefits.

$500 is pretty much on par for a dyno tune in a lot of areas. Sounds solid to me.

Edit: Yes x 10 on VF34, probably my favorite VF turbo.
hmm alright I will look into those and ask my tuner about them. I was looking at DW750 or DW1000 from what they recommended. He works with that brand quite often and they keep them in stock at their shop. Thanks for the input. Yeah the VF34 was highly recommended by their whole shop!
SnowKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #24
02rex11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 282478
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: CO
Vehicle:
02 PSM WRX VF34
MAC Tuned 307hp 301tq

Default

I failed miserably with my Helix catted downpipe. I' am surprised they passed you then again I did mine in centennial not in foco where I live now. I might need to go where you went dakyn. SnowKing, I will be installing a VF34 with supporting mods this weekend in Denver/Englewood area. If you would like to take a ride after I' am done shoot me a pm. Love the Colorado Subie community. There is a Cobb map for the VF34 which is what I will be using until I have enough money to go to MAC in Denver.. You are familiar with the cobb accessport right?
02rex11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 05:54 PM   #25
dakyn
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299512
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Aspen White

Default

Eh, if you're running the cobb mods then sure the accessport will do fine, but if youre running other mods, especially a different turbo, you need to get a tune more customized for the car and the mods on it, not an OTS tune. For the same price of an AP you can get a really good tune on a dyno by a professional who customized it for your exact mods
dakyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.