Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday October 31, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2013, 08:57 PM   #76
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

And Sauber looks bright with a bankrolled 18 year old race driver?

Stonking race! Shame HAM got cut out due to an inch-off misjudgement. Horrible starts from both Red Bulls really spiced it up a treat along with the 2 vs 3 stop strategies. Some great racing and moves up and down the field. I wish they showed what the hell happened to cause a crash at the very first turn but I guess it was Marussia and Caterham so they don't owe them any TV coverage.

It is indeed hard to pass here which makes it slightly frustrating and interesting because people make some moves you wouldn't normally expect. I saw Rosberg make a pass in the "esses", a few bold moves into 130R and the usual hairpin shenanigans. Wish Webbo would have got the win but hey, I had everyone on the podium in fantasy so I'm happy either way.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 09:21 PM   #77
Bottom Feeder
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2808
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Occupied Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Trying to pass someone who can make their car really wide.
I don't recall him complaining about it. That was his 'teammate', zee German.
Bottom Feeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 06:46 AM   #78
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Webber shanked out of what would have been another slam-dunk win by his "team."

Good luck, Ricciardo.

Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 08:15 AM   #79
Andor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 251890
Join Date: Jul 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Vehicle:
2007 STI
UGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
I know you obviously hate Lotus since you love to point out the rumors of their finances, but how is that a downgrade from where he is? When was the last time Sauber was ahead of Lotus / Renault in the championship?
Found this today on GPupdate.net

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3...is-our-choice/

Quote:
Lotus team boss Eric Boullier has revealed that Nico Hülkenberg is his first choice to partner Romain Grosjean for the 2014 season, but admits the Enstone-based outfit's finances need to be settled before it can commit to signing both drivers.
Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 10:09 AM   #80
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
Webber shanked out of what would have been another slam-dunk win by his "team."

Good luck, Ricciardo.

Webber's my #1 driver but I disagree. If he had come out of the 1st corner in 1st place, it would have been a different story. Instead he ended up behind Grosjean and spent the first stint chasing him. Mark is already inherently harder on his tires than Sebastian so to have him fighting Grosjean while Seb hangs back saving his tires and playing the long game made it pretty obvious from the beginning that he was going to be able to go longer which made it a pretty clear 2 vs 3 stop split strategy.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:32 AM   #81
Bottom Feeder
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2808
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Occupied Virginia
Default

I thought Webber was known for being easier on his tires that most? Maybe that was back in the Bridgestone days. Looked to me like Webber and Vettel were not trying to make any moves With Grosjean or each other in the first stint so their tire situation should have been similar.

I'd like to do the math if given the data but it still seems like bringing him in on that last stop was way more 'risky' and quite pointless. I think there was the risk he would beat Vettel that way. We can't have that, can we!

Last edited by Bottom Feeder; 10-14-2013 at 11:39 AM.
Bottom Feeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:37 AM   #82
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Webber's my #1 driver but I disagree. If he had come out of the 1st corner in 1st place, it would have been a different story. Instead he ended up behind Grosjean and spent the first stint chasing him. Mark is already inherently harder on his tires than Sebastian so to have him fighting Grosjean while Seb hangs back saving his tires and playing the long game made it pretty obvious from the beginning that he was going to be able to go longer which made it a pretty clear 2 vs 3 stop split strategy.
Webbo could go long enough for a 2 stopper, even being harder on the tires. There was no need to change to a three. By going with 3, the only chance Webbo has for the win is to catch and pass his teammate on fresher tires. We all know that was never going to happen.

Clearly their goal was to get Seb ahead of Webbo. Pit Seb early and have him run a 3 stop if it was a legitimate strategy.

Or keep them on the same strategy, and let Mark see if he can find his way by the Grosjean. And see if Seb can get by Mark.

Come on, they clearly knew it was going to work out in Sebs favor.

Any strategy that purposely puts you BEHIND the fastest guy on the grid is BS.
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:45 AM   #83
Rokkit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84181
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
NASA #530 GTS2

Default

Hey from a team's view - it's still 1-2 Red Bull. Might tick off Webbo, but he's out next season anyway. If it was me making team decisions I would of done the same. Makes no sense to have Webbo actually finish ahead of Vettel and no need to take high risk battles to win the race... I mean I love Webbo and it sucks, but that's that /shrug.
Rokkit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 11:59 AM   #84
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 E46, N54 E82,
N55 E84, AKA REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkit View Post
Hey from a team's view - it's still 1-2 Red Bull. Might tick off Webbo, but he's out next season anyway. If it was me making team decisions I would of done the same. Makes no sense to have Webbo actually finish ahead of Vettel and no need to take high risk battles to win the race... I mean I love Webbo and it sucks, but that's that /shrug.
I agree. It's clear what they were doing, and it makes sense. Will caught it right away. Mark was the "sacrificial lamb".

But don't act like the decision to put Mark on the 3er was to give him the best chance to win. It's a hard, hard track to pass on. And don't say he didn't win b/c he couldn't get by Grosjean fast enough. Seb couldn't get by Mark on track, so they found another way.

They'd have let Mark attempt to pass Seb if he had caught him at the end anyway?
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 12:06 PM   #85
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottom Feeder View Post
I thought Webber was known for being easier on his tires that most? Maybe that was back in the Bridgestone days. Looked to me like Webber and Vettel were not trying to make any moves With Grosjean or each other in the first stint so their tire situation should have been similar.

I'd like to do the math if given the data but it still seems like bringing him in on that last stop was way more 'risky' and quite pointless. I think there was the risk he would beat Vettel that way. We can't have that, can we!
Wat? Webber is well known to be harder on his tires than Seb and is usually one of the first to pit in any given race. He will almost always be on the higher of the 2 possible strategies at any given race as well:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistic...egy-pit-stops/

If it's a 1 vs 2 stop, he's probably doing 2. A 2 vs 3 stop is a 3, 3 vs 4 is 4, etc. That's a general trend so it shouldn't be much of a surprise how things turned out in Japan:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/10/1...d-pit-stops-2/

I'm not saying there was no plan for Seb to win, but Mark's driving played right into that plan and it was almost inevitable after the start. They would have told Mark to hold station at the end since team orders come into effect after the last pit stop at Red Bull. That is, if they thought there would be any chance Mark would listen.
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #86
Rokkit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84181
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
NASA #530 GTS2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
I agree. It's clear what they were doing, and it makes sense. Will caught it right away. Mark was the "sacrificial lamb".

But don't act like the decision to put Mark on the 3er was to give him the best chance to win. It's a hard, hard track to pass on. And don't say he didn't win b/c he couldn't get by Grosjean fast enough. Seb couldn't get by Mark on track, so they found another way.

They'd have let Mark attempt to pass Seb if he had caught him at the end anyway?
Multi 21, errr, Multi 12?
Rokkit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 02:16 PM   #87
benjam83
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 136400
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Central Illinois
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Webber's my #1 driver but I disagree. If he had come out of the 1st corner in 1st place, it would have been a different story. Instead he ended up behind Grosjean and spent the first stint chasing him. Mark is already inherently harder on his tires than Sebastian so to have him fighting Grosjean while Seb hangs back saving his tires and playing the long game made it pretty obvious from the beginning that he was going to be able to go longer which made it a pretty clear 2 vs 3 stop split strategy.
I don't think that's what he was talking about. More like RB putting Mark on a strategy that had a snowball's chance of netting a win.
benjam83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #88
Bottom Feeder
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2808
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Occupied Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkit View Post
Hey from a team's view - it's still 1-2 Red Bull. Might tick off Webbo, but he's out next season anyway. If it was me making team decisions I would of done the same. Makes no sense to have Webbo actually finish ahead of Vettel and no need to take high risk battles to win the race... I mean I love Webbo and it sucks, but that's that /shrug.
But really, why not 'let' Webber win? It still would have been a Red Bull 1-2 finish (what they say is really most important, right?) and Vettel is miles ahead in the championship anyway, so why not? Throwing Mark a bone would have gone a long way with positive Red Bull PR but it's obvious that they simply don't give a **** about that OR Webber at this point. Hell, even Horner almost looks like he feels guilty when talking to the press knowing that everyone has them figured out and don't believe a word he says nowadays.

Webber not pitting would have almost certainly given Red Bull a 1-2 finish. Webber pitting would give Red Bull a 1-3 finish, maybe a 1-2 if he could get past Grosjean which he managed to do. There was less risk to team points but more risk to Vettel's points if they left Webber out there which Red Bull simply can't allow. Do they think we don't notice this stuff?
Bottom Feeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 04:27 PM   #89
Tim_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 304128
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottom Feeder View Post
But really, why not 'let' Webber win? It still would have been a Red Bull 1-2 finish
Are you forgetting that Grosjean actually led the beginning of the race with Webber in tow? RBR successfully managed to get him in front of Romain since apparently he was unable to do so in his first stint.

It's not as if Webber had a blinding start and led the whole race only for RBR to ruin it for him.
Tim_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 05:58 PM   #90
Himynameisgreg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 200420
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
'08 DGM 2.5i Sedan
'05 AW STI Track Car

Default

All of his pits were well executed as well. I was waiting for a sticky right rear or something to get him out of the way, but they were all on point.

Ted was saying how a two vs three stop strategy were pretty similar at this track, around 5-6 seconds more for a three stop, IIRC. Would have been pretty close with Seb at the end had he gotten past Grosjean within a lap or two.
Himynameisgreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #91
ProfessWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 323379
Join Date: Jun 2012
Vehicle:
06 WRX

Default

Fact is RBR made the right call. Just happened to be at webbers expense.
ProfessWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 12:36 AM   #92
Keif
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 107302
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Default

Keif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.