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Old 09-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #1
Chicago AJ
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Default Injectors Maxed out at 91 Octane Stage 1??? 2013 WRX+SF

Exactly what the title says. 82 degrees today. Log taken about 15 miles after driving on the reflashed map and after checking A/F trims. Looks clean to me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...KdDZCNUE#gid=0
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Last edited by Chicago AJ; 10-15-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago AJ View Post
Exactly what the title says. 82 degrees today. Log taken about 15 miles after driving on the reflashed map and after checking A/F trims. Looks clean to me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...KdDZCNUE#gid=0
Looks great man. Very clean. I would just keep an eye on boost levels once the colder weather starts to hit, and of course FBKC and FKLC while driving around (this has become a habit for me as I like to see what gas station has the best fuel ).

I would report back with another log after a 1/2 tank of fuel and several cold/hot start cycles.

Have fun.


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Old 09-28-2013, 06:39 PM   #3
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Will do.
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:01 AM   #4
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Exactly what the title says. 82 degrees today. Log taken about 15 miles after driving on the reflashed map and after checking A/F trims. Looks clean to me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...KdDZCNUE#gid=0
Hi again. Log looks good. I would recommend keeping all your logs/questions pertaining to your car in one post rather than starting a new thread. That way, anyone reading will have all the info about your car (other logs, etc).

Bill
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:13 AM   #5
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What gas do you use?
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Old 09-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #6
Chicago AJ
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Usually Costco, but this log was done with Shell's V-Power.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:38 AM   #7
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These were taken about a half a tank of gas after flashing.

Everything looks decent to me. I do have a question for Cobb (or anyone else knowledgable on the knock subject) though, I've been trying to monitor feedback knock every once in a while usually while doing normal city driving. I never catch anything but when I look at the AP I see I missed a correction of -1.4. Are these seen frequently at low loads?

I caught one (not in a log, just looked down and saw it happen) and checked the load while cruising in 4th and it was about .6 or .7. Are these normal to see almost every time I make a city trip somewhere with strictly low load driving? I've never seen a correction larger than -1.4. On the other hand, I've done 20 minutes of city driving without a single correction...


I'm confused. Anyway, here are the logs:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

Note: I see that I'm always about .7-.8psi above the target boost of 17.5. It was about 59 degrees for these logs, if my boost stays over 18.5 I will probably be switching to the 91 Octane+SF map for the winter months.

Last edited by Chicago AJ; 10-03-2013 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:13 AM   #8
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I would not worry about the single knock events under low load. They tend to happy during shifting, and just any other noise. I get that frequently. This is my fourth Subaru. Your logs look clean under wot pulls. I would just switch to a different map to address the high boost though as it gets colder or go into ATR and adjust the intake temp compensation table for WGDC so it decreases the WGDC at the corresponding temperatures.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #9
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^^^ +1 to everything he said.

Those random small corrections are nothing to worry about. They typically happen during shifting, starting from a dead stop, cruising, when making a dramatic throttle input, etc.

You do have to be careful with Costco gas. Most of those type of stations just pick up fuel from wherever they can get it for the cheapest price. Sometimes it's good quality, sometimes it's not. We generally recommend sticking to the "Top Tier" when possible.

- Chris
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:38 PM   #10
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Awesome, thanks Snoop and Chris. I've started using Mobil after the intake install and haven't seen any knock at wot, just under very low loads.
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:33 PM   #11
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Started seeing a bit of knock in WOT runs with the mobil as well as knock learning. I've since reflashed the 91 octane+SF map and have only seen knock under low load cruising/shifting/etc. Here's my first log about 30 miles after changing maps. I've noticed my A/F trims are even better than the 93 map as well. I'm probably going to run this map full time and leave myself the 2 octane buffer. Overboosting a bit, but it should be ok even when it gets colder. This log was taken at 58 degrees. Plan on getting a downpipe soon and going with the 91 octane OTS Stage 2 + SF.

To be completely honest, I don't even notice a difference between the two maps. I'd much rather have the 2 octane buffer and run less boost than see random knock in wot logs. I'm a bit above target, which is 16.5psi tapering to 13.5psi. But since there's a +/-1.5psi buffer in there, I believe I'm ok.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:40 AM   #12
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I'm confused... I was just messing around with the AP checking parameters and noticed on WOT pulls I'm over 100% on Injector Duty Cycles? Is it even possible to max out the stock injectors with a 91 Octane Stage 1+SF tune? Log was taken at 46 degrees.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:01 AM   #13
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Its possible. I live in Las Vegas and did it during the winter on another car that was stage 1.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:02 AM   #14
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I think because it has to keep up with the volume of air at high rpm.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:51 AM   #15
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If you are hitting near 100% IDC, let alone over 100% IDC, it's time for bigger injectors.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:15 PM   #16
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I've read a lot about this over a few different forums. Apparently these injectors can go close to 120-130%. The AP calculation for % isn't as accurate as a wideband. With all the people running stage 2 on stock injectors, I'm just surprised to see such high numbers at stage 1. Eric at Torqued Performance actually tunes these injectors to 110%. It'd be interesting to hear someone from Cobb chime in.

I've also read that these cars will throw IDC's over 100% stock.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:04 PM   #17
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Probably a lot to do with the colder temps. I was TP Stage 1 / Stage 2 and don't recall seeing anything over the mid to high 80's for IDC.

I know when I went for a stage 2 Protune I had to upgrade my fuel pump.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:16 PM   #18
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Yea, I'm going to check them on my way to work. It's about 65 today, I'm not too worried about it, especially if stock cars are doing it. My A/F ratio is still 11.0 at that point, so I'd assume everything will be fine.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:29 AM   #19
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It see up to 102 IDC pretty much every time I do WOT in higher gears as well AJ.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #20
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It seems on that on most of the cars they get maxed out right before redline at 6000...If you don't normally bounce your car up to redline then I would not worry. Maybe see if it does it in a taller gear when you hit full boost.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:46 PM   #21
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Well I figured I'd email Cobb and get their opinion. For some reason I got conflicting responses and I'm pretty sure the +/-8 in John's email is for STi's. I have done extensive reading the last couple days and it seems like a common problem even at stage 1. I've also read that a new pump can help but in other situations it can't help... I've also read that the calculation the AP receives for IDC is simply that, a calculation.

I'm going to check it myself using the IDC formula (Injector Pulse Width multiplied by RPM then divide that by 1200. Anyway, here are the emails. Hopefully someone from Cobb will see this soon. I don't really want to get injectors, a fuel pump, and a tune... But if I'm seeing these numbers in 46 degree weather I'm sure it can only get worse when it's colder. I did read somewhere that A/F learning will bump the IDC's down after learning enough and I do only have a couple hundred miles on this tune... (with awdorbust at over 100, that's makes over 4 people I've personally asked/known with awd being the 5th, hard to believe we're all out of injectors at stage 1).

Hey AJ!

You definitely have great questions!

Could you let me know what map you are running?

It is not abnormal to see IDCs in the levels that you see.

The different AF Learnings are MAF g/s based. It uses ABCD to adjust the MAF curve based on what g/s range you are in. So 8% adjustment in A/F Learning A will add a 8% correction from 0 - 5.60 g/s to get the ECU to see that more air is going into the motor so it will inject more fuel. A/F Learning B is 5.6 g/s to like 15 g/s. So, without getting too technical it is best to monitor A/F Learning 1 and make sure you don't go -/+ 8.

Let me know if you have any other questions! I'll be happy to help!

Thank you, John

And here's the other one:

AJ,

The Subaru platform can run out of injector pretty quickly on some cars. You may have a fuel delivery problem (pump going out, clogged fuel filter) or you may actually be out of injector.

Thank you, Eric

Last edited by Chicago AJ; 10-16-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:20 PM   #22
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I did fail to mention that I'm only 150-200 miles into this tune. I've noticed my A/F learning starting to pull fuel as it gets colder out to compensate for the denser air. I wasn't able to get my IDC's passed 95% today, hopefully in time they'll go even lower. But I've been talking with John from Cobb a little more and he said it's really not a concern.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:29 AM   #23
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When I was researching for a protune, a lot of tuners I spoke with said upgrading the fuel pump was highly recommended, some said they wouldn't even touch the car unless the fuel pump was upgraded.. I was told these cars tend to lean out top end.

Without a wideband there is really no accurate way way to know what your true afr is.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:49 PM   #24
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Interesting, I noticed last night on a stage one map 93 Oct v300 45degrees out my IDC was at 97% around 6k RPM/s This is my first Subaru, so I was naturally concerned about coming close to maxing out the injectors with no mods less the map.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:50 PM   #25
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It's not uncommon to see that on the 09+ WRXs and 08+ STis, especially during the colder months. Keep an eye on your IDC and Feedback/Fine Knock to make sure the car doesn't start to lean out on those high RPM pulls.

- Chris
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